From laughting stock to contender...see how...

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting phiLA:</div><div class="quote_post">whoa, whoa, whoa. hold up a sec. most of this board thought the new york knicks would be in the playoff hunt? are you serious? i thought the knicks should be better than they are right now, but in the playoff hunt?

anyways, as for the trade, the cavs would jump on that trade hands down. marbury is a good point guard, and although there would be problems between lebron, hughes, and marbury, they would be getting channing frye, who like i said, had a terrific rookie season and can only get better. the knicks would definetly get the lower end of the trade. i still dont get it, i think a package of marbury and frye together should equal more than just illgauskas!</div>

Yup. Most of the board thought that we'd at least be competing for a playoff spot. Wouldnt you if you had the best coach in the NBA and possessed the large amount of talent that the Knicks have? I was probably the only Knick fan in the entire world that saw this trainwreck of a season coming.

As for me trading Channing Frye to land Big Z I guess it just depends on how you feel about Frye. I dont like him. Other than a midrange jumper that's almost automatic he doesnt impress me. Weak defender, weak rebounder and very little low post skills. I'd deal him for one of the top centers in the NBA especially since my entire hypothetical team is pretty much built around him. But if you think the Knicks get back too little how about the Cavaliers throw in their first rounder and sign and trade Gooden over to us?

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting phiLA:</div><div class="quote_post">odom has been too passive earlier on in the season, but in recent span of games he's reallly starting to get how the triangle works and how its run, therefore, his game has really picked up. he is doing good on defense, and most importantly, he is scoring on offense. the guy has a good three point shot and makes it when he's open, he also has a nice baby hook. he is a great fit for the triangle, and like i said, it will take more than francis to pry him away from us.</div>

Well I'm happy for you and all the other Laker fans. For your sake I hope you get the 7th seed not that you guys will beat Pheonix or anything but it should be fun to watch.

I just thought of this trade right now off the top of my head: How about Francis for Carlos Boozer? Boozer has been injury prone and is making alot of money. He also plays the same position as Okur who has been very impressive this season. The Jazz also need to improve their guard play. Fair trade?

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting phiLA:</div><div class="quote_post">ok. im starting to get the point of the nuggets trading away kenyon. again, i wouldnt do it, but its reasonable, and i wouldnt bash the nuggets front office if they did so. but i would just do martin for taylor straight up if its possible. that way they get to still keep their defensive stopper in patterson, and they can adress their needs for a long range shooter in the free agency market or the draft</div>

Thank you! I thought I was going crazy. No offense but you'd be foolish not to trade Martin for Taylor. It just doesnt make any sense not to especially when you consider the Nuggets are 18-5 without him. Nevermind the fact he's overpaid, always injured and serves no purpose. That record alone should be enough to trade any player. You think maybe you're still captivated by how good Kidd made Martin look? As I said before Richardson is capable of playing good defense not as good as Patterson's but good enough. The Nuggets honestly need decent long range shooting more than they need a defensive stopper. They dont have a draft pick and will probably be more concerned with locking up Geico. Besides is there any long range shooter on the market this summer? By the way I'm assuming since you didnt mention the other trades, you think they'll go down.


Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">Yup. Most of the board thought that we'd at least be competing for a playoff spot. Wouldnt you if you had the best coach in the NBA and possessed the large amount of talent that the Knicks have? I was probably the only Knick fan in the entire world that saw this trainwreck of a season coming.</div>

well, im glad you didnt think the knicks would make the playoffs, because i certainly didnt. how can you expect to be in the playoffs with a roster of marbury, crawford, and richardson? those three will be a huge headache for larry brown.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">As for me trading Channing Frye to land Big Z I guess it just depends on how you feel about Frye. I dont like him. Other than a midrange jumper that's almost automatic he doesnt impress me. Weak defender, weak rebounder and very little low post skills. I'd deal him for one of the top centers in the NBA especially since my entire hypothetical team is pretty much built around him. But if you think the Knicks get back too little how about the Cavaliers throw in their first rounder and sign and trade Gooden over to us?</div>

marbury and frye - illgauskas, gooden, 1st rounder

i dont think the cavs bite then. they will be giving a first rounder, a good center in illgauskas, and one of their best defensive players in gooden. if you leave out gooden and just trade for illgauskas and a 1st rounder, than im pretty sure the cavs would accept.

