<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">What would you consider soft?</div> Basically the opposite of Oakley
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">3 rebounds in 30+ minutes, hmmmm...I don't know if that supports his claim of not being soft.</div> First of all, it wasn't 30+ minutes, it was 29 minutes. I don't think it supports his claim of being soft. It was his very first game and he happened to struggle. We can't judge him based on one incident. I saw highlights of that game and he was pretty aggressive in his minutes. He also got to the line 6 times yesterday.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting j0se:</div><div class="quote_post">Prove to me you can play around the basket and be a defensive force, till now, this is all talk, since Fyre is talking alot of smack, he better step his game up quickly.</div> Really, very true. He was really pushed around by Jerome Beasly and Dwight Howard on the 7th, he looked pretty easily knocked around. He doesn't look like a monster, and he often avoids rough contact. He looked scared against Beasly, he made one or two nice plays. Those few nice plays were just rebounds off of angles, basically. Really, the offensive board he got late in the 4th that he kicked out to Nate was much more of a well timed leap for the ball. Frye has yet to learn the pace of the NBA game and he isn't used to the rough play, the PAC-10 doesn't play nearly as rough. Prove it, kid.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="2">"Mark Aguirre, the Knicks' summer-league coach, has treated 6-11 Channing Frye as if he were an undrafted rookie free agent. The problem is, </font></font>Frye has looked the part of an undrafted rookie free agent. "He's soft," said one agent leaving UNLV's Cox Pavilion late Saturday night. <font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="2">Frye has shown promise offensively, but has struggled alarmingly on defense, getting in foul trouble in two of the Knicks' three games. Aguirre held the Knicks' prized first-round pick to just 14 minutes Saturday when he got in early foul trouble, even though in summer league you can't foul out." </font></font>http://www.nypost.com/sports/knicks/49879.htm </div> Channing Frye claiming he's not soft is like Rosie O' Donnell claiming that she's not fat nor that she is a lesbian. Actually, just kidding. As long as Frye is intentionally fouling or throwing bodies rather than letting any scorer get by him, I don't consider that soft (more like foul prone or caught sleeping). As for getting taken out of the game early, I'm sure Aguirre just doesn't want his guy getting hurt too early before the season begins. The guy is the Knicks starting center after all. The Times or the Post always does this crap where they say, "someone said this, one person said that." Doesn't seem that credible, but I can believe Frye is pretty soft and might have a hard tim getting on the ref's good side of the whistle much like Mike Dunleavy Jr.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">Of course Isiah is going to make the claim he would take Frye over Bogut, especially now that the draft is over. He wants to support the player he chose and boost his confidence level. I liked how Herb Williams broke it down in his assessment of Frye. He said Frye needs to learn how to hold his position better on defense instead of relying on blocking the shot. This article mentioned Frye is only 250, but some have reported he's 270, and the 20lbs makes a huge difference. Knick fans think Isiah is slowly trying to put together a faster, more athletic team on the floor. With Isiah's pursuit of Swift and Kwame Brown, I don't think he plans on using Frye at Center. A proposed deal was Sweetney + fillers for Kwame Brown in a sign and trade. This would allow Frye to play the 4, and Brown at the 5, giving the Knicks a very long, athletic frontline, to go with a quick backcourt. It's a huge risk to start those two, but the Knicks have enough depth in the frontcourt to tinker around. PG - Marbury SG - Crawford SF - Q Rich PF - Frye C - Brown Another rumor today in Insider had the Knicks shopping Marbury, Thomas around, possibly for Dalembert, Mashburn, McKie, and Ollie. More farfetched than the Kwame-Sweetney deal, probably just a made up deal by Ford. Still Isiah is definitely in the search for an athletic Center whether it's Swift (masquerading as one), Kwame, or Dalembert, I'm sure he has his eye on Chandler also even though there's no chance the Bulls don't bring him back.