Denver with Melo and Iverson as an example isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.... I read today that NJ isn't putting Favors in the deal. So I am not sure what they are offering besides Murphy. Terence Williams and picks? If that's the case, then the bulls offer is way better in terms of talent. Deng and Gibson give you two solid rotation players/starters. NJ isn't even offering one. Throw the Charlotte pick in there and it seems like a no-brainer if it's just between Chicago and NJ. The bulls offer is better than NY's offer of Curry and Randolph or Gallinari, too. And if Favors isn't in the deal, there is absolutely no reason to include Noah.
What makes you say his defense against guys at C was horrid? His defense against PFs was. But his defense against C's was better than against PFs. http://www.82games.com/0910/09UTA12.HTM#bypos 16.9 PER against at C, 18.6 PER against at PF. Compared to Noah: http://www.82games.com/0910/09CHI16.HTM#bypos 17.5 PER against at C, 16.6 against at PF. (The lower the number the better)
By the way, a new wrinkle in the story is that Denver's playing hardball and pricing themselves out of the market, even for the "superstar" Melo.
Ask Sam I know. No one cares about his opinion, but...here it is. Mostly about Melo. About the difference of "going for it" with Hinrich, as compared to now:
Just theoretically, I still don't see why the Bulls would have to throw in Gibson in addition to Noah to match a New Jersey offer (which the Nets claim to have not made, and which is sort of moot because there are various reports that Anthony won't sign an extension with them). I continue to think that all the stuff comes down to where Anthony is willing to play. If it wasn't a matter of that issue, there'd be no talk of trading him in the first place. so while Melo doesn't hold ALL the cards, he certainly seems to have a lot of them, other teams are going to take that into account, and it's highly unlikely the Nuggets will get "fair value" for him.
Looks like Anthony will land at Nets if he signs an extension. Ok. Now time to concentrate for training camp.
And, as you say, it makes Charlotte better. This is a weird situation, because as a bulls fan, you have to want Melo to be as big a jerk as possible, say he won't sign with the Nets, and force the Nuggets to take back garbage. The reported trade kinda sucks for us because it makes both the Nets and Bobcats demonstrably better. And we lose an opportunity to get better. I mean, I don't think it knocks us out of the playoffs or anything, but it might chip off a win or two.
If true, it's disappointing, but I don't see that we had the ammo to do this particular deal. I'm very on the fence about a Deng/Noah for Melo swap, and from Denver's perspective, if they're getting picks plus both AK-47 and Favors out of the deal, that's probably a deal I'd take over Deng/Noah.
Agree . Favors and picks ( Kirilenko is expiring ) is the best possible deal for Denver that would be clearly in rebuilding mode
You could make the point that Melo had all the right pieces in Denver ( and I reckon he did ) in what was an exquistely balanced team for him and he couldn't do it. Chicago is less "set up" for him and where we have to plug holes My view is , without Melo , we're a quality starting calibre shooter at the 2 to be a contender That's the type of guy we need with who we've got I want Wayne Ellington and I'm prepared to take the risk in him Whilst Rudy Fernandez is not an Allan Houston / Ray Allen type ....I also wanted him as he (is) more a fit with who we've got and what we need. I see him as a Manu Ginobli type ( not as good but of this ilk )
Got to disagree m'boy Iverson went to the Finals in his prime with a team of role players and no true 2nd superstar. His Sixers were a legit contender over a 3 to 4 year window. James Cav's had no true 2nd star and they went the Finals too and were a legit contender Kidd's Nets too. McCulloch, Martin, Van Horn , Kittles and Kidd When the Pistons won they didn't have what you could call a Top 5 talent on their team at the time I wouldn't even call the Celtics championship team a team of Top 5 talents .....but they like the Pistons were a veteran team that had depth and KG , like the Wallaces, provided the difference via the defense which is why they won. So depth and defense around not necessarily Top 5 talents ....but a veteran team with at least 2 ( preferably 3 ) players