Bogus! FLU SHOTS

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by MARIS61, Oct 11, 2018.

  1. jonnyboy

    jonnyboy Well-Known Member

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    Opting out of a flu shot doesn't make one a "conspiracy theorist". It just means they've weighed the facts on both sides and decided it's not worth getting poked this year. Maybe that changes with age and weakened immune response, many people don't start getting them until they're older.

    I think the real conspiracy theory is the idea that a few people not getting the flu shot is going to cause some mass pandemic.
     
  2. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    No one is saying that.

    No one.
     
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  3. calvin natt

    calvin natt Confeve

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    Nobody said that. “A few people” and “mass pandemic”. Nope. And if you weigh facts it’s an easy decision.
     
  4. calvin natt

    calvin natt Confeve

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    It makes one a conspiracy theorist because it would mean you think the CDC and millions of physicians and scientists are lying to the public. Hence, a big conspiracy.
     
  5. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    Here is an interesting article from last month. It's long but worth reading.

    China Has Withheld Samples of a Dangerous Flu Virus

    Despite an international agreement, U.S. health authorities still have not received H7N9 avian flu specimens from their Chinese counterparts.

    For over a year, the Chinese government has withheld lab samples of a rapidly evolving influenza virus from the United States — specimens needed to develop vaccines and treatments, according to federal health officials.

    Despite persistent requests from government officials and research institutions, China has not provided samples of the dangerous virus, a type of bird flu called H7N9. In the past, such exchanges have been mostly routine under rules established by the World Health Organization.

    Now, as the United States and China spar over trade, some scientists worry that the vital exchange of medical supplies and information could slow, hampering preparedness for the next biological threat.

    The scenario is “unlike shortages in aluminum and soybeans,” said Dr. Michael Callahan, an infectious disease specialist at Harvard Medical School.

    “Jeopardizing U.S. access to foreign pathogens and therapies to counter them undermines our nation’s ability to protect against infections which can spread globally within days.”

    Experts concur that the world’s next global pandemic will likely come from a repeat offender: the flu. The H7N9 virus is one candidate.

    Since taking root in China in 2013, the virus has spread through poultry farms, evolving into a highly pathogenic strain that can infect humans. It has killed 40 percent of its victims.

    If this strain were to become highly contagious among humans, seasonal flu vaccines would provide little to no protection. Americans have virtually no immunity.

    “Pandemic influenza spreads faster than anything else,” said Rick A. Bright, the director of Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority, an agency within the Department of Health and Human Services that oversees vaccine development. “There’s nothing to hold it back or slow it down. Every minute counts.”

    Under an agreement established by the World Health Organization, participating countries must transfer influenza samples with pandemic potential to designated research centers “in a timely manner.”

    That process — involving paperwork, approval through several agencies and a licensed carrier — normally takes several months, according to Dr. Larry Kerr, the director of pandemics and emerging threats at the Department of Health and Human Services.

    But more than one year after a devastating wave of H7N9 infections in Asia — 766 cases were reported, almost all in China — the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is still waiting for several viral samples, the National Security Council and the W.H.O. confirmed.

    Scientists at the Department of Agriculture have had such difficulty obtaining flu samples from China that they have stopped requesting them altogether, according to a government official who spoke anonymously because he was not authorized to discuss the matter.

    At least four research institutions have relied upon a small group of H7N9 samples from cases in Taiwan and Hong Kong. (All four asked not to be identified for fear of further straining ties.)

    The Chinese embassy in Washington did not respond to multiple requests for comment. The Chinese Center For Disease Control and Prevention also did not reply to inquiries regarding the transfer.

    When the H7N9 virus first appeared in China, researchers say the Chinese government at first provided timely information. But communication has gradually worsened.

    Yet a sudden spike in infections during the 2016-2017 outbreak wave demands intense research, said scientists aiming to understand the virus’ evolution.

    Recent trade tensions could worsen the problem.

    The Office of the United States Trade Representative in April released a proposed list of products to be targeted for tariffs — including pharmaceutical products such as vaccines, medicines and medical devices.

    So far, none of those medical products have landed on the final tariff lists. But lower-level trade negotiations with China concluded on Thursday with few signs of progress, increasing the likelihood of additional tariffs.

    The United States relies on China not only for H7N9 influenza samples but for medical supplies, such as plastic drip mechanisms for intravenous saline, as well as ingredients for certain oncology and anesthesia drugs. Some of these are delivered through a just-in-time production model; there are no stockpiles, which could prove dangerous if the supply was disrupted, health officials said.

    Scientists believe top commerce officials in both governments view the viral samples much like any other laboratory product, and may be unfamiliar with their vital role in global security.

    “Countries don’t own their viral samples any more than they own the birds in their skies,” said Andrew C. Weber, who oversaw biological defense programs at the Pentagon during the Obama administration.

    hid the 2002 outbreak of severe acute respiratory syndrome, or SARS, for four months and then kept the findings of its research private. Some provinces withheld information about cases even from the central government in Beijing.

    In 2005, Chinese authorities insisted an H5N1 influenza outbreak was contained, contradicting University of Hong Kong scientists who offered evidence that it was expanding. Those authorities hesitated to share viral samples from infected wild birds with the international community, concealing the scope to avoid a hit to their vast poultry industry.

    Indonesia followed suit, refusing in 2007 to share specimens of H5N1 with the United States and United Kingdom, arguing that the countries would use the samples to develop a vaccine that Indonesians could not afford.

    Those episodes led to the 2011 development of the W.H.O.’s Pandemic Influenza Preparedness Framework, which aims to promote sample exchanges as well as developing countries’ access to vaccines.