</div> I don't know who else feels this way, but that lineup in there wins 30 games, tops. Marbury is NOT, I repeat NOT a point guard, so that leaves with turnovers, slow, bad shots, and pouting a plenty. Q Rich adds to the slow shooting nicely. Crawford has the slowest release of any serviceable shooter in the world, Dirk has a quicker release for Christ's sake. So that leaves them vulnerable to any halfway decent perimeter defense, namely 70% of the league. And that frontcourt just gets abused by any decent big men in the league. Rasho Nesterovic puts up a 20-10 on those worthless bodies. The thing that kills me is Isiah's utter lack of willingness to admit when he's wrong. In a perfect world, we hear him say twice a day in the NY rags that he was wrong about Marbury, Crawford, running a team, any coaching he's ever done, any business deal he's ever touched, and every draft he's ever flubbed (which is all of them). Well, I guess it doesn't make sense to admit those mistakes yet, wait 'till Marbury and Crawford's lifetime contracts are up, go into exile, then kill yourself and blame the NY media and Knicks fans. That sounds like a more doable course of action for our man Isiah. P.S. Sorry about that tangent, Isiah tends to get me a little upset. Hopefully I made my point before I started rambling.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting j0se:</div><div class="quote_post">Basically the opposite of Oakley </div> Now there's a man that knows what he's talking about. But don't leave out our man Barkley 6'4", and the heart of a lion. A regular rebounding machine. I guess that's what made them so great, that they waged their battles on land, not in the air. And regularly won them, that takes a great deal of effort and vigor. Especially when you're 67 and playing the Bulls (Oak) or 410 lbs. and playing for a Rockets team whose average age was about 45 (Barkley).
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Ignignot:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't know who else feels this way, but that lineup in there wins 30 games, tops.</div> I think you?re the only one who feels this way, Ignignot. The Knicks despite having a plethora of injuries last season won 33 games and their roster that they have currently is better than their previous one last season. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Marbury is NOT, I repeat NOT a point guard, so that leaves with turnovers, slow, bad shots, and pouting a plenty.</div> He?s a shoot-first point guard and to that, I say so? A vast majority of the NBA?s point guards are shoot-first and Marbury being yet another one doesn?t mean he is less of a player. Regardless of his style of play, he?s always found a way throughout his career to rack up 8 assists per game. You also mentioned him taking ?bad shots?. This season, Marbury hasn?t taken many bad shots and his FG% has skyrocketed. He shot at a career high 46% which is excellent for a guard and also a career high 35% from downtown. This season, he?s also had a career low of 2.8 turnovers a game too. Marbury has also looked for his teammates much more this season and probably the most throughout his entire career and now that he has more help offensively, you can look for him to pass much more this season. The only negative about him is his lackluster defense, really; that?s it. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Q Rich adds to the slow shooting nicely. Crawford has the slowest release of any serviceable shooter in the world, Dirk has a quicker release for Christ's sake. So that leaves them vulnerable to any halfway decent perimeter defense, namely 70% of the league.</div> I don?t know what to say about this comment. I haven?t noticed their shooting mechanics being as slow as you say they are. The fact of the matter is regardless of their ?slow shooting?, I?m sure they aren?t known for consistently getting blocked. Both of them are good shooters when taking good shots and hopefully with Marbury penetrating, it should increase their shot selection. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And that frontcourt just gets abused by any decent big men in the league. Rasho Nesterovic puts up a 20-10 on those worthless bodies.</div> Well, the offseason is not over yet and if the Knicks sign Swift, James, or Hunter, it will be much less than what you?re saying. In addition, you don?t know how Lee or Frye will turn out not to mention our veterans like Malik Rose and Jerome Williams who can cause havoc to a team with their energy and hustle. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The thing that kills me is Isiah's utter lack of willingness to admit when he's wrong. In a perfect world, we hear him say twice a day in the NY rags that he was wrong about Marbury, Crawford, running a team, any coaching he's ever done, any business deal he's ever touched, and every draft he's ever flubbed (which is all of them).</div> You?re mistaken on this. Isiah?s original intentions were for Crawford to play as a 6th man for the team, however, when Allan Houston got injured again, Crawford was the best available to fill in that void at shooting guard. He?s flubbed every draft? What about the 1995 one where he drafted the Rookie of the Year, Damon Stoudamire or the 1997 one where he drafted the superstar Tracy McGrady, or the 2004 one where he drafted Trevor Ariza with the 43rd pick. I do agree with you in Isiah might not be the best GM around, but give credit where credit is due.
