Let me put it another way... We went how long before finding a Derrick Rose? Even with #1 picks, #2 picks, #3 picks, #4 picks, etc., in the draft. A chance at a guy like Melo is rare.
Denny, I think you almost had me convinced but I just don't seem to believe in Anthony like you do. He's a bad three point shooter, 30% on 181 attempts last year. It's risky to count on Deng for development behind the arc, but he did put up 39% on 80 shots last year. Is Anthony better than Deng from behind the arc in terms of what the Bulls need? Deng's a better rebounder and defender, generally, and specifically on Paul Pierce, who he's always played well. Is the drop off from Anthony to Deng really worth giving up Noah? I'm leaning no. I think you have to chop off five points a game from Anthony's total given the style Denver plays, which leaves him at what 23 points a game. that's much better than Deng's 17.6 but is it good enough? At the end of the day Anthony is a brilliant volume scorer. I'm not sure that's what the Bulls need.
FWIW Noah doesn't want to go so they'd have to factor in getting an unhappy guy. http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...im-noah-bulls-chicago20100922,0,3646686.story "My goal is I want to stay in Chicago," the Bulls' 7-foot center said Wednesday. "I think we can do something really special here. I hope I can be a part of it." Anthony is entering the last year of his contract and has rejected offers for a contract extension. The Knicks, Nets, Bulls and most recently the Rockets have been rumored to be interested in him. "Obviously, Carmelo is a great player," Noah said. "But we (Bulls) are also very good right now."
The formula for winning championships seems to be to have at least 3 guys who are top 15 players in the league, and even a 4th guy who is as good as Bynum or Rondo. Even the championship Bulls had a 30+ PPG scorer, so volume scoring is a part of the equation. The Bulls are looking a lot like the Jazz or maybe the Blazers. Capable of 50 wins, maybe winning a playoff serires. Melo makes us look more like a Celtics or Lakers team. Plus the guy is a beast. He's probably the strongest SF in the league behind LeBron. The game isn't just played on one end of the court. Whoever has to guard Melo is going to be battered and bruised trying to defend him.
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/basketball/bulls/2738606,CST-SPT-bull23.article Granted, no one believes he's the equal of Anthony, who is considered one of the top five players in the league. It's just that Noah is a hard-to-find center, and his game meshes perfectly with point guard Derrick Rose and new power forward Carlos Boozer. Basically, the question Bulls management has to ask is this: Is the team better off with Anthony (career average of 24.7 points in seven seasons), or with Noah and small forward Luol Deng (who undoubtedly would have to be included to make a deal for Anthony work under the salary-cap rules)? Noah hopes the latter option is more attractive. ''I understand what kind of a player Carmelo Anthony is,'' he said Wednesday after a charity appearance at Lathrop Elementary School on the West Side. ''We'll see what happens. I'm trying to stay positive, and I'm really excited about the upcoming season. I can't control what happens in this situation. ''My goal is, I want to stay in Chicago. I think we can really do something special, and I hope I can be a part of it.''
"The new contract wouldn't kick in until the 2011-12 season, but getting a deal done now would prevent Noah from becoming a restricted free agent next summer and ensure he stays with the Bulls long-term -- unless, of course, he's dealt for Anthony." If the Bulls sign him, he becomes poison pill provision, right? And next season he'd be BYC. I don't get the "unless he's dealt for Anthony" analysis here.
I view Noah as a Ben Wallace in his prime with more energy, better ball skills, slightly better scorer. He is what Ben was suppose to be when we signed him.
LMAO. This thread was worth reading just for that video. I don't know what's more amazingly incompetent, that Jack took that kind of risk with the quarter winding down, or that Deng doesn't jump on him and try to create a turnover, or that the ref calls a shooting foul because the defender lightly tugged the jersey of a guy cutting to the basket who clearly had no hope of even getting the ball. 10 seconds of amazingly bad basketball, and everybody did their part.
Man, I'm not sure Noah will ever come close to approaching a prime Ben Wallace. He averaged 15.4b, 3.2 blocks, and 1.4 steals in 02-03. That's Dwight Howard with a less scoring and more blocks.
I think the difference between Deng and Anthony is quite significant. I think I pointed it out in another thread, but Deng doesn't seem to perform much better defensively against Lebron or Melo, for example. They all score above their averages against him. That's pretty solid evidence to me that he's not doing much to slow them down. Rebounding differences are pretty slight too. Melo rates out as a very good rebounder from the 3 spot. Not gonna lose much there. I tend to think of Melo in terms of what I'd like Deng to be able to do. He shoots the 3 with more confidence, but I don't think that's really where the key differences are. I think of it like: * I'd like Deng to be a better passer and much more confident with the ball in his hands. Melo is this. This would have practical advantages in terms. A better ball-handling Deng would be better at setting up Boozer and Rose. * I'd like Deng to be more athletic. A more athletic and better handling Deng would turn more of those 20 foot shots into 10 foot shots. Melo does this too. * These things also would combine to make Deng more of a bailout option. When other guys are covered, Deng has trouble getting off a good contested shot. Melo is a guy who can routinely take and make contested shots. This, in turn, makes it that much more difficult for a defense to key on Rose and Boozer. In short, it's not just that Melo shoots more than Deng, it's that he's demonstrably better in several ways, and this leads to a more productive player who gets better opportunities for himself and his teammates.