that you can legitimately make a case for as being in the top half a dozen at their position in the league. Rose definately. Boozer plausibly. Maybe Noah..although its debateable / borderline ...but he's on his way. We're very close as constituted. Add in super role player , Luol Deng , and role defenders like Gibson and Brewer , the specialist long ball guy in Korver ....and we're a quality starting 2 guard ( not necessarily a star ...but a dead eye shooter ) and a veteran interior defender from contending. What we gut to get Melo takes us further away from where we are already at as a team IMO , and this team , has the potential to be just as good or better that those teams I've mentiioned above - all of whom went to the Finals and with some of them winning rings
Anthony in Jersey is a bitchin fit...offensively at least A front line of Lopez, Murphy and Anthony would seem to be a great fit ...Murphy as your stretch big , Lopez in the post and Anthony's inside / outside versatility. Morrow is your shooter at the 2 and I guess its a flip between Farmar and Augustin as to who your starting point guard is. Outlaw and Terrence Williams are your key reserves. So that's all great ...but where are your defenders ? You need a hard man at the 4 and a hard man who can shoot at the 2 and leave Morrow as a specialist off the bench with Terrence Williams as your 6th man across the 1 to 3 spots and who gives you some defensive back bone. A vet 3rd big to back up Lopez and provide some interior D would be nice too. But they'd be a good young team with some nice pieces and cap room on their way up
FJ: Dikembe Mutumbo was a hell of a player on that Sixers team. But I disagree with Mike because I just don't view Anthony as a top five player. I'd rather have Durant, James, Wade, Darin Williams, Chris Paul, Dwight Howard and Derek Rose. I think there's another group of players that would be better on the Bulls, or another team, then Melo depending on need. I think he's a step under being a transcendent player.
I'd even concede Melo is a step under transcendent. He's pretty clearly the 3rd best SF, so I can't picture him being really being one of the top 5. So let's just call it "very very good". 1. Rose isn't (yet?) the sort of one man gang that Iverson or Kidd in their primes were. 2. The Sixers and Nets didn't actually win anything. This Pistons seem a good if different comparison to me. Very good players at all five positions. But it does seem to me that it gets us back to the musical chairs salary cap problem. Where do we get our Rip Hamilton in his prime SG without sacrificing elsewhere? While Pierce and Allen probably weren't top 5, I think Melo is much more comparable to Pierce than anyone on our current roster. He's a guy that's maybe not the top 5 guy, probably a top 5 or 6 guy at his position. OK, so we trade Luol Deng for Ben Gordon, let Brewer step into the starting 3 spot (where he continues to defend, but since he's playing opposite Gordon his lack of shot is mitigated) and we're only a couple role players away? Actually, I think with perfect foresight, if you have Gordon and not Deng, you could probably also skip out on CJ Watson/Kurt Thomas/Keith Bogans and have enough money to bring in Josh Childress to fill in Deng's role. Ask me a year ago and I think that team has a puncher's chance at a championship. But I think having to go up against the Heat is way too much for this sort of team. Acutally, I wrote this post a couple months ago So since it looks like Melo's not dropping into our laps, I guess in the end we agree that we need to catch lightning, or a shooting/defensive maniac 2 in a bottle. I'm skeptical that Rudy will keep his head on right and could defend well enough to play the way I'd like. I'd probably be happier with a Trev Ariza/Andre Iguodala type; Wade or Lebron would end up eating Rudy's lunch.
By the way, since nothing is consummated that we know of, I'd just like to throw in this wrinkle. Denver Post says: KC says: And, sigh, I broke my pledge not to follow this on twitter. However, I didn't actually go to the twitter or read it from my phone, just from one of the sidebars on the Trib's Bulls page. Denver media says its all Noah. Chicago implies Denver doesn't want Deng's salary, and that Noah may not resign with Denver. Spin? Arghh, why am I even asking? Of course its spinning, and it's me that's spinning my wheels. Que sera, sera -- I am happy either way.