also, i havent really seen any knick games so i cant really jugde channing frye at all, but from what i have read on this board, the knick fans are all very high on him, saying he will be a great player, and that he is not soft and ect. so i dont think they would take too kindly if he gets traded for an old, aging center.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Well I'm happy for you and all the other Laker fans. For your sake I hope you get the 7th seed not that you guys will beat Pheonix or anything but it should be fun to watch.</div>

thanks. and i hope that the knicks fire isiah thomas for your sake, and the sake of the whole franchise. hopefully something will happen to turn this once proud franchise back into respectability.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I just thought of this trade right now off the top of my head: How about Francis for Carlos Boozer? Boozer has been injury prone and is making alot of money. He also plays the same position as Okur who has been very impressive this season. The Jazz also need to improve their guard play. Fair trade?</div>

could work, but dont the jazz already have deron williams at point guard? dont know much about the jazz, but i think the trade would benefit the knicks tremendously since boozer is a man among boys in the paint. you just have to hope he stays healthy.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Thank you! I thought I was going crazy. No offense but you'd be foolish not to trade Martin for Taylor. It just doesnt make any sense not to especially when you consider the Nuggets are 18-5 without him. Nevermind the fact he's overpaid, always injured and serves no purpose. That record alone should be enough to trade any player. You think maybe you're still captivated by how good Kidd made Martin look? As I said before Richardson is capable of playing good defense not as good as Patterson's but good enough. The Nuggets honestly need decent long range shooting more than they need a defensive stopper. They dont have a draft pick and will probably be more concerned with locking up Geico.</div>

yeah, good point. i think i was just thinking about the kenyon martin of the nets. i mean, the lakers did see them in the finals and kenyon was pretty impressive. but anyways, yes, i agree i was ignorant, and yes, the record does speak for itself. but as for the richardson and patterson swap? the knicks would benefit from it, but the nuggets wont, so i dont see it happening. richardson is a good player, but his contract is what will prevent him from getting moved. the guy's contract is huge and runs up all the way until 09, while patterson's expires after this season with a player option for year 07.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Besides is there any long range shooter on the market this summer?</div>

not any "big names", but yes there is. jason terry, jon barry, NVE, voshon lenard (could resign with nuggets). there are still a few, and ill look them up later if you want me too. but like i said, there are some three point shooters out there, but there just isnt any "big names"

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> By the way I'm assuming since you didnt mention the other trades, you think they'll go down.</div>

yes, i think the trades seem reasonable, and have a chance of accurring, especially the jalen rose and wally scheizerback trade. (spelling)

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting phiLA:</div><div class="quote_post">well, im glad you didnt think the knicks would make the playoffs, because i certainly didnt. how can you expect to be in the playoffs with a roster of marbury, crawford, and richardson? those three will be a huge headache for larry brown.</div>

That's pretty much what I thought.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting phiLA:</div><div class="quote_post">marbury and frye - illgauskas, gooden, 1st rounder

i dont think the cavs bite then. they will be giving a first rounder, a good center in illgauskas, and one of their best defensive players in gooden. if you leave out gooden and just trade for illgauskas and a 1st rounder, than im pretty sure the cavs would accept.

also, i havent really seen any knick games so i cant really jugde channing frye at all, but from what i have read on this board, the knick fans are all very high on him, saying he will be a great player, and that he is not soft and ect. so i dont think they would take too kindly if he gets traded for an old, aging center.</div>

Gooden plays defense??? I did not know that! Everytime I heard a Cavaliers fan talk about Gooden they complained about his defense. In that case Marbury and Frye for Big Z, Eric Snow and a first rounder is fine by me.

