^^^ Thats my point. The child will think being gay is normal. And eventually he'll wanna marry a gay person too. And more and more gay people
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheBlackMamba:</div><div class="quote_post">Another thing is, if a kid is raised by a gay couple, chances are that's all he'll know. He'll go to school and think being gay is normal, but once reality sets in and he realizes that it's an alternative life style, he'll be confused and probably scared.</div> Exactly and eventually that could lead to people thinking gay is normal, and being straight is disgusting. This will lead to a change of what a couple should be like, which I find horrible.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 44Thrilla:</div><div class="quote_post">I really don't have a problem with homosexuals, but I think gay "marriage" is wrong. If people out there choose to be gay, then nothings stopping them, but the government should never recognize them as a "married" couple. Recognizing them in that way indirectly accepts their relationship as a normal one, even though the gay lifestyle is and always should be an alternative lifestyle. I fully believe that homosexuality is not an innate characteristic. I think it's merely a culture that some people choose to be a part of. These people's minds allow them to enjoy an abnormal activity such as gay intercourse, so they lead a gay lifestyle. Marriage is the union of a man and a woman. Just because certain people decide they aren't attracted to the opposite sex doesn't mean they should be afforded the same rights and privileges as normal people. Nobody is asking them to become straight, they just shouldn't have their relationships recognized by the government as official "marriages", and definitely shouldn't be allowed to raise children as is they are a "family".</div> Of course the problem with that is that the government would be indirectly promoting a certain type of lifestyle, culture, and set of moral values. That defeats the point of freedom of choice and values. What would "normal" be? What the majority of the population accepts? If that were the case, wouldn't we just be marginalizing the opinions of minorities and people with different viewpoints? You can't have it both ways, in my opinion. If you allow homosexuals to live in your society, then you have to grant them all of the rights of every other citizen. I find people tend to bring their own preferences and morals into this legal issue. I myself am not homosexual and find the concept kind of disgusting. But, I can't justify imposing my own beliefs onto others in a democratic society. The idea of picking and choosing what gays are allowed to do is the worst part too. It reminds me of apartheid in South Africa, where blacks were allowed to live as citizens but shoved off to specific, non-urban, locations and only given certain freedoms. Obviously its not too that extent, but if we start awarding fundamental freedoms and rights based on how well a person fits in, we are betraying the whole idea of freedom of opinion and choice in democracy. Everyone has a part of their life that is not of the majority, whether it concerns religion, race, relationships, politics, etc. I don’t see denying gays their right to marry being any different than punishing the minority in any of those categories. Plus, marriage ain't all its cracked up to be. Let gays deal with the nagging and arguments of marriage and I bet they'll long for the days that they didn't have to commit. (j/k)
If I can't have gay marriage banned, I'd prefer being gay a crime to be honest with you. I can settle for them being couples...but it's ridiculous to recognize them as married.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheBlackMamba:</div><div class="quote_post">If I can't have gay marriage banned, I'd prefer being gay a crime to be honest with you. I can settle for them being couples...but it's ridiculous to recognize them as married.</div> See I can understand your opinion more than people that go halfway. But I still don't see how you can defend that position from a legal standpoint. Homosexuality, and gay marriage, doesn't harm other people or interfere with their day to day lives. It fits within the basic laws of most Western nations. So I don't see why we have to alter those laws just to attack something that we can't stomach. I just feel we're making the same sort of stances that previous generations had on race, religion, etc.
Because it's not an acceptable way of life. Everybody is raised to believe that a family consists of a father, a mother, and a child. That's a family...not two fathers and an adopted child nor two mothers and an adopted child. It's just not right, it doesn't fit in society. If gay marriage is legalized, ever...you'll see a huge spike in gay hate crimes. You'll see a huge spike in playground fights, even. You'll see a huge spike in assualts and batteries. You'll see a huge spike in vandalism. It's not acceptable through most of society, it just won't work without bloodshed.