You have to be a moron to think Marbury isn't a PG, since when point guards can't score? most of the greats were scoring point guards. Marbruy is a top 5 point guard in the world, without question.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting j0se:</div><div class="quote_post">You have to be a moron to think Marbury isn't a PG, since when point guards can't score? most of the greats were scoring point guards. Marbruy is a top 5 point guard in the world, without question.</div> i dont know about "without question". Kidd and Nash are hands down better while Arenas, Francis and B. Diddy are certainly capable enough to challenge for a top 5 list. Then there's Bibby and Parker who many would rather have over Marbury. I'll say he's a top 10 pg, but personally i'd rather have any of the above mentioned PG's other than Bibby.
Well Frye grabbed 11 boards the other day if he keeps this up than the "soft" label will be long gone.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 02civic:</div><div class="quote_post">i dont know about "without question". Kidd and Nash are hands down better while Arenas, Francis and B. Diddy are certainly capable enough to challenge for a top 5 list. Then there's Bibby and Parker who many would rather have over Marbury. I'll say he's a top 10 pg, but personally i'd rather have any of the above mentioned PG's other than Bibby.</div> Bibby? Marbury beats him in every stat except 3pt %, Marbury's 3pt % is 35.4 Bibby's is 36.0...Marbury is much more atheletic faster, stronger than Bibby, and has superior PG skills. Bibby has so much talent to work around with like Brad Miller, Peja, and Webber, half court players, players who if Marbury had, Steph would average 10 assist with these guys, cause Marbruy gets most of his assist in the half court, Marbury is elite at breaking down the defense. , Parker is very inconsistant, and isn't close to an all star level Francis lost his PG spot to Jameer Nelson, and even putting at Francis at PG is a diaster, cause he's not very good at running an offense. Arenas is a combo guard, first of all, he's a great scorer, one of the best in the league, I'll give you Arenas. lol Baron Davis? The guy can't even shoot 40% FG, Marbury shoots 47%, and does everything Baron does except ball hogs and jack up 3's like if its a 3pt contest, Knicks announcers use to eat up Davis for hogging the ball so much, when his man was open This is the top 5 list Kidd Nash Iverson Arenas Marbury
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting j0se:</div><div class="quote_post">Bibby? Marbury beats him in every stat except 3pt %, Marbury's 3pt % is 35.4 Bibby's is 36.0...Marbury is much more atheletic faster, stronger than Bibby, and has superior PG skills. Bibby has so much talent to work around with like Brad Miller, Peja, and Webber, half court players, players who if Marbury had, Steph would average 10 assist with these guys, cause Marbruy gets most of his assist in the half court, Marbury is elite at breaking down the defense. , Parker is very inconsistant, and isn't close to an all star level</div> I disagree that Marbury would average 10 assists with Sacramento, because it is a unique offense where ball-handling duties are shared throughout multiple positions. Bobby Jackson is an excellent back-up PG Brad Miller has the ball a lot Christie had the ball a considerable amount of time. Chris Webber had the ball quite a bit I've heard of Marbury's arrogance, and seems to be selfish, although he seems to be improving with age. For a chemistry stand-point I think that Bibby is a better choice for Sacramento than Marbury. Sacramento seemed to do well without egos until Webber got injured and he still thought he was the #1 man in Sacramento. I think that Bibby spreads the defense better with his career 3pt % being 4% higher. Bibby also takes a lot of buzzer-beats. He is their clutch guy, because Peja sort of fades in those situations and can't get open. Overall better athlete - Marbury, better chemistry maker and better fit for Sacramento - Bibby. Parker is pretty bad and totally disapeared during this years playoffs.