Fuck this healthcare Reform...

The problem here is that you think there's an "argument."

I have no argument with your claim that we have the richest poor people in the world. I don't know if that's true or false. I have my doubts (Scandinavia?) but that doesn't interest me.

Anyway, your "argument" had nothing to do with anything I had said. I assumed we had moved into the free for all faze of this thread so I gave my opinions on a few things.

 

………………….._,,-~’’’¯¯¯’’~-,,
………………..,-‘’ ; ; ;_,,---,,_ ; ;’’-,…………………………….._,,,---,,_
……………….,’ ; ; ;,-‘ , , , , , ‘-, ; ;’-,,,,---~~’’’’’’~--,,,_…..,,-~’’ ; ; ; ;__;’-,
……………….| ; ; ;,’ , , , _,,-~’’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ¯’’~’-,,_ ,,-~’’ , , ‘, ;’,
……………….’, ; ; ‘-, ,-~’’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’’-, , , , , ,’ ; |
…………………’, ; ;,’’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’-, , ,-‘ ;,-‘
………………….,’-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’’-‘ ;,,-‘
………………..,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;__ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘-,’
………………,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,-‘’¯: : ’’-, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; _ ; ; ; ; ;’,
……………..,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;| : : : : : ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ,-‘’¯: ¯’’-, ; ; ;’,
…………….,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘-,_: : _,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; | : : : : : ; ; ; |
……………,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ¯¯ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’-,,_ : :,-‘ ; ; ; ;|
…………..,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ,,-~’’ , , , , ,,,-~~-, , , , _ ; ; ;¯¯ ; ; ; ; ;|
..…………,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,’ , , , , , , ,( : : : : , , , ,’’-, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;|
……….,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’, , , , , , , , ,’~---~’’ , , , , , ,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’,
…….,-‘’ ; _, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘’~-,,,,--~~’’’¯’’’~-,,_ , ,_,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘,
….,-‘’-~’’,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; | ; ; | . . . . . . ,’; ,’’------I get it where I find it!
……….,’ ; ;,-, ; ;, ; ; ;, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘, ; ;’, . . . . .,’ ;,’ ; ; ; ;, ; ; ;,’-, ; ;,’ ‘’~--‘’’
………,’-~’ ,-‘-~’’ ‘, ,-‘ ‘, ,,- ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘, ; ; ‘~-,,,-‘’ ; ,’ ; ; ; ; ‘, ;,-‘’ ; ‘, ,-‘,
……….,-‘’ ; ; ; ; ; ‘’ ; ; ;’’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘’-,,_ ; ; ; _,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ;’-‘’ ; ; ; ‘’ ; ;’-,
……..,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;¯¯’’¯ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; , ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’’-,
……,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ,, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; |, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘-,
…..,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;|..’-,_ ; ; ; , ; ; ; ; ; ‘,
….,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; | ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,’…….’’’,-~’ ; ; ; ; ; ,’
…,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’~-,,,,,--~~’’’’’’~-,, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,’…..,-~’’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ,-
…| ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,’…,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,-‘
…’, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ,’….’, ; ; ; ; _,,-‘’
….’, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ,-‘’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,’…….’’~~’’¯
…..’’-, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;_,,-‘’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ,-‘
………’’~-,,_ ; ; ; ; _,,,-~’’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,-‘
………..| ; ; ;¯¯’’’’¯ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,,-‘
………..’, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,-‘
…………| ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;|
…………’, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ~-,,___ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’,
………….’, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,-‘….’’-, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘,
………..,’ ‘- ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,-‘’……….’-, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘,
……….,’ ; ;’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ,,-‘…………….’, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’,
………,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,-‘’…………………’’-, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; |
……..,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,,-‘………………………’’, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; |
……..| ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,’…………………………,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,’
……..| ; ; ; ; ; ; ,’………………………..,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ,’’
……..| ; ; ; ; ; ;,’……………………….,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ,-‘
……..’,_ , ; , ;,’……………………….,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ,-‘
………’,,’,¯,’,’’|……………………….| ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘--,,
………….¯…’’………………………..’-, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’’~,,
……………………………………………’’-,, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’’~-,,
………………………………………………..’’-, ; ; ; ; ; ,,_ ; ;’-,’’-,
…………………………………………………..’, ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘-,__,--.
……………………………………………………’-, ; ; ;,,-~’’’ , ,|, |
………………………………………………………’’~-‘’_ , , ,,’,_/--‘

 

Which group of island people are the ones who make your mocha, sell you your candy bar at the gas station, change your car's oil, drive the garbage truck that picks up your trash, and clean the sewer you shit in? Are those "good fortune people" or "bad fortune people"?