I'm for gay marriage just because I think that taking rights from homosexuals is the last legal form of discrimination in the U.S.. I'm not homosexual myself but its none of my business to force someone to not get married because it makes me feel better, its not like they can control that they are gay. As for the raising children issue, I know a girl who was raised by two mothers and shes totally straight. If it weren't for the lesbian couple that adopted her she'd probably still be floating around foster homes. Homosexuals don't adopt kids and recruit them to be homosexuals, its not like the kid will never see straight people, that kid sure as hell knows whats "right" and whats "not". The issue of the child being harrassed is valid in most situations but I'm not sure that it should be a deterrant. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Because it's not an acceptable way of life. Everybody is raised to believe that a family consists of a father, a mother, and a child. That's a family...not two fathers and an adopted child nor two mothers and an adopted child. It's just not right, it doesn't fit in society. If gay marriage is legalized, ever...you'll see a huge spike in gay hate crimes. You'll see a huge spike in playground fights, even. You'll see a huge spike in assualts and batteries. You'll see a huge spike in vandalism. It's not acceptable through most of society, it just won't work without bloodshed.</div> What about when inter-racial marriage wasn't an acceptable way of life? Look at how society's views on that have changed over a few generations. I agree that hate crimes will go up (probably moreso in largely conservative areas) but its got to happen, I'm sure gays will take the abuse if it means they can have equal rights as everyone else. Blacks gaining their rights meant that hate crimes would go up but it had to be done and today we look at the segragated and slavery eras as disgusting and totally morally incorrect.
I don't think interracial marriages made this big of a splash. It was still between a man and a woman.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheBlackMamba:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't think interracial marriages made this big of a splash. It was still between a man and a woman.</div> Alot of people looked at it as being between a human and an animal. Don't mean to be racist but thats just the way some people thought back then, today most people accept gays as equal human beings (other than marriage). I don't think it would make nearly as much of a big deal as inter-racial marriage did because there's less hardcore supremacist type of people today. I can see alot of people opposing it but I can't see it being as bad because of the way society is today. I do tihnk its a little wierd having a man and a man or a woman and a woman being married but its still discrimination when you take a right from someone IMO.
I dont have a problem with them raising a kid. They are going to love it just as if they were a man and a woman. I mean, I couldn't see two gay guys raising a male child, but I can see every other situation possible. The marriage issue is another cup of tea. I think they shouldn't been seen as officially married but they can become partners for life or something along those lines.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 50:</div><div class="quote_post">I dont have a problem with them raising a kid. They are going to love it just as if they were a man and a woman. I mean, I couldn't see two gay guys raising a male child, but I can see every other situation possible. The marriage issue is another cup of tea. I think they shouldn't been seen as officially married but they can become partners for life or something along those lines.</div> I agree with that. I'm not sure that gays would stop fighting for marriage though because I'm sure alot of them see this as more of matter of principle. Sure they could create their own version of marriage but then it may lead to them having to do other things separately which essentially goes back to segregation. Also, although many genuinely want to keep marriage the way it is and should be (by the church's definition its for unitive and pro-creative purposes) theres still alot of people who would oppose a homosexual sacrament type of thing that is similar to marriage because they don't think homosexuals should be together at all. It's a touchy subject so there may not be any answers for a long time. To be honest I'd like to see some closure relatively soon whether it be for or against gay marriage. But if I were to take a stance I would be for gay marriage.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chutney:</div><div class="quote_post">Of course the problem with that is that the government would be indirectly promoting a certain type of lifestyle, culture, and set of moral values. That defeats the point of freedom of choice and values. What would "normal" be? What the majority of the population accepts? If that were the case, wouldn't we just be marginalizing the opinions of minorities and people with different viewpoints? </div>The problem I have is that there is nothing wrong with the marraige system that has been in place for hundreds of years. You can't begin to start changing things based upon the beliefs of a certain group of people, especially when the beliefs are based on sexual preference. I look at homosexuality in the same light as beastiality and pedophilia, as in it's a sexual perversion that is obviously not intended since there's no chance of procreation. The only difference being that most of our modern society has chosen to accept homosexuality as an acceptable sexual lifestyle. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You can't have it both ways, in my opinion. If you allow homosexuals to live in your society, then you have to grant them all of the rights of every other citizen. I find people tend to bring their own preferences and morals into this legal issue. I myself am not homosexual and find the concept kind of disgusting. But, I can't justify imposing my own beliefs onto others in a democratic society. The idea of picking and choosing what gays are allowed to do is the worst part too. It reminds me of apartheid in South Africa, where blacks were allowed to live as citizens but shoved off to specific, non-urban, locations and only given certain freedoms. Obviously its not too that extent, but if we start awarding fundamental freedoms and rights based on how well a person fits in, we are betraying the whole idea of freedom of opinion and choice in democracy. Everyone has a part of their life that is not of the majority, whether it concerns religion, race, relationships, politics, etc. I don?t see denying gays their right to marry being any different than punishing the minority in any of those categories.</div>We will never see eye to eye on this because we have different beliefs. You are relating it to race, but I would never be able to do that since I feel as though being gay is a choice, and your race is not. If somebody could prove to me with 100% certainty that people were born gay, then I'd agree with you. But I can't get myself to believe that the human brain is capable of instinctly attracting itself to a member of the same sex. And until it can be proven, I think that homosexuality should be treated in the same way that other bizarre sexual activities are treated.
