By the way, I thought this discussion is an interesting perspective on Denver's motivation in doing this deal:
I don't see who Denver could sign with a ton of cap space that would be considered rebuilding. There's not likely to be even anyone as good as Deng.
Yeah, but the Bulls did that in 2007 anyway, and got Ben Wallace! It's not a great hope, but it is a kind of hope to sell their fans.
I don't think it would be their intent to "sign" anyone Just keep em young, dumb and full of ...*ahem*.... And keep the payroll down while you're selling the journey of youth . And if high salaried non performing teams need to shed a star in the reality of the new CBA then teams like the Nugz will be there to receive for low cost in the give up.
Yeah . I've noted this all along. They are substantially in the clear after this season with Nene the only possible holdover
I wonder if you could flip Deng to the Jazz for Kirilenko . He really would be a terrific fit under Sloan's system playing with Deron Williams and I like his fit upfront with Jefferson/Fesenko/Okur and Millsap. Anyway...if this interested Utah you could send Kirilenko to the Nuggets as filler with Gibson, Johnson , our 2011 1st rounder ( unconditional ) and the rights to the Charlotte pick . But I would want Aaron Affalo included From the Nuggets perspective is Favors + the picks you get from New Jersey better than Gibson+Johnson + picks you get from Chicago ( remembering that the Charlotte pick could turn out to be a gem - depending on what your view is of the Charlotte franchise ) Yeah....I know , Jersey is still better , but , if Melo prefers Chicago to New Jersey then this changes things . Ours is still an attractive ( and appropriate )package Noah Boozer Anthony Affalo Rose bench Asik Thomas Korver Brewer Watson Scalabrine Richard Udoka Lucas the 3rd That team is playing Miami for the next several years for the Eastern Conference championship to then play whoever the West deals up in the Finals
Yeah but my reply was in the context of your earlier statement that "if you haven't got 2 Top 5 guys then you're not in the conversation" I was illustrating that this isn't necessarily the case ...there have been plenty of teams that have been right there playing for championships ( some of them winning them ) over the last 10 to 12 years Ok. But you are making the assumption that Jerry won't pay. I think if we pay Joakim and were able to trade for Melo with Gibson and picks ( and salary relief through flipping Deng ) then I think we clealy can go all the way . I mean the cost of Deng , Gibson and Johnson and the picks equals Melo and Affalo ....with the differential in bodies on Roster cut back to minimum fillers. I don't necesssarily see that we're paying more in this scenario to what we're already committed to , and what we were prepared to be committed to this summer . I mean if you were prepared to pay one of Bosh/Boozer and one of James/Wade a couple of months ago...well then surely now you would commit to Boozer/Melo
As far as where the bulls would get their Rip Hamilton, all of the guys the bulls signed this year to two year deals with mostly unguaranteed third years are the trade bait. And as far as Brewer goes, his off the ball skills are exactly what's needed next to Rose. Used correctly, he could be really hard and annoying to guard. There's a chance he could be good enough. But there's a chance he could be an 15 foot brick waiting to happen too. Either way, he's trade bait for an upgrade as expiring contract or a solid vet in his prime. Hopefully getting dumped by Utah in his contract year was enough of a wake up call.
If it is true that we didn't do a Melo deal because we wanted to hold on to Noah, I think that is the smart move. Obviously, in a vacuum, Anthony is a better player than Noah, but overall, from a group/team perspective, we already have a (not as good as Melo mut still pretty fine) player in Deng and the loss of Noah would decimate our front court and would be damn near impossible to replace in the foreseeable future. Since the deal would pretty much have to include Deng AND Noah, the gain of a top 10 (top 5?) player (and picks?) would come at a precious cost and I'm not sure the overall gain of a star player would be completely offset by the losses. I'd love to have him but wouldn't support selling the farm to get him.
The choice, regarding Noah, is pretty clear. I see at least 4 options, but it starts with a binary choice. Either you think Noah is so good (or going to be) that you keep him at pretty much "all" costs (all being a big contract). Or you don't. So the 4 options: 1) Keep him, sign him to pretty much what he wants so he'll be a happy guy. 2) Keep him, squeeze him at the negotiating table. He's not going to be so happy. 3) Trade him for Melo. 4) Keep him for 2 more years, let him walk like we did with Gordon.
Bulls trying to work out a three team trade for Noah? http://jerseychaser.com/knicks-bulls-still-in-contention-for-carmelo-anthony/
Woj with some interesting updates today This seems short-sighted on Anthony's part, for the reasons that Woj lays out. But for us so much the better, I guess. In other words, it appears the very inexperienced Nuggets brass is pissing everyone off, clinging to hope, and in for a seriously big letdown. If Melo won't even talk to the Nuggets and won't sign with the Nets, are we not back in the running?
