<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TwinTowers:</div><div class="quote_post">I guess the real name of this thread is best PGs in the league.</div> Haha, I guess so. Since this topic has drifted off so far, we should talk about Frye again?right after I give my opinion. I personally think Marbury is a top 5 point guard in the league. The third or second best depending on whether you consider Iverson a point guard. Baron Davis ? obviously he has done good things for the Warriors so far, but I feel it is unfair to judge a team based on a 28-game performance. There?s tons left to do in the season and it could have been a hot streak in which the Warriors were in. Gilbert Arenas ? the man doesn?t remind me of a point guard at all. I know he is a passing point, but he simply doesn?t come across at all as a point guard. He is more of a scorer that only racks up 5 assists per night while turning the ball over 3 times. The Wizards when healthy with Jamison were a good team and I don?t know if Arenas was mainly responsible for the turnaround like Nash was Phoenix. Tony Parker ? in no way, shape, or form is Tony Parker on the level of Marbury. Perhaps eventually although I highly doubt it. Marbury is the better passer, the better scorer, and pretty much the better everything over Parker. May someone please tell me how Parker is a better point than Marbury? Steve Francis ? he?s not better as a point guard than Marbury; Plain and simple. He?s a slightly better scorer than him, but in terms of passing ? a statistic that really counts for point guards, he is not on Marbury?s level. Francis has a terrible assist to turnover ratio. Over the course of his career, he averages 6.5 assists while turning it over 3.7 times. Mike Bibby ? I think we already established Marbury was a better point guard than him although Bibby is not a pushover. The fact Sacramento plays a more passing oriented game where everyone has the ball, lowers his assists numbers, but I still think Marbury is a better passer and scorer. I can accept Iverson, Kidd and even Nash as being better point guards, though I do believe Marbury could rack up 10+ assists playing with Q and a much improved Joe. I think Marbury is a very underappreciated point guard the way people are talking. He?s always criticized for being ?selfish? when he gets you 8 assists a game. Anyway, we?re done. Let?s stick on topic, guys.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Haha, I guess so. Since this topic has drifted off so far, we should talk about Frye again?right after I give my opinion. I personally think Marbury is a top 5 point guard in the league. The third or second best depending on whether you consider Iverson a point guard. Baron Davis ? obviously he has done good things for the Warriors so far, but I feel it is unfair to judge a team based on a 28-game performance. There?s tons left to do in the season and it could have been a hot streak in which the Warriors were in. Gilbert Arenas ? the man doesn?t remind me of a point guard at all. I know he is a passing point, but he simply doesn?t come across at all as a point guard. He is more of a scorer that only racks up 5 assists per night while turning the ball over 3 times. The Wizards when healthy with Jamison were a good team and I don?t know if Arenas was mainly responsible for the turnaround like Nash was Phoenix. Tony Parker ? in no way, shape, or form is Tony Parker on the level of Marbury. Perhaps eventually although I highly doubt it. Marbury is the better passer, the better scorer, and pretty much the better everything over Parker. May someone please tell me how Parker is a better point than Marbury? Steve Francis ? he?s not better as a point guard than Marbury; Plain and simple. He?s a slightly better scorer than him, but in terms of passing ? a statistic that really counts for point guards, he is not on Marbury?s level. Francis has a terrible assist to turnover ratio. Over the course of his career, he averages 6.5 assists while turning it over 3.7 times. Mike Bibby ? I think we already established Marbury was a better point guard than him although Bibby is not a pushover. The fact Sacramento plays a more passing oriented game where everyone has the ball, lowers his assists numbers, but I still think Marbury is a better passer and scorer. I can accept Iverson, Kidd and even Nash as being better point guards, though I do believe Marbury could rack up 10+ assists playing with Q and a much improved Joe. I think Marbury is a very underappreciated point guard the way people are talking. He?s always criticized for being ?selfish? when he gets you 8 assists a game. Anyway, we?re done. Let?s stick on topic, guys.</div> Yes, he won two rings and he knows how to feed Duncan and Ginobili the ball.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting j0se:</div><div class="quote_post">Thats not such a hard task VinKanaddy </div> Oh wait, his girlfriend is someone named Eva Longoria, and Marbury's isn't! Now that's a hard task!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">I think you?re the only one who feels this way, Ignignot. The Knicks despite having a plethora of injuries last season won 33 games and their roster that they have currently is better than their previous one last season. He?s a shoot-first point guard and to that, I say so? A vast majority of the NBA?s point guards are shoot-first and Marbury being yet another one doesn?t mean he is less of a player. Regardless of his style of play, he?s always found a way throughout his career to rack up 8 assists per game. You also mentioned him taking ?bad shots?. This season, Marbury hasn?t taken many bad shots and his FG% has skyrocketed. He shot at a career high 46% which is excellent for a guard and also a career high 35% from downtown. This season, he?s also had a career low of 2.8 turnovers a game too. Marbury has also looked for his teammates much more this season and probably the most throughout his entire career and now that he has more help offensively, you can look for him to pass much more this season. The only negative about him is his lackluster defense, really; that?s it. I don?t know what to say about this comment. I haven?t noticed their shooting mechanics being as slow as you say they are. The fact of the matter is regardless of their ?slow shooting?, I?m sure they aren?t known for consistently getting blocked. Both of them are good shooters when taking good shots and hopefully with Marbury penetrating, it should increase their shot selection. Well, the offseason is not over yet and if the Knicks sign Swift, James, or Hunter, it will be much less than what you?re saying. In addition, you don?t know how Lee or Frye will turn out not to mention our veterans like Malik Rose and Jerome Williams who can cause havoc to a team with their energy and hustle. You?re mistaken on this. Isiah?s original intentions were for Crawford to play as a 6th man for the team, however, when Allan Houston got injured again, Crawford was the best available to fill in that void at shooting guard. He?s flubbed every draft? What about the 1995 one where he drafted the Rookie of the Year, Damon Stoudamire or the 1997 one where he drafted the superstar Tracy McGrady, or the 2004 one where he drafted Trevor Ariza with the 43rd pick. I do agree with you in Isiah might not be the best GM around, but give credit where credit is due.