I buy this. Carmelo Anthony is the guy who can manufacture a shot when the twenty-four second clock is ticking down. That's worth at least a couple of wins a season. I'm really split on this theoretical trade.
Picture the team without Rose, as if he had to miss games for whatever reason. It would be irrelevant who got the ball to Melo, and we'd still have a chance to win ballgames.
This swings both ways, again. Are the Bulls closer to a championship with Carmelo Anthony? They have a sliver of chance of becoming a contender just through internal development. Noah has a great year and all of his numbers improve; The same for Rose and Deng, and Boozer stays healthy. If you trade for Carmelo Anthony is it kind of a step back from winning an immediate championship? You'd have to retool at center to become a contender, which would take time. Again, I'm really split on this one.
You have to consider the possibility that Anthony kills Rose from ever getting to full bloom Anthony = Top 5 player now that doesn't have the "make the team mate better" capacities of James, Paul , Wade and Bryant Rose is not a Top 5 player but he could be , but with Anthony , I don't know that he makes it . He , in this scenario , would still be an incredible player , I just don't know that he becomes transcendent. If you get Anthony , and you've got Boozer as your other forward , ideally , you would have a strong defensive minded Center ( or Center rotation ) who has to be more orientated toward help and scramble rather than bang and body up - because of Boozer and Anthony being Boozer and Anthony. Noah , Asik and Gibson are all ideal types of players in the complementary mix you would want to support a forward line of Boozer and Anthony. And then at guard , you'd really want Derrick playing more of a defensive role like what they had him playing in the Olympics which would mean slowing down his offensive pace to play this role and becoming more a half court point guard which is contrary to his biggest advantage right now - being one of the best open floor point guards in the league. I mean ...are Boozer and Anthony going to want to floor it for 82 games and into the post season with Derrick and Joakim ? Vets like this ultimately appreciate a slower style. Anyway...maybe Derrick's model would have to project toward a Dennis Johnson type point on those Championship Celtic teams. And then at the other guard , you'd need another strong defender who can shoot the 3 and who would be a defential role player . Someone like Raja Bell in his prime ....maybe a young emerger like Courtney Lee or Aaron Affalo. But its all a bit of a moot point anyway ...because you'd have to kill your "first choice" on the wish list of Center ( Noah ) with who your forward line would be , with still no "ideal fit" at starting shooting guard - and with the risk of diminishing your current franchise player who just happens to be a point guard - by asking him to be round peg in a square hole. This is why you don't do the deal for Carmelo Anthony despite hiim being a Top 5 player. You may be inclined to do the deal if we're 3 to 4 years down the line and Omer Asik is a double double machine and a proven defensive anchor at the NBA level and we've found our Raja , Lee , Affalo etc ....and you figure it wise to start slowing your offense down to preserve Derrick's career , and , an acquisition like this - in this scenario - might then start looking more like a move that puts you over the top. But right now ...too many unanswered questions and too much downside that gets overlooked in the singular consideration in the blaze of the individual "top 5" talent
I think there's pretty much no way that a team with only one top 5 player beats a team with two top 5 players. That makes all the other questions pretty irrelevant. If you have those two top 5 guys, then you can worry about how they'll mesh. If you don't have those two guys, then you're probably not even in the conversation.
Melo and Iverson were able to get all the touches they needed to both put up near 30 PPG. Granted, we're not going to be playing at Denver's pace (but why not play at their pace?)... Even at a slower pace, there's plenty of touches for Rose and Melo to score 25 PPG each. Rose can play more minutes, if desired, because he doesn't have to handle the ball and create for his teammates every single play. Granted, there should be some easier (less work) possessions by dumping the ball into Boozer. Then there's match ups to consider. Against some teams, Melo can destroy the guy trying to guard him, so you go to him. Against other teams, Rose has the advantage so you go to him. Deng has rarely been the guy with the match up advantage. I don't mean to be negative on Deng, he's quite good at what he does. Melo gives the Bulls a true 2nd guy that deserves a double team on defense. I really like Noah, too, but when you think he's the next coming of Ben Wallace, there's probably some kool-aid drinking or homerism involved. I'm thinking we wouldn't have to give up Taj, so we'd still have a defensive PF type who can get about 10 boards/game and block some shots (he was a demon in college at it). We're likely to end up playing Boozer a lot at C, but he'd be fine at C. * Rose Korver/Brewer * Melo Taj * Boozer * = your big 3.
Boozer pretty much split time at PF and C last season for Utah. 37% of Utah's total minutes at PF, and 30% of Utah's total minutes at C. Centers actually had a worse PER against him at C (16.9) than at PF (18.6) Utah was 53-29 in the West.