I don't believe people are born gay, I believe it's a decision that's made. I had a friend once that was bangin' broads left and right...then I move away from VA for a year and he's gay? You're not born like that...it's a decision you make.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheBlackMamba:</div><div class="quote_post">Because it's not an acceptable way of life. Everybody is raised to believe that a family consists of a father, a mother, and a child. That's a family...not two fathers and an adopted child nor two mothers and an adopted child. It's just not right, it doesn't fit in society. If gay marriage is legalized, ever...you'll see a huge spike in gay hate crimes. You'll see a huge spike in playground fights, even. You'll see a huge spike in assualts and batteries. You'll see a huge spike in vandalism. It's not acceptable through most of society, it just won't work without bloodshed.</div> So single-parent families shouldn't be considered acceptable? Obviously, that's not what you meant, but you're making it an awfully strict definition. Well, you're arguing against gay adoption, not marriage. There's no guarantee that a married gay couple will eventually want children. That said, I still don't see why a gay couple should be denied the right to raise children if they have shown to be just as capable in parenting. I mean, how could you force a child to grow up in an orphanage without a family, while a loving gay couple is ready to take them in, just to protect what is "right?" What is right anyway? Homosexuality doesn't hurt others and gays are still productive members of society. And since when have we outlawed things, because they don't fit in society? On one side people complain about how the voices of racial minorities and the poor are ignored, but then we want to supress a similarily mistreated minority in homosexuals. Was integrating blacks into society after segregation worth the intense riots, hate, and violence it temporarily spawned? There's a reason you won't find homosexuals who are afraid to seek their equal rights from fear of hate and violence: they are tired of being treated as half-citizens simply because they live a lifestyle that offends people. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting 44Thrilla:</div><div class="quote_post">The problem I have is that there is nothing wrong with the marraige system that has been in place for hundreds of years. You can't begin to start changing things based upon the beliefs of a certain group of people, especially when the beliefs are based on sexual preference. I look at homosexuality in the same light as beastiality and pedophilia, as in it's a sexual perversion that is obviously not intended since there's no chance of procreation. The only difference being that most of our modern society has chosen to accept homosexuality as an acceptable sexual lifestyle. </div> Unfortunately, procreation is no longer the sole purpose of sexual relations and marriage in modern society. Straight couples enjoy the ability to have sex without reproducing and may live their lives married without raising children. Therefore, I don't see why we should hold homosexuals up to this standard when society as a whole now lives under an evolved, more accepting concept of marriage. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting 44Thrilla:</div><div class="quote_post">We will never see eye to eye on this because we have different beliefs. You are relating it to race, but I would never be able to do that since I feel as though being gay is a choice, and your race is not. If somebody could prove to me with 100% certainty that people were born gay, then I'd agree with you. But I can't get myself to believe that the human brain is capable of instinctly attracting itself to a member of the same sex. And until it can be proven, I think that homosexuality should be treated in the same way that other bizarre sexual activities are treated.</div> Suprisingly enough, I'm not totally convinced that homosexuality is born. And believe me, I was hesitant to equate the issue to racism. But the fact is that I've never met a homosexual that has been able to control their feelings and return to being straight. And some of them have wanted nothing else other than to be "normal," to avoid the prejudice and shame they are forced to live with. It may not be the same as race, but the reactions against it are startlingly similar. I suppose I'd take the opposite position of your's, in that until we find out that homosexuality is a condition that is abnormal and can be reversed/healed, I can't justify treating gays as a defection in society that should be treated differently than any of us.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheBlackMamba:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't believe people are born gay, I believe it's a decision that's made. I had a friend once that was bangin' broads left and right...then I move away from VA for a year and he's gay? You're not born like that...it's a decision you make.</div> Theres no proof either way. If it was a choice why didnt he continue to keep "banging broads left and right"? I believe that most homosexuals are born attracted to people of their own sex. I can't see many people deciding to choose to be attracted to people of their own sex when they are physically attracted to those of the other sex, there is no benefit to being homosecual so if its a choice I would imagine most would choose heterosexuality.