It just won't die, will it. I'll continue to hope for a Noah-less deal for Melo, and be at peace if we can't find one. Go Bulls!
When thinking about that 4 way trade proposal (Melo to the Nuggets) 1. Presumably the Nuggets want AK-47’s expiring contract and think he’s got some cache around the league. 2. Presumably the Jazz are more about getting under the luxury tax than they are about Boris Diaw 3. Would the Jazz conceivably be interested in Deng? He fits their system better than in the Nuggets (Deng isn't quite at "tits on a bull" level of usefulness there, but close), and swapping his $11.3M deal for AK’s $17.8M should still get the Jazz under the LT. So Melo to the Bulls, Deng to the Jazz, and AK, Taj and JJ to the Nuggets The Nets get screwed, but what seems to be screwing the Nets is Melo doesn't want to extend with them. If he did, wouldn't this be a done deal already? If Melo would go to the Nets, and they’re going to trade Devin Harris, would it be worthwhile to try and cut the Bobcats out of the deal… sending Deng to the Jazz and Harris back to us? I know this is an unorthodox approach that would probably never be considered, but Harris is sort of a rich-man’s Kirk. He’s one of the better defensive PGs, and while he’s not a great outside shooter, he’s not awful at it. Unlike Kirk, he can finish in traffic, and he’s on a very reasonably priced deal. He’s not really seemed to be a pure PG to me, but then again, Rose doesn’t completely seem to be either. Put together two guards who can pass and score, improve the defense, and let Brewer and Korver handle the 3. I think we’d be better off. Also, it keeps another Eastern Conference team (the Bobcats) from getting better.
If Deng's deal was 2 years shorter I think it'd be easier to move. As it stands (and I don't think its a particularly bad thing as I think Deng is underrated) I don't think he's going anywhere any time soon. He is apparently pricey -vs- perceived value or he'd be easier to move, but I think a healthy Deng is a valuable asset. Hopefully he stays healthy -- as a player contributing and/or as a trade asset that will come up to market value with demonstration of stepping up and of durability. The FIBA thing did nothing but good for Deng's stock. I hope he can keep the momentum going.
Ah..I see I have smeone prepared to ride shotgun with me in the idea of Deng to the Jazz and Kirilenko + Taj and picks to the Denver Nuggets Utah seems to be a more stable market that is less reactionary in the fan base - which is why , perhaps the issue of Luol and his cost isn't so much of a albatross that Lu ends up having to carry around his neck there. Especially if he has the type of success I think he can give with Deron Williams and Al Jefferson who I believe he is an insanely good fit with Lu with Deron and Al Jefferson and Coach Sloan , I reckon , is borderline allstar upside and a true 3rd wheel in Utah on a young vet team ( Deron, Al and Lu ) And if this is how it materialises then he is worth every buck of his $12M Also remember that they have to put the right type of support assets around Deron Williams and his impending free agency in a 2012 With the developing Fesenko at the rear and the impressive Millsap at forward ...a shooter to develop in Gordon Hayseed .....they really just need to add ssome 2 guard depth and they'd be a very tough team to deal with out West where there is a power vacuum emerging in the next couple of years with the ultimate deterioration of Kobe's Lakers, Dirk's Mavs and Duncan's Spurs. The Nuggets would be blown up....the Hornets are cactus ...so you could probably see teams like a Jazz team that looked like this, the Thunder and a Blazers team usurping the power base in the West. The only thing that I see that would give the Jazz some pause is that they have taken a risk on Jefferson at a nominal high cost and they would also be faced with taking a risk on Deng for the cost. Personally, I really like Jefferson and Deng together ( in concept ) and believe that they would be a very good complementary fit. Add Deron Williams to drive that train, a garbage man scrapper at Center and a some wing shooters and its almost not fair
I reckon the only reason Harris was out in the open was because of the work in of the Hornets on the deal and Diaw's contract being moved. Remember Diaw is a significant ball handler and they lost Felton If this 4 team collapses and the Hornets aren't needed in the mix, Diaw stays and they Harris stays. From the Nets point of view , unless they are getting Melo ( where they would have to lose Harris to free up Diaw who would go to the Jazz with Kirilenko going to Denver ) ....why would they accept a lesser package at point when they are not getting their prize in Melo. Harris staying in Jersey makes a lot of sense with developing big men in Lopez and Favors. Keep Farmar as the back up he is