</div> Clearly, I must show respect and dub you quite obviously far more informed when it comes to the operations of the New York Knicks. And for that, I give you the utmost credit. I now find myself wrong on several of these counts, and can excuse myself only by saying that I was tempted to unnecessarily bash Isiah Thomas. I think that's not entirely useful anymore, and I apologize for that. He's worth a knock now and again, but not all the time, and I abused that privilege. Thank you for setting me straight and I'll wait for far more obvious excuses to harangue him in the future.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting j0se:</div><div class="quote_post">You have to be a moron to think Marbury isn't a PG, since when point guards can't score? most of the greats were scoring point guards. </div> Last time I'll say anything on here. That's certainly true, the best ever could score, but they weren't shoot-first, that's for certain, and that's what qualifies Marbury as more of 2 than a 1. And more than anything, the best ones ever were guys that made their teammates better. Marbury most certainly doesn't do that. I'm not saying point guards can't score, but at the very least, they should make scoring at least an option for the rest of their team. "Starbury" doesn't pull that off, at all. The best ones ever weren't shoot first, and only in a very specific and meaningful role are shoot first point guards necessary or even useful. The Nets of the Mid-90's were a good example. Kenny Anderson made that offense go with his ability to shoot first and dish at the basket. Some of you may not remember that part of his career, but he personified that role, and made it even worth mentioning in that era. Sleepy Floyd was a good example, but only when he felt like it. Sam Cassell early on with the Rockets, offensive rebounds drove that offense. But Marbury's mantra hasn't fit with any team he's played with, and as a result, he hasn't amounted to jack squat. Tell me among the best ever where "shoot-first" fits in. Cousy Magic Isiah Kidd Stockton Calvin Murphy Jerry West Maybe GP Nowhere in that list (more or less indisputable) does it include shoot first point guards, with the possible exception of Isiah, and he still made his teammates a hundred times better, unlike a certain cancer in NY I know of.
Jerry West averaged 27 ppg his whole career................................................are you serious? He was a good passer, but his best attribute was scoring Calvin Murphy was a scorer more than a guy who's going to jack up 10 assist a game
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting j0se:</div><div class="quote_post">Jerry West averaged 27 ppg his whole career................................................are you serious? He was a good passer, but his best attribute was scoring Calvin Murphy was a scorer more than a guy who's going to jack up 10 assist a game</div> Again, scorers don't necessarily mean shoot first, and Marbury is shoot first, not just a scorer.
Marbury is a creator period. He can create his own shot, and create for his teammates. I understand Marbury doesnt have the Kidd-Nash like ability to allow his teammates step their level up, cause Marbury in his whole career never had confidence in his teammates, and I'm the first one in this forum to get on Marbury about that.
I agree with ignignot about the fact that Marbury plays more a SGs game than a PGs. Marbury has a more similar game to A.I. than that of Nash, Kidd, Stockton, Magic, etc. I think that Marbury should be compared more to scoring pointguards or 2 guards. So he should be compared to a Baron Davis, Steve Francis, or Allen Iverson.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SkiptoMyLue11:</div><div class="quote_post">I agree with ignignot about the fact that Marbury plays more a SGs game than a PGs. Marbury has a more similar game to A.I. than that of Nash, Kidd, Stockton, Magic, etc. I think that Marbury should be compared more to scoring pointguards or 2 guards. So he should be compared to a Baron Davis, Steve Francis, or Allen Iverson.</div> Marbury doesn't play the 2, or isn't a 2, saying that because he able to score whenever he wants doesn't make alot of sense. He's averaged 8 - 9 assist yearly, constantly, he creates in every possible way you can ask from a man on offense, breaking the defense down, and he's a great half court passer, even though he struggles in the full court fast break. Marbury and Iverson are different players, different styles. Iverson is the toughest plater in the league, the fastest, and the hardest to stay infront of. Iverson the most physical contract considering his size of 6 feet and 170lbs Iverson isn't passive, he's not afraid to jack up shots. Marbury is opposite, he's careful with proctecting the ball, he doesnt turn it over, and has a very good to assist to turnover ratio. Marbury is 202, Marbury is a bulldog, he's so strong, when you try to foul him, he doesnt move left or right, he just moves straight at you, you can't move Marbury, or force him to flop, he's that strong. Marbury doesnt fit at the 2, he should carry the ball up the court every play, every minute, he's a PG, he doesnt have to jack up 10 assist a game , 8 is great, and impressive. Marbury isn't a pure PG, but that doesnt mean you say he's a SG, all Point guards are different.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting j0se:</div><div class="quote_post">Marbury doesn't play the 2, or isn't a 2, saying that because he able to score whenever he wants doesn't make alot of sense. Marbury doesnt fit at the 2, he should carry the ball up the court every play, every minute, he's a PG, he doesnt have to jack up 10 assist a game , 8 is great, and impressive. Marbury isn't a pure PG, but that doesnt mean you say he's a SG, all Point guards are different.</div> I think Larry Brown and I disagree.