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting j0se:</div><div class="quote_post">Bibby? Marbury beats him in every stat except 3pt %, Marbury's 3pt % is 35.4 Bibby's is 36.0...Marbury is much more atheletic faster, stronger than Bibby, and has superior PG skills. Bibby has so much talent to work around with like Brad Miller, Peja, and Webber, half court players, players who if Marbury had, Steph would average 10 assist with these guys, cause Marbruy gets most of his assist in the half court, Marbury is elite at breaking down the defense. , Parker is very inconsistant, and isn't close to an all star level Francis lost his PG spot to Jameer Nelson, and even putting at Francis at PG is a diaster, cause he's not very good at running an offense. Arenas is a combo guard, first of all, he's a great scorer, one of the best in the league, I'll give you Arenas. lol Baron Davis? The guy can't even shoot 40% FG, Marbury shoots 47%, and does everything Baron does except ball hogs and jack up 3's like if its a 3pt contest, Knicks announcers use to eat up Davis for hogging the ball so much, when his man was open This is the top 5 list Kidd Nash Iverson Arenas Marbury</div> comparing stats between different players in differenet situations on different teams isnt the best way to prove who's better than who. Especially when what you say is inaccurate, Bibby has better rebounding, steals and blocks with slightly lower ppg and assists while playing 1.5minutes less per game. Not exactly a blowout when you consider that Marbury is much more "THE KNICKS" than Bibby is "The Queens" First off Marbury COULDNT work in the Sac offensive role. Its works around big men handling the ball alot of the time not head strong PG's looking for thier shot first second and third. Bibby is necessary in their system Marbury would be a disaster. That said i still think Marbury is a slightly better PG than Bibby overall, its my opinion, though him being "without question" better is wrong. Same goes for Francis, Arenas and Parker (both of which i think are better than Marbury) and B. Davis, Bibby who are probably slightly weaker overall. I dont look at Iverson as a PG but then i guess he's as much one as Marbury so in that case i'd have to go 1)Kidd 2)Nash 3)Iverson 4)Arenas 5)Parker 6)Francis 7)Marbury 8)B.Diddy 9)Bibby
Steve Francis is a cancer, if he left Orlando right now Dwight Howard would average 20 and 10, and Orlando would make the 7th seed. Tony Parker is just a role player on the Spurs, he'll never be all star caliber, just a good starter. Parker does nothing better than Marbury Marbury and Davis is debetable, but I don't understand who would want a PG who's not even going to shoot 40% for your team.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting j0se:</div><div class="quote_post">Steve Francis is a cancer, if he left Orlando right now Dwight Howard would average 20 and 10, and Orlando would make the 7th seed. Tony Parker is just a role player on the Spurs, he'll never be all star caliber, just a good starter. Parker does nothing better than Marbury Marbury and Davis is debetable, but I don't understand who would want a PG who's not even going to shoot 40% for your team.</div> Yeah, I mean, who wants Jason Kidd right?
Indeed. Since, when fg% becomes a important measure of PG's importance? Scoring is just a part of PG's duty. Also, considering how both Marbury and Davis attempted exactly 16 per game, does that make Marbury a ball hog as well? The real duty is how PG can organize the team and make them more effective, and unfortunately that aspect of the game doesn't show up on stat sheet. Despite not so brilliant stats, Nash turned lottory team into no. 1 team in regluar season, and that's how he got MVP. Also, with Davis, players like Dunleavy, Pietrus, and Foyle upgraded their games considerably, and consequently, Davis turned 16-38 team into 18-10, including 14-5 when he started. That's the mark of being a great PG...
The main thing I don't like is the part about Bibby. Does anyone else remember when Bibby averaged 8 APG on a dismall Grizzlies team? Bibby is a great passer, and very underatted now as a passer because of the Sacramento offense, and people just looking at his assists numbers as opposed to watching how he and his team plays.
