Notice From My Cold Dead Hands......

So the debate isn't about actually reducing the lethality available to kill kids, just changing the look of the weapons that can be used to kill them?

 

Lol, OK. I'll just stop quoting you so I can make whatever claims I want about your stances... Then it's ok to just switch it up and make false claims that have nothing to do with anything anybody in the thread has said... As well as factually inaccurate info.

Awesome debate tactic. That'll make for a more productive conversation...

Good thing we care about making progress to save children!

 

Because republicans

 

Here ya go. You post this.

Then post this

Do you see why this is a problem?

Now on this post i quoted you. I would say "I engaged you" on this post.

 

Right, in response to you using those exact debate tactics. Every time you're proven wrong or don't have an answer you resort to childish and passive aggressive responses.

Yep, I'm happy to throw it right back in your face. I can play that game as well.

If you'll commit to stopping it I will as well.

 

And that response is why so little progress has been made. Just as bad as the Republicans on this issue, IMO.

And being so illogical convinces people who would otherwise support Democrats to vote for Republicans. It makes Dem candidates seem illogical and untrustworthy.

So they vote to support individual rights.

 

They literally ARE the reason though.

Less doors? Are you fucking kidding me?

 

Guns are the leading cause of death for kids now. Used to be cars. Nobody says remove all guns. Just like nobody said remove all cars. But we made cars safer, said hey don’t drive drunk, etc. We tried to make things better by behavior and the actual car itself. Nobody said “it’s not the cars fault”. Anyway, now guns have taken the reigns as the #1 killer, but the answer is more, bigger, deadlier guns and just keep doing what we’re doing?

 

you keep asking questions that folks have already answered about solving the problem....you just are adamant that it's not possible so what's to discuss? Many people in here have discussed solivng the problem but you've basically taken the NRA stance of not being able to see the advantages of real gun control measures and limitations on ammo...and you keep saying guns are keeping us safe from our own government or the boogie man....here we disagree....it's ok to disagree but people have engaged you repeatedly about it...I sure have at least. It's not personal...it's a topic of controversy..the country hasn't been able to provide an adequate solution...people here are just hoping and suggesting measures..to which your response has been pretty much....it's not possible to enact gun controls and nobody wants it.

 

I've told you many times. This conversation simply muddy's the water on the real issue. You know where i stand. If you want to make it about guns "looking Scary" or "caliber of ammunition" or what they are called then you are welcome to do that.
It's not "Throwing it back in my face". It's throwing it in the faces of the families of dead children.

I want common sense gun laws with more extensive background checks and i want to enforce proper storage of those weapons as well as the ammunition they fire. I want all weapons registered and i want a limit to the amount of ammunition that any one person should be able to have as well as a limit to the amount of guns any one person should own. I do not feel there is a need to own rifles with a pistol grip. I want people who own guns to have to pass not only a written test but also a hands on test that shows competency like we had in the military and like they do in places like Sweden that you have used in your examples.

These are not all i want. I also want better access to healthcare and behavioral/mental assistance. I want greater security at schools. I want better law enforcement practices. I want better surveillance systems in place.

It's got nothing to do with what guns are used for Pig hunting but if you want to make it about that then by all means keep posting it. That is your prerogative.

 

you haven't proven anyone wrong here my friend....maybe you should contemplate that...you have proven to yourself that you are justified in your opinion about it...it's ok to disagree but we're not in a court of law with "proof" ...to prove taking the guns away makes us safer we have to live for a while without guns .....until then it's not demonstrable....I'm ready to give that a try because arming the nation in my view isn't making us safer at all. It's really that simple

 

Exactly.

 

Except I have. Regarding caliber comparison, fire risks of exit only doors, and more.

And then I get childish responses. To which I return, and then it's a problem.

I don't care about proof except when it's needed to further a conversation or debate. But when the response to that evidence is childish, misinformation filled, or even outright false replies it needs to be called out.

Gun rights will be expanded this year and the rallying cry that is going on in here has been failing and losing ground for decades.