Yup. The way Knick fans(not necessarily on this board) talk about Channing Frye you'd swear he was the Messiah or worse Tim Duncan. I've even heard someone compare him to Bob Macadoo. In my opinion Knicks fans are high on him because everything else went so wrong this season so their just reaching to find something good. There is a chance he ends up being as good as Okur is but I wouldnt bet on it. Fans of other teams think he'll be great because of the numbers he puts up. As far as I'm concerned he's just a jumpshooting big man that needs to be set up by other players to score. He's not as soft as I expected but he certaintly prefers standing out in the perimeter to shoot the jumper as opposed to working in the paint. Like I said Big Z is one of the top centers in the league and I would definetely trade Frye for him.


<div class="quote_poster">Quoting phiLA:</div><div class="quote_post">thanks. and i hope that the knicks fire isiah thomas for your sake, and the sake of the whole franchise. hopefully something will happen to turn this once proud franchise back into respectability.</div>

Thank you!

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting phiLA:</div><div class="quote_post">could work, but dont the jazz already have deron williams at point guard? dont know much about the jazz, but i think the trade would benefit the knicks tremendously since boozer is a man among boys in the paint. you just have to hope he stays healthy.</div>

They could just play Francis at the shooting guard. He's certainly an upgrade over Gordan Girichek(spelling?) or whoever else they have at shooting guard. They get a quality guard and the Knicks get a quality big man. It certainly seems like a good deal for both parties.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting phiLA:</div><div class="quote_post">yeah, good point. i think i was just thinking about the kenyon martin of the nets. i mean, the lakers did see them in the finals and kenyon was pretty impressive. but anyways, yes, i agree i was ignorant, and yes, the record does speak for itself. but as for the richardson and patterson swap? the knicks would benefit from it, but the nuggets wont, so i dont see it happening. richardson is a good player, but his contract is what will prevent him from getting moved. the guy's contract is huge and runs up all the way until 09, while patterson's expires after this season with a player option for year 07.</div>

Martin was playing in the perfect system for him alongside the perfect point guard which is why he looked so good and has struggled ever since. The Nuggets would certainly benefit from the Patterson-Richardson swap. They get some badly needed perimeter shooting in the deal. Even if Patterson is the better player I doubt it would be a deal breaker as far as the Nuggets are concerned considering the benefits of trading Kenyon Martin far outweigh the benefits of having Patterson over Richardson.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting phiLA:</div><div class="quote_post">not any "big names", but yes there is. jason terry, jon barry, NVE, voshon lenard (could resign with nuggets). there are still a few, and ill look them up later if you want me too. but like i said, there are some three point shooters out there, but there just isnt any "big names"</div>

Can the Nuggets get Jason Terry? I'm pretty sure Jon Barry retired. NVE? He's probably going to retire if he gets his ring this year. Lenard I guess could work. You forgot to mention Van Horn. He's a free agent this summer. But let's just say they do get one of these guys, when are they going to play them if they still have Ruben Patterson?

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting phiLA:</div><div class="quote_post">yes, i think the trades seem reasonable, and have a chance of accurring, especially the jalen rose and wally scheizerback trade. (spelling)</div>

Good. So if all the trades happen the Knicks will be left with:

PG-Jasikevicius, Snow
SG-Crawford, Patterson
SF-Wally, Harpring
PF-Boozer, K-Mart
C-Big Z, Jeff Foster

What do you think? This team looks like it matches up well with the Nets and can compete with the Pistons and Heat. Contender?


Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Gooden plays defense??? I did not know that! Everytime I heard a Cavaliers fan talk about Gooden they complained about his defense. In that case Marbury and Frye for Big Z, Eric Snow and a first rounder is fine by me.</div>

what i meant when i said defense was rebounding. lol. the guy is a fierce player in the paint and battles for a lot of rebounds. also, he is one of the best offensive rebounders in the league.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Yup. The way Knick fans(not necessarily on this board) talk about Channing Frye you'd swear he was the Messiah or worse Tim Duncan. I've even heard someone compare him to Bob Macadoo. In my opinion Knicks fans are high on him because everything else went so wrong this season so their just reaching to find something good. There is a chance he ends up being as good as Okur is but I wouldnt bet on it. Fans of other teams think he'll be great because of the numbers he puts up. As far as I'm concerned he's just a jumpshooting big man that needs to be set up by other players to score. He's not as soft as I expected but he certaintly prefers standing out in the perimeter to shoot the jumper as opposed to working in the paint. Like I said Big Z is one of the top centers in the league and I would definetely trade Frye for him.</div>

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">They could just play Francis at the shooting guard. He's certainly an upgrade over Gordan Girichek(spelling?) or whoever else they have at shooting guard. They get a quality guard and the Knicks get a quality big man. It certainly seems like a good deal for both parties.</div>

could work, but after thinking about it, there is an old saying "never trade a big for a small." in this case, it is special since the jazz gm doesnt like boozer, and would love to move him.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Martin was playing in the perfect system for him alongside the perfect point guard which is why he looked so good and has struggled ever since. The Nuggets would certainly benefit from the Patterson-Richardson swap. They get some badly needed perimeter shooting in the deal. Even if Patterson is the better player I doubt it would be a deal breaker as far as the Nuggets are concerned considering the benefits of trading Kenyon Martin far outweigh the benefits of having Patterson over Richardson.</div>

the only thing, again, is that richardson's contract runs up to 09 and patterson's contract runs up to 06. just do a mo taylor and kenyon martin swap.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Can the Nuggets get Jason Terry? I'm pretty sure Jon Barry retired. NVE? He's probably going to retire if he gets his ring this year. Lenard I guess could work. You forgot to mention Van Horn. He's a free agent this summer. But let's just say they do get one of these guys, when are they going to play them if they still have Ruben Patterson? </div>

who knows? they do have a lot of money under the cap. there is also jim jackson, rasual butler, chucky atkins?, fred hoiberg, bonzi wells? as for their play time, they would have problems if they sign a forward, but guys like butler, hoiberg, wells, and jackson can play the guard.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Good. So if all the trades happen the Knicks will be left with:

PG-Jasikevicius, Snow
SG-Crawford, Patterson
SF-Wally, Harpring
PF-Boozer, K-Mart
C-Big Z, Jeff Foster

What do you think? This team looks like it matches up well with the Nets and can compete with the Pistons and Heat. Contender?


Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.</div>

how did you get eric snow? patterson most likely wont be coming in the trade, so you will most likely still have richardson. everything else looks pretty good, but you have to understand that this isnt nba live.

there are a lot of things that come down when you are trading a player. you cant just pretend this is nba live and pull trigger after trigger, because there is still the whole chemistry issue going on. with that said, although the trades seem like they could occur, chances are they wont. chances are, the cavs wont want to disrupt their chemistry by bring in marbury and letting go big z. chances are the celts wont want david lee because they already have too many young forwards and centers. but all in all, if you just look at the deals, i think there is a chance for them to occur.

also, you have to put in consideration that you just cant put a group of players together and hope for a championship. like i said, there is still the whole chemistry going on. look at the redskins in football, every year they go out and stock up on "big names", and what do they have to show for that? one playoff appearance.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Brian:</div><div class="quote_post">what i meant when i said defense was rebounding. lol. the guy is a fierce player in the paint and battles for a lot of rebounds. also, he is one of the best offensive rebounders in the league.</div>

Oh yeah that goes without saying. But his man to man defense leaves alot to be desired or so I hear.



