First Sheed, then ZBo, now Aldridge...

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by KingSpeed, Nov 29, 2012.

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  1. Haakzilla

    Haakzilla Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
    Haakzilla, Nov 30, 2012
    #101
  2. RR7

    RR7 Well-Known Member

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    My thoughts on Aldridge tie in to the whose team is this thread, where I think going forward, personally, it's Lillard's team, and you do what you can to build around him, finding the right pieces to compliment him. Whether that is Aldridge, I don't know for sure, but the holes in his gam epeople want to point out, I feel ok with as our #2 option. I'd trade him to upgrade as a whole. I'd trade anyone. But I don't worry about trading him because he's not going to "lead us", because I think we already have someone who will. I know he CAN do more, but feel ok with an 18 and 8 PF if we have aa PG who can get us 19 and 6 as a rookie, a SG who can give us 17/2/2, and a SF who acn get us 18/6/3. I don't think you NEED Aldridge to give you 26/10.
     
    RR7, Nov 30, 2012
    #102
  3. KeepOnRollin

    KeepOnRollin Well-Known Member

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    The question is does that fall on LMA or does it fall on the coach? I think both is probably the best answer but for all Nate's faults he did get LMA to play inside last year even though LMA didn't care for it much.
     
    KeepOnRollin, Nov 30, 2012
    #103
  4. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    If you think that measures of how "good" a big man (PF or C) is, then imo there are 4 parts. In rough terms, use PER for total offense, DRtg for Defense, eFG% for shooting proficiency and TRB for rebounding. Here are the forwards and centers that have higher rebounding percentages, higher eFG%, higher PERs AND lower Defensive Ratings. Assuming LMA qualified for this list (sorted by cumulative win shares), he'd be
    tied for #32 with Brandon Wright.

    Edit: If someone could show me how to clean up the formatting for these tables, I'd appreciate it.

    Rk Player Season Age Tm FG% 3P% FT% TR% DRtg PER eFG%WS
    1 Kevin Durant 2012-13 24 OKC .505 .441 .899 13.7 98 27.7 .553 3.6
    2 Tim Duncan 2012-13 36 SAS .529 .667 .760 18.3 94 27.4 .534 2.6
    3 Marc Gasol 2012-13 28 MEM .507 .000 .890 11.0 102 20.7 .507 2.5
    4 Tyson Chandler 2012-13 30 NYK .718 .793 16.7 104 22.3 .718 2.4
    5 Chris Bosh 2012-13 28 MIA .560 .167 .862 14.8 106 24.5 .566 2.3
    6 Anders Varejao 2012-13 30 CLE .525 .000 .778 24.8 104 23.9 .525 2.2
    7 Serge Ibaka 2012-13 23 OKC .595 .273 .881 14.2 101 20.6 .604 2.1
    8 Joakim Noah 2012-13 27 CHI .479 .000 .778 14.6 97 18.8 .479 2.0
    9 C Anthony 2012-13 28 NYK .469 .451 .798 11.5 106 24.1 .527 1.9
    10 Kenneth Faried 2012-13 23 DEN .565 .576 19.9 103 21.0 .565 1.9
    11 Dwight Howard 2012-13 27 LAL .595 .478 16.1 96 20.8 .595 1.9
    12 Al Jefferson 2012-13 28 UTA .474 .250 .778 18.5 100 21.1 .476 1.8
    13 Carl Landry 2012-13 29 GSW .579 .000 .776 14.9 105 21.4 .579 1.8
    14 Zach Randolph 2012-13 31 MEM .497 .000 .742 21.4 99 19.9 .497 1.8
    15 David Lee 2012-13 29 GSW .493 .000 .759 16.2 102 18.1 .493 1.6
    16 Nicolas Batum 2012-13 24 POR .449 .377 .811 9.0 108 18.7 .546 1.5
    17 Al Horford 2012-13 26 ATL .538 .513 14.9 99 19.0 .538 1.5
    18 Brook Lopez 2012-13 24 BRK .534 .638 13.2 99 24.0 .534 1.5
    19 Andrei Kirilenko 2012-13 31 MIN .508 .375 .714 12.1 100 18.4 .547 1.4
    20 Paul Millsap 2012-13 27 UTA .458 .526 .726 15.6 103 18.5 .486 1.4
    21 Tiago Splitter 2012-13 28 SAS .582 .741 13.6 101 20.8 .582 1.4
    22 Greg Monroe 2012-13 22 DET .484 .709 16.2 100 19.9 .484 1.3
    23 Kevin Garnett 2012-13 36 BOS .516 .000 .800 15.8 104 20.2 .516 1.2
    24 DeAndre Jordan 2012-13 24 LAC .609 .467 16.2 100 18.6 .609 1.2
    25 Paul Pierce 2012-13 35 BOS .421 .412 .835 10.1 105 19.1 .484 1.2
    26 Blake Griffin 2012-13 23 LAC .495 .000 .610 15.8 100 18.1 .495 1.1
    27 J.J. Hickson 2012-13 24 POR .532 .000 .591 22.5 107 18.9 .532 1.0
    28 JaVale McGee 2012-13 25 DEN .541 .636 17.0 103 23.1 .541 1.0
    29 Ed Davis 2012-13 23 TOR .578 .700 19.8 104 19.9 .578 0.9
    30 A Drummond 2012-13 19 DET .558 1.00 .400 20.0 98 19.8 .565 0.9
    31 Luis Scola 2012-13 32 PHO .476 .333 .838 14.8 107 18.1 .478 0.9
    32 Brandan Wright 2012-13 25 DAL .647 .636 10.7 105 22.2 .647 0.8
    33 DeMarre Carroll 2012-13 26 UTA .460 .200 .769 11.1 104 19.7 .480 0.7
    34 Anthony Davis 2012-13 19 NOH .493 .000 .839 17.5 104 26.4 .493 0.7
    35 Greg Smith 2012-13 22 HOU .576 .813 16.9 105 21.6 .576 0.7
    36 Jermaine O'Neal 2012-13 34 PHO .525 .857 16.4 102 19.4 .525 0.6
    37 Nene Hilario 2012-13 30 WAS .500 .789 10.0 102 23.4 .500 0.4
    38 ChVillanueva 2012-13 28 DET .487 .455 .143 13.3 104 23.9 .615 0.3
    39 John Henson 2012-13 22 MIL .489 .000 .455 17.1 103 18.2 .489 0.2
     
