I didn't really discuss value but I don't think Lee would necessarily come cheap. In a vacuum, I could understand how Houston would prefer him over Gibson or Asik or perhaps even both. On pure talent and size, I probably prefer either Gibson or Asik -- but I don't have a great feel for these types of things. This is besides the real issue to an extent. I don't see why the deal would get done, looking at the Bulls this year. Gibson is now consistently contributing off the bench and will be great in the playoffs. You can't make the same prediction for Lee (he may or may not) so there is more uncertainty. The thing that surprised me watching Lee is that he is more of the player you hope to develop into an above-average legitimate starter -- he's not a stopgap you use for a couple of seasons. I'm not certain Lee is a great fit for where the Bulls are at, unless you can get him purely for draft picks, and I don't think you can.
Courtney Lee got starters minutes with the Nets, and basically could have taken all the shots he wanted, handled the ball all he wanted, etc. The team won 12 games. Who would you rather have starting for us? Player A 33.5 MPG, .436 FG, .338 3pt, 3.5 RPG, 1.7 APG, 1.3 SPG, 12.5 PPG (12.8 PER) or Player B 32.2 MPG, .508 FG, .259 3pt, 3.7 RPG, 2.2 APG, 1.7 SPG, 13.7 PPG (16.1 PER)
Yeah, I think that re-frames my point. We shouldn't expect Lee to take minutes from Ronnie Brewer. I was aiming a little more nuanced -- that I don't expect Thibodeau would give Lee minutes because of his inexperience, and I don't think he would necessarily displace Bogans, as bad as Bogans has been. I think there is an awfully good chance Lee would come here and get spot minutes. So if you're not ready to treat Lee as a long-term project with an eye toward next year for a larger role, then you reconsider the trade.
Boo! Why didn't you watch the game before, where he came off the bench and dropped a solid 23 points in 28 minutes? That being said, I'm surprised he looked so lost. Players, especially young ones, have bad games, but I don't view Lee as a really inexperienced player. In fact, he's got lots of game experience, and a reputation as a stout defender. Who was he guarding most of the time?
Ive heard about (and seen in a few games) Lee's lostness. I still dont think we pull the trigger on any trade that has us giving up Asik, hell even gibson. But I dont see a lot of upgrades out there that are attainable
I'm taping the Rockets-Nuggets game tonight. Every one can have a bad game, right? And Lee was guarding Jason Terry who is not an easy cover. Let see if it was an aberration.
For the record, I don't actually think it should take Asik or Gibson to get him. Terry didn't really have a good night, by the looks of things (2-7 shooting, 7 points, 7 assists and 4 TOs).
Yeah, it was good to catch Lee on the best game of his career. The Nuggets came out on fire and then let up off the gas pedal and the Rockets ran them out of the building. Lee hit 5-7 from three, but we already knew he was capable of that. Denver wasn't guarding anyone and Lee went to work being consistently left open on the wing -- that's what people who shoot over 40% from the three are capable of. Right now, the Bulls only have one of those players and it would certainly be nice to have more. As far as the differences between this game and the last, Lee brought a lot more decisiveness on both offense and defense. But it's a little bit hard to compare Lee's play between the two games because the Nugz have mailed it in for the season, and the Mavs are playing high-energy ball. Lee made one brilliant defensive play where he came from the top of the key all the way to the wing to double and block a Carmelo Anthony jumper. That's the type of play that will make someone's defensive reputation, so I can understand why people say Lee is a good defender. He also made one nice steal where a big man jumped in the paint, ran out of options and tried to toss it back to a guard, and one cheapish -- non-optimal -- steal from overplaying the passing lanes. I still see Lee's defense as being very inconsistent. There were a couple of times where a big man had the ball in the paint and Lee looked in, and you know he was thinking "I need to double down" but didn't. I swear to God I heard the ghost of Tom Thibodeau scream "Omer!" at those moments. Offensively Lee is still a mixed bag too. He tried a wide open teardrop in the paint after he quite nicely broke his man off the dribble and it was no where close to going in. Then on successive plays he got the ball deep, deep in the lane and passed it out to a teammate for a jumper. The announcers said something like: "Our guards are now over penetrating," which doesn't make any sense to me. If you're 6'5 and have driven the ball right next to the basket you have to be able to at least force up a layup or jump into a big and draw a foul. Those would be three second calls in our offense. Lee was also contained whenever he had a man on him who was guarding him close, which didn't happen very often because it was the Nuggets. And even though I say Lee was much more decisive, he still had that rookie hickup -- the I can't believe I have the ball in my hands pause -- a couple of times when the ball was swung and he needed to make an instantaneous pass. On the plus side, I looked closely to see how Lee would feed the paint because we know how Korver has struggled with this at times. There was one play where Battier was posting up -- Scola really doesn't play from the post -- and Lee completed one of those nice one-handed bounce passes with spin where the ball cuts back into the hands of a post player. I don't want to make too much of this because again the Nugz weren't really playing defense but still it was a good sign. At the end of the day, I don't see all that much revision to my earlier take. I wish Lee had more experience so that the Bulls could be comfortable that he would play consistently from game one. I'm still of the opinion that most likely he wouldn't displace Bogans in the starting lineup and that his primary impact might be felt in later seasons. I still think he may be expensive, and that the Rockets may ask for both Asik and Gibson, although I don't have a great feel for this. Edit: And I still think Battier would be a cheaper, more likely to succeed acquisition to play the wing. I lurve me his game.