<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Brian:</div><div class="quote_post">could work, but after thinking about it, there is an old saying "never trade a big for a small." in this case, it is special since the jazz gm doesnt like boozer, and would love to move him.</div>

Besides the fact the Jazz GM doesnt like Boozer is the fact that Okur plays the same position as Boozer and has been more productive and is paid less. They dont need Boozer as much as they need better play out of the shooting guard position.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Brian:</div><div class="quote_post">the only thing, again, is that richardson's contract runs up to 09 and patterson's contract runs up to 06. just do a mo taylor and kenyon martin swap.</div>

And Kenyon Martin's contract runs up to 2010 I believe for alot more money. Both teams will be getting the players they need and take on more salary. It is a fair trade.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Brian:</div><div class="quote_post">who knows? they do have a lot of money under the cap. there is also jim jackson, rasual butler, chucky atkins?, fred hoiberg, bonzi wells? as for their play time, they would have problems if they sign a forward, but guys like butler, hoiberg, wells, and jackson can play the guard.</div>

But none of those players offer the combination that Richardson offers. He can shoot the trey at an above average percentage, he's athletic so he'll be right at home in the Nuggets system and he plays solid defense. The money they have could be used elsewhere.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Brian:</div><div class="quote_post">how did you get eric snow? patterson most likely wont be coming in the trade, so you will most likely still have richardson. everything else looks pretty good, but you have to understand that this isnt nba live.

there are a lot of things that come down when you are trading a player. you cant just pretend this is nba live and pull trigger after trigger, because there is still the whole chemistry issue going on. with that said, although the trades seem like they could occur, chances are they wont. chances are, the cavs wont want to disrupt their chemistry by bring in marbury and letting go big z. chances are the celts wont want david lee because they already have too many young forwards and centers. but all in all, if you just look at the deals, i think there is a chance for them to occur.

also, you have to put in consideration that you just cant put a group of players together and hope for a championship. like i said, there is still the whole chemistry going on. look at the redskins in football, every year they go out and stock up on "big names", and what do they have to show for that? one playoff appearance.</div>

Eric Snow came in the Cleveland deal. The salaries dont work out if it's just Marbury and Frye for Big Z. Alright I'll assume for the sake of argument that Denver doesnt give up Patterson. I know that the real world isnt NBA Live, I wish someone would tell Isiah Thomas that. I know the importance of chemistry and having players who mesh together. And the hypothetical team above should have pleny of chemistry. There are no egos and the players all compliment each other. There are scorers like Crawford and Richardson as well as blue collar types like K-Mart and Jeff Foster. There are pure ochestrators like Jasikevicius and Snow and guys who love nothing more than to spot up for the open jumper like Wally. And versatile players that do anything their coach tells them to do like Harpring. My proposed team has chemistry in spades.

As for what you said about the Cavaliers and Celtics probably not doing the trades who knows? This is all hypothetical. I'm not running the team although I wish I was. Isiah Thomas is probably going to do something stupid in the offseason and destroy this franchise even more. But it is fun to pretend I'm the GM and wonder what trades I'd make. The Celtics will most likely do the trade simply because Wally makes too much money. They'd probably trade Wally for Jalen Rose straight up to save their money I just threw Lee in to sweeten the deal. I'm less sure about the Cavaliers however. You could be right about wanting to keep the chemistry. On the other hand Big Z's age and injury ridden past has to be in the back of their minds. Depending on how things go in the playoffs probably dictates if they'd do the trade. I think we should start a petition to get Isiah Thomas fired and me hired. What do you think?


Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">Oh yeah that goes without saying. But his man to man defense leaves alot to be desired or so I hear.</div>

yeah, i know. lol.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Besides the fact the Jazz GM doesnt like Boozer is the fact that Okur plays the same position as Boozer and has been more productive and is paid less. They dont need Boozer as much as they need better play out of the shooting guard position.</div>

then wouldnt they be better just trading for a shooting guard? boozer is a good player, and steves naturaul position is point guard. with that being said, it may be difficult for him to make the transition, and then the jazz would have an undersized backcourt, which will have its defensive liabilities.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">But none of those players offer the combination that Richardson offers. He can shoot the trey at an above average percentage, he's athletic so he'll be right at home in the Nuggets system and he plays solid defense. The money they have could be used elsewhere.</div>

well, again, he has a long contract, and i dont think the nuggets will be ready to commit to him. like i said, why not just do a mo taylor and kenyon swap? last i checked, q-rich didnt play good defense, and hes shooting a poor .335% from the field. and also, doesnt he have back problems?