    But for countries like China, bearing the burden of a novel virus is paradoxical. Outbreaks are expensive — the wave of H7N9 infections in 2013 alone cost China more than $6 billion, according to the United Nations — but they can provide a head-start in developing valuable treatments.

    “In a sense, China has made lemonade from lemons — converting the problem of global infectious disease threats into lifesaving and valuable commodities,” Dr. Callahan said.

    And now, as the H7N9 virus evolves, United States authorities worry that the Chinese have obfuscated the scale and features of this outbreak.

    The Chinese government has refused to share clinical data from infected patients, according to scientists, and claims to have all but eradicated H7N9 through a single poultry vaccination campaign.

    “Influenza is going to do what it does best, which is mutate,” Dr. Kerr said.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/27/health/china-flu-virus-samples.html
     
  6. jonnyboy

    jonnyboy Well-Known Member

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    I guess I just don't understand the justification for calling people morons and consporacy theorists if they don't get a flu shot then, it seems a tad bit extreme.
     
  7. UncleCliffy'sDaddy

    UncleCliffy'sDaddy We're all Bozos on this bus.

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    While getting a flu shot is “probably” a smart thing, this is still America and people get to make a choice, regardless of what others might think. As I stated earlier, I hadn’t had a flu shot in at least 40 years. Yet I only got the flu once in all that time. Too, I very seldom came down with a cold. What worked for me (as far as I can figure) was above average hygiene habits. I worked for 35 years in the wastewater treatment field and was a fanatic about washing my hands, on and off the job. Until I retired I was a cigarette smoker (in a place where only 2 of the 60 employees smoked). So I thoroughly washed my hands every single time I had a smoke so as to reduce the noxious odor and the discomfort it caused my coworkers.

    When I retired, I spent a year volunteering at a local hospital. They pushed extremely hard for employees and volunteers to get flu shots. While I understood their reasoning, I still refused because I felt my precautions were effective (or even improved with all the hand sanitizing stations spread throughout the hospital). The supreme irony is that I went to my GP last December for a quick check up and came down with a brutal case of the flu within 48 hours. The waiting room was full of sick people who should have stayed home. These idiots are a bigger problem than the folks who don’t get vaccinations because they are out spreading a crud that a doctor cannot cure. Anyway..........

    My son and granddaughter (who live with us) both came down with the flu thanks to me. The only one in the household who didn’t get it was my wife.....who had had a flu shot. That fact, along with the fact that I am 64 years old (and not getting any younger) is why I finally broke down and got a shot this year. I’m still confident that I could have probably held it at bay with my usual routines but screw it. I don’t want to ever feel that shitty again....but again, this is America and everyone gets to choose. And if the pro vaccine folks don’t like that American (and human) right, then fuck ‘em.......
     
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  8. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko Staff Member Global Moderator

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    See the first post in this thread.

    barfo
     
  9. jonnyboy

    jonnyboy Well-Known Member

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    I never said anyone was lying about anything. You are just pretending I said that so you can justify throwing around the label of conspiracy theorist. I'm just saying flu shots shouldn't be mandatory.
     
  10. Propagandist

    Propagandist Well-Known Member

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    I'm with you but you must admit what we "know" can change as we become more advanced. A lot of science from years back seems silly now. That being said, all those weirdos that don't understand how vaccines work and yet pretend that they have these tragic side effects need to focus less on the delivery method and more on how your immune system works. It is cool as shit and should be mandatory education.

    All of my kids have been vaccinated etc etc and they often get flu shots. But I don't ever, not once. Not because I'm opposed it (obviously), but because I have only had the flu one time in my life. I believe in vaccines but why introduce something into my immune system for essentially no reason? However! If I lived with an elderly person or less robust children, I would, no doubt, to protect them.

    Instead of making it mandatory, as you suggest, I think it'd be smart for insurance companies (or the federal government?) to incentivize getting flu shots...by lowering something of the cost for coverage. Like a good driver discount, but for the body.
     
  11. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    But that is how vaccines work. If you wait until afterwards it's too late.
     
  12. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    So do the anti-vaxxers in the forum use deodorant? Serious question. Have you looked at the chemicals used to keep you stink free?
     
  13. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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  14. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko Staff Member Global Moderator

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    It's certainly possible that in few years we'll discover that flu shots cause all your great-great grandchildren to be born with a penis on their forehead. But it's equally possible that flu shots cause all your great-great grandchildren to be exceptionally wise and beautiful. Since none of us have a time machine, those possibilities can't be checked. What has been checked is that flu shots aren't harmful in any significant way, since they've been giving them for years to millions of people, and lots of studies have been done to analyze the results. It's possible that something has been missed, but it seems unlikely at this point unless it works on a multi-generational timescale.

    barfo
     
  15. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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  16. CupWizier

    CupWizier Well-Known Member

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    Do you know why there is a very small amount of mercury in the vaccine?
     
  17. Propagandist

    Propagandist Well-Known Member

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    No no. I'm saying I never ever get the flu. Ever. And flu shots are seasonal. I 100% believe in the science, but until i start getting the flu or live with at-risk people, it just is a hassle that involves pain.
     
  18. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    Because Pluto was reclassified to a dwarf-planet?
     
  19. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    Pain?
     
  20. CupWizier

    CupWizier Well-Known Member

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    The extremely small levels of mercury in the vaccines are in it for a purpose and is about the same amount that is found in a can of tuna fish. How many times have you or your kids eaten tuna fish over the years?
     

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