    BrianFromWA, Nov 30, 2012
    #104
  5. blue9

    blue9 Well-Known Member

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    STOMP wrote: "...but you're up against the opinions of those who do this professionally."

    This is another "argument" that I absolutely hate. It's up there with "PER" and "All-Star".

    Do you REALLY think that these "professionals", who watch a fraction of Blazer games that Blazer FANS watch, know more than an intelligent Blazer fan? They may have more general basketball knowledge, but I sincerely doubt they are more knowledgeable about the BLAZERS. Until the Blazers are a Top 6 team in the league these pundits are watching fewer than 10 Blazer games per season - their opinions aren't worth crap to me. These are the guys that are still trumpeting Nate McMillan as a defensive coach, and the guys who are saying that LMA is one of the best jump shooting PFs in the league. That right there tells you that these guys DO NOT know much about the Blazers. They largely pick up their "knowledge" from the local beat writers...do you think that Quick and Canzano are brimming with basketball knowledge?

    As for the coaches - they watch fewer games than the pundits. They get scouting videos (highlights) and look at stats and W/L record. They see the Blazers anywhere between 2 and 4 times a season. And let's face it - there are a lot of POOR coaches in the NBA. I mean, even our own Terry Stotts thinks that LMA is similar to Dirk! This should give you an idea of how well informed the coaches are when they're making their choices. And lastly, picking all-stars has got to be their lowest priority - they have their own teams to worry about, they aren't putting in time and research to see who really deserves to be named.
     
    blue9, Nov 30, 2012
    #105
  6. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    Conversely, when I did the same exercise with LMA's stats from last year (eFG%, TRB%, PER and DRtg), the list looked like this:

    LBJ, Durant, Griffin, Bynum, Howard, LMA, Greg Monroe.
     
    BrianFromWA, Nov 30, 2012
    #106
  7. Haakzilla

    Haakzilla Well-Known Member

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    ...ask "jlprk", he loves formatting tables!
     
    Haakzilla, Nov 30, 2012
    #107
  8. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    And from 2010-11, the list was like this:


    LBJ, Durant, Gasol, Howard, LMA, Dirk, Z-Bo, Duncan, Griffin, Bynum.