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Eric Snow came in the Cleveland deal. The salaries dont work out if it's just Marbury and Frye for Big Z. </div>

ok. dont know if cleveland would want to part ways with a locker room leader and a good defender, but they still have damon jones, so i guess its possible.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Alright I'll assume for the sake of argument that Denver doesnt give up Patterson. I know that the real world isnt NBA Live, I wish someone would tell Isiah Thomas that. I know the importance of chemistry and having players who mesh together. And the hypothetical team above should have pleny of chemistry. There are no egos and the players all compliment each other. There are scorers like Crawford and Richardson as well as blue collar types like K-Mart and Jeff Foster. There are pure ochestrators like Jasikevicius and Snow and guys who love nothing more than to spot up for the open jumper like Wally. And versatile players that do anything their coach tells them to do like Harpring. My proposed team has chemistry in spades. </div>

good points

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I think we should start a petition to get Isiah Thomas fired and me hired. What do you think?</div>

im surprised there hasnt been a petition started yet. lol.

anyways, these trade proposals are much better than the ones you first had. lol.

 

i strongly strongly highly for sure doubt Jerry Sloan would take Francis on board for free let alone with his expensive and long contract AND with them having to trade Boozer, who while being imperfect is still putting up decent numbers.

Also i'm not convinced Cleveland would "jump" on the Frye and Marbary for Big Z and Eric Snow....in fact i think they'd outright refuse it. But i guess anything is possible.

The other deals look to be reasonable i suppose. I am of the feeling the pacers wouldnt want to take on Curry.....but its true they need a shake up and they're not giving up to much for him.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 02civic:</div><div class="quote_post">i strongly strongly highly for sure doubt Jerry Sloan would take Francis on board for free let alone with his expensive and long contract AND with them having to trade Boozer, who while being imperfect is still putting up decent numbers.

Also i'm not convinced Cleveland would "jump" on the Frye and Marbary for Big Z and Eric Snow....in fact i think they'd outright refuse it. But i guess anything is possible.</div>

yeah, im not so high on the boozer trade either, since you never trade a big for a small. but like tribute said, okur plays the same position as boozer, and is having a pretty good season while getting paid millions less. i just think the jazz want to get rid of boozer, so there is a chance they could trade for francis, though i doubt it.

also, if i were the cavs GM, i would jump on the frye and marbury for snow and big z trade. big z is old and gets paid a lot. you exchange him for a young and promising rookie in channing frye. then you take eric snow, who i believe is overpaid as well, for marbury, who is a decent point guard and isnt as selfish as most people think. there will be some questions with the whole marbury, james, and hughes duo, but i think they have the potential to be deadly.

i doubt most of the deals have any chance of happening, but at least they have some logic. better than what isiah can think of anyways.

 

eric snow and big z may be overpaid...but remember than Marbury makes more than both of them combined...20million a year till 08/09!!!! So either way Cleveland is overpaying for its players. Considering Big Z is a rare center who can play like a center, his making 10-11million a year can be excused i think.

If Cleveland took that deal sure they'd have a solid young PF but they'd be bound to marbury and his cap killing contract for years to come. They wont be able to trade him without giving up something or taking back something equally bad (i shutter to think).

If Cleveland really wanted to get rid of Big Z they could get more attractive offers i would think. And ontop of that New York already wants Eric Snow....could possibly swing a David Lee +throw in for Eric Snow.

I dunno..fry and marb for z and snow is possible....but i'd think teams could offer more.