You guys, there is proof now that homosexuals are born that way. It is not a choice, and by you guys thinking it is just wrong. I am not gay, but if i was, i would probably want to get married. This isnt about if it makes you feel gross inside, people dont learn to be homosexuals, its innate. How would you all feel if it wasnt respectable for black people to marry other black people, and vice versa for every other race. Everyone thought it was gross and wrong and kids raised by these couples would learn to be black or white or whatever. How does it affect YOU?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chutney:</div><div class="quote_post">So single-parent families shouldn't be considered acceptable? Obviously, that's not what you meant, but you're making it an awfully strict definition.</div> I am confused here, I have no problem with single-parent families. Two of my best friends where raised by their mothers after their fathers walked out. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Well, you're arguing against gay adoption, not marriage. There's no guarantee that a married gay couple will eventually want children. That said, I still don't see why a gay couple should be denied the right to raise children if they have shown to be just as capable in parenting. I mean, how could you force a child to grow up in an orphanage without a family, while a loving gay couple is ready to take them in, just to protect what is "right?" What is right anyway? Homosexuality doesn't hurt others and gays are still productive members of society. And since when have we outlawed things, because they don't fit in society? On one side people complain about how the voices of racial minorities and the poor are ignored, but then we want to supress a similarily mistreated minority in homosexuals. </div> It's my personal opinion. I think if society does allow gays to get married, they shouldn't be able to adopt children as a couple. It's not the way a child is supposed to be raised. For two thousand years, families have been known as a mother, father, and a child. Why change it now? There's no just reast to change it now. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Was integrating blacks into society after segregation worth the intense riots, hate, and violence it temporarily spawned? There's a reason you won't find homosexuals who are afraid to seek their equal rights from fear of hate and violence: they are tired of being treated as half-citizens simply because they live a lifestyle that offends people.</div> They live a lifestyle that offends people, but they also live a lifestyle of increased health risks. Gay men are more likely to get HIV than straight men. It's not healthy, I don't think it's a healthy way to raise a child. 90% of gay parents who want to raise a child will more than likely raise that child believieng being gay is the perfect way to be. When little Johnny goes to 6th grade and people start cracking your mom jokes, he's going to be lost. Then they'll find out and Johnny will be subject to mass ridicule. Surely anybody who loves a child wouldn't put him through that, right? <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Run BJM:</div><div class="quote_post">Theres no proof either way. If it was a choice why didnt he continue to keep "banging broads left and right"? I believe that most homosexuals are born attracted to people of their own sex. I can't see many people deciding to choose to be attracted to people of their own sex when they are physically attracted to those of the other sex, there is no benefit to being homosecual so if its a choice I would imagine most would choose heterosexuality.</div> I can see where you're coming from, but I just don't believe that one minute you love girls, you love sex with them, you love anything with them...and then a year later you're gay? It makes no sense to me.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheFreshPrince:</div><div class="quote_post">You guys, there is proof now that homosexuals are born that way. It is not a choice, and by you guys thinking it is just wrong. I am not gay, but if i was, i would probably want to get married. This isnt about if it makes you feel gross inside, people dont learn to be homosexuals, its innate. How would you all feel if it wasnt respectable for black people to marry other black people, and vice versa for every other race. Everyone thought it was gross and wrong and kids raised by these couples would learn to be black or white or whatever. How does it affect YOU?</div> Homosexuality isn't a race, don't bring race into this. Too many times is race thrusted into an issue that it has no basis being in. How does it affect me? I go to school to learn. I don't go to school to have "Silence Day" in support of gays, lesbians, trans, emo's, cutters, etc. That's not why I go to school. If I wanted to have a "Straight Day," the school would more than likely shut it down. I also don't want to raise my kids in an environment where homosexuality is the same as heterosexuality. A family is a father, a mother, and a child. I don't want my children thinking it's ok for a father, father, child. That's not what a family is, it's never been a family definition, and it's not time to change that. If you're gay, you must face the realities of it. Even if gay marriage is legalized, you think it'll be any more acceptable by society? If anything, it'll be less acceptable.
First of all gay marriage was legal in ancient rome and persia, not exactly two thousand years of straights only.and second of all how does making you gay make you more likely to get HIV/AIDS? It is the same process either way.and finally kids are already being raised be gay parents and turning out straight/gay whatever just like normal kids. Your kids are already under that impression. It's not like if gay marriage is all of sudden legal everywhere more people will become gay and adopt. Gay's and their lifestyles will not be slowed down by this being illegal. They will still be gay