    To recap, he went from #5 of 10 in this category in 2010-11 (the All-NBA 3rd Team year) to #5 of 7 (All-Star year) in 2011-12, to #32 of 39 this year
     
    BrianFromWA, Nov 30, 2012
    #108
  9. HailBlazers

    HailBlazers RipCity

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    Gee Wonder Why
     
    HailBlazers, Nov 30, 2012
    #109
  10. STOMP

    STOMP mere fan

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    you are kidding only your self. First, obviously many intelligent Blazer fans disagree with you on Aldridge... you're out on a lonely limb claiming to be representing mainstream thinking here. And yeah... NBA coaches generally know a hell of a lot more about the league and it's players then us fans. You might absolutely hate this with all your heart, but that doesn't matter even a little.

    obviously you're not going to be budged so I'm also going to have to Agree to completely Disagree

    STOMP
     
    STOMP, Nov 30, 2012
    #110
  11. noknobs

    noknobs Well-Known Member

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    Despite the fact his offseason was used to rehab and his coach is using him on the outside more, Aldridge is only averaging 1.3ppg less and .6 rpg less than last year. He's also averaging .6 apg more and .4 bpg more than last year. Sure he's not playing as well, but I think the difference is getting blown out of proportion.

    But let's say you're right and last year was completely different. You're wrong about not seeing this argument.

    Let's move Aldridge

    Trade LMA NOW!!! Sign Hickson to a MAX deal pronto!

    Batum and Aldridge.....

    Yet now people point to last year and say, well if he played like that I wouldn't have a problem... same shit, different year. Haters gotta hate.
     
    noknobs, Nov 30, 2012
    #111
  12. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    It's a repeat of earlier posts, but from his words he's:

    1) Lost a step
    2) doesn't like going inside
    3) in an offense where the vast majority of his shots are the least efficient shot in basketball

    the stats show he's right. He's not going inside, he's shooting a similar % on his jumpers (i.e., the hip's not affecting him that much) but shooting WAY more of them and getting about 1/3 of the tips and dunks he usually gets. :dunno:
     
    BrianFromWA, Nov 30, 2012
    #112
  13. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    Are you really using a) a spoof of a Kingspeed post, b) Mixum, and c) Shooter to build up the opposition point?
     
    BrianFromWA, Nov 30, 2012
    #113
  14. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    to your point, though...I'm definitely bringing up the 1.3 ppg less. For as inefficiently as he's shooting, I wish he'd take way fewer shots. When 5 of every 6 is a long-range 2pt jumper (the most inefficient in the sport) then that shows something. His usage rating is higher than ever, for someone who's PER is the worst since his rookie year.

    I understand that he's coming off an injury. If so, he shouldn't be ridden into the ground shooting inefficient jumpers at a low percentage and at the highest usage rate of his career. Not if you want to win, anyway.
     
    BrianFromWA, Nov 30, 2012
    #114
  15. noknobs

    noknobs Well-Known Member

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    If you actually read the threads, a lot of the same stuff was being said then... That's the only point I'm making.
     
    noknobs, Nov 30, 2012
    #115
  16. KeepOnRollin

    KeepOnRollin Well-Known Member

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    Our points per game and possessions per game are way up this year. So if you normalize the two years to account for that then his points and rebounds are not just barely down.
     
    KeepOnRollin, Nov 30, 2012
    #116
  17. RR7

    RR7 Well-Known Member

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    It seems, though, that most of your issue comes with coaching, not with LMA. With his role and the way he performs it.
     
    RR7, Nov 30, 2012
    #117
  18. STOMP

    STOMP mere fan

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    you're right on the 2nd vs 3rd team, but I did correctly note that he received the honor the year prior

    good grief Brian. He was dominant and that honor was a reflection of that. Being an inconvenient fact for your argument, doesn't make it irrelevant

    STOMP
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2012
    STOMP, Nov 30, 2012
    #118
  19. HailBlazers

    HailBlazers RipCity

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    Rock and hard place when considering our bench.
     
    HailBlazers, Nov 30, 2012
    #119
  20. noknobs

    noknobs Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree. The way the roster is constructed at present though I'm not entirely sure they want to win this year.
     
    noknobs, Nov 30, 2012
    #120
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