I am beginning to think with the recent play of Bogans and with Noah coming back, the Bulls wont make a major trade for a SG. That doesnt mean they wont make a minor one, for added depth. Look at the off season to address the SG position.
I agree. I'm ready to give Bogans props for his last couple of games. I think something happens with Anthony Parker for a little added depth. I'll keep talking Battier up too, but I haven't heard his name ever linked to the Bulls.
Why do you hate America? Yeah I can't seem to make a trade work that wouldn't involve giving up Bogans and Thomas. I still think that's a trade you make: Battier for Bogans, Thomas, Scalabrine, J.J. and a protected first round pick. I think Thomas could be of use playing the post in the playoffs but so could Battier. In the past few games I saw him defend Anthony and Dirk. You toss him out anywhere and he contributes. Battier is on the last year of a deal with the Rockets and they're building toward the future, so it shouldn't be that difficult in terms of value to acquire him, even though it's not easy to work with the salaries. I also disagree with your assertion about a "long term solution." Battier is only 32 and I'd guess he has at least three more seasons left in him if the Bulls plan on re-signing him.
SST, dont watch much of Hst, does battier play SG? I always thought of him more as a SF. Nice player! Plays both ends of the court.
Battier looks like he's playing small forward with spot minutes at power forward. The Rockets are overloaded with developing talent at point guard and shooting guard with Kevin Martin, Kyle Lowry, Aaron Brooks and Courtney Lee all deserving developmental minutes. Ish Smith has talent too and he's in the D-League. Meanwhile the Rockets don't have much going on in terms of big men. Brad Miller's game has fallen off a good deal and Chuck Hayes is well . . . Chuck Hayes. Scola provides good minutes but he's not a post player either. So, the Rockets call on Battier to provide an inside presence as best as he can. I think the Bulls do the reverse -- play Battier slightly out of position at shooting guard. It's not a great fit but I think it's the way to go. The Bulls are trying to set themselves up for match ups with Ray Allen, Dwyane Wade, Jason Richardson, Joe Johnson and Landry Fields, and if the Bulls do get to the finals, Kobe Bryant and Manu Ginoboli. I think Battier plays all of those players well even if he'd struggle with the Monte Ellis' of the world. On offense, Battier is most effective as a sport up three point shooter so he has the range to play the position. And he seems to handle well enough to do the job. Deng and Noah also can help beat presses if it comes to that.
Drafted in the Brown,Chandler, Gasol, Curry year, right? Long time ago, already. Well, 32 isn't bad, but for a big guy to play SG? That's what I was thinking about in terms of his age. Even Jordan when he came back couldn't play SG. Even Magic came back as a SF when he was player coach for LA, right? I agree with fit. He could be a great fit for the team we have. And we would be Duke-West/Utah-East. But still expensive for a not very long term solution at SG. And yes, I hate America, not for what it is, but for what it should be, but isn't.
In the game notes to the Rockets' loss to the 76ers: At this time of year you assume something is happening.
Abnormal fluid in the lungs? There's some sort of weird, low-grade pneumonia going around. Something like 15 kids at the local elementary school have had it. It's a little odd ain't it? But I haven't found any good stats to show if there's increased incidence this year. Or, maybe a trade.