As much as you are ready for it to happen, all evidence points to it not happening in this country.

 

Lol. Right, you know a lot about guns and 30-06 is not considered an equivalent caliber to 7.62, right?

And the same number of doors that only open from the inside increases fire hazards and a multitude of other problems, right?

I guess you were right on the money this whole time...

 

not to me you haven't....a 22 short can kill a person...doesn't matter how big your bullets are....what is the real issue is how many you can discharge in rapid succession. If you think I'm rude and childish well....that's where our conversation ends. Also if you talk to any rescue professionals or firemen they'll tell you a one doored public building is a disaster waiting to happen...if you want to check people at the point of entry you have a gated station entering the grounds with security...it's what you find on any military base but it's not fail safe by any stretch...neither is a locked door....those are pretty easy to breach

 

It doesn't muddy the water. If you aren't willing to discuss the details you will never make any progress.

Bullshit. Don't try to hide your childish behavior behind those poor children. It's not going to fly with me.

Yeah, but 30 states in the country don't want that, and the states who have it still have incredibly high rates of gun crime.

So you'll be waiting decades for that, at minimum.

This will never happen. Certainly not in our lifetimes. All signs point things moving thw other direction.

This will require a constitutional amendment.

Let's talk about the likelihood of this happening...

How would removing the pistol grip have helped in any of these mass murders?

Also would require a constitutional amendment, or at least the Supreme Court to limit the protections of the 2nd. Let's discuss the likelihood of this happening. And what time frame...

All reasonable, and I encourage further discussion on these...

Here we go with more of your childish bullshit. You are the one focusing on that, not me. I brought it up with a link proving that it was 1 of several types of hunting that people use thw AR platform for.

If you are afraid to learn that is your prerogative. I don't hold grudges, but if you keep coming at me with your childish and disrespectful bullshit you're going to get it right back.

 

Great, let's discuss this.

I don't think that of you. You haven't displayed that behavior, and I didn't direct that at you.

If it seemed I did then I sincerely apologize.

Nobody at any time suggested a one doored building in this thread, yet I've had to try and dispel that claim at least 3 times.

This is not conducive to productive conversation.

The details of the security is an interesting conversation and one I'd be interested in having.

My kids school was built in the last 2 years with bullet proof glass, security cameras, and all doors remain locked from the outside at all times. The only way in is with a teachers key cars, or getting buzzed in by thw front desk.

There is no access to the locking mechanism from outside the door. You'd have to grind your way through the steel doors which would be incredibly loud and take an incredibly long time.

Like 15 minutes... More than enough time to allow police to arrive and to mobilize an armed defense on the inside of that door. Which the attacker would have to enter through a choke point leaving them totally exposed.

Is there another way to breach and outward swinging steel door that your aware of? Explosives?

And again, the school is beautiful. My kids love it. It's nothing like a prison and there are many exits all over the school.

 

That's great about your kid's school but.....keys can be copied, stolen and obviously teachers can be killed as well as security guard all whom probably carry keys. Also if you time it right and kids are entering or exiting the school in mass....anyone could slip into a building...or if teachers, janitors etc are opening those doors...they are vulnerable to being overpowered and having their keys taken by force....most of these murderers plan things out when they do this. Who is guarding the people with keys? Also who says the janitor isn't the guy with the Soldier of Fortune fantasies about shooting up the workplace? He has keys.....now if he didn't have access to guns...different story

 

True, but you'd still have to enter through the front entrance (the only one with the key sensor), and the front desk can see if you are a person who should have a key.

If prepared for this scenario, especially with some armed staff, I'm comfortable that none of these weak psychos who need to attack children to feel strong would be brazen enough to try and breach it.

And if they did, they would meet sufficient resistance to end the attack.

Sure, it's possible. But there is a significant staff presence outside when school starts. And they notice people who are out of place. Even when I enter with my kids they make sure to address me.

Nobody is sneaking in there with an AR unobserved. The only feasible way would be with a hand gun on your person or in a backpack...