Because to me they're just all part of society, and society doesn't work without them. So I like the idea of making sure they all have access to health care, even if it requires government action because some of them are too unlucky or stupid or lazy to do it for themselves.

 

http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/general/who-has-the-richest-poor-people-in-the-world.html

 

Ten Richest Countries (based on 2004 GNP per capital in US$)

1. Luxembourg ... $56,380
2. Norway ... $51,810
3. Switzerland ... $49,600
4. United States ... $41,440
5. Denmark ... $40,750
6. Iceland ... $37,920
7. Japan ... $37,050
8. Sweden ... $35,840
9. Ireland ... $34,310
10. United Kingdom ... $33,630


I believe there is only one country in that list that does not provide health care to it's people.

The rest are horrible socialist dictatorships that live to destroy the human spirit which naturally craves Cadillacs, cocaine, golf trips and lattes. BURN SOCIALISTS!!!!! BURN!!!!!!!

 

Here's the beauty of the new government healthcare plan . . . Are you ready??

Not a single member of Congress will be affected by it. They're all covered by their own cushy healthcare plan, which operates completely separately from ours. None of the laws and restrictions they passed Sunday night will apply to them or their families.

Is this what we mean by "representative government??"

This healthcare plan is a joke, and the fact that Congress wants no part of it should tell you a lot. If the program is so darn great, why aren't they participating in it?

 

Your life is improved by having a society around you, some of whom are in good situations and some of whom are in bad situations. And, while it's not a zero-sum game, there must be some form of underclass for there to be wealthier groups of people.

I think however you slice it, you're drawing benefits from living in a society, one that has people comparable to you, doing better than you and doing worse than you. And it's perfectly reasonable that you pay money for those benefits.

How much you (or I) should pay for that, we can and do haggle over.

 

They pass many things that don't necessarily apply to them. Does that mean all of those programs are awful? No, it isn't as good as their coverage. Doint that would probably cost a lot mroe money, and create mroe bitching. But it provides SOMEHTING. Many of those congressmen would not leave their cushy jobs to join the military. Should we criticize them every time they approve military spending, or approve presidential action into a conflict?

Look, I understand many people don't like it, and if not, that's fine. But this is just a pathetic argument against it.

 

Congress actually gets *gasp* single payer government-run health insurance. So the system they get is much more socialized than the one they just passed.

For once, I agree with Shooter. I think they should have to deal with the same health insurance package they just passed that most of us will have to. Maybe the contrast will open their eyes up to the idea of the public option.

 

But again, should they be subjected to every single thing they pass, to open their eyes? Should we send them to Iraq before they agree to send money there? Should we make them spend time in Haiti before agreeing to give aid there? Or in African nations? Should they all be forced to send their kids to public grade schools and high schools because that is the public option?

 

I think it's a bit disingenuous for them to argue that the public option or single payer is non-beneficial for people when they use it themselves. So, in that regard, I think mook's point is valid. Not that they have to be subjected to everything they make laws about.

 

Let's go back and find where I said the US had the wealthiest poor. I'm pretty sure I said capitalist societies had the wealthiest poor. The UK and Japan are capitalist societies. As for Scandinavia, there really are no poor, just a massive, segmented middle class a very few wealthy.

I'm glad we agree.

 

Interesting. Since I've lived in four countries on that list, allow me to tell you what the wealthy do for health care: They purchase insurance that allows them to be treated in the United States if they ever require serious treatment.

 

In a town hall meeting disguised as a "7th Avenue Historic District Meeting", I asked Sen. Bennet to pledge to put his family in the public option if he supported one. He tried to deflect the question by replying that was his wife's decision. I responded that perhaps his wife should cast the vote since he didn't think it was in his purview.

Oh, and why was his town hall meeting so disguised? Because our appointed senator didn't want to have to answer questions from the hoi polloi.

 

Wikipedia seems to think there are far more medical tourists leaving our country for health care than those coming in:

So yes, the wealthiest people from other countries come here to access health care available to the wealthiest of people here.

Simultaneously, around ten times as many Americans leave America to get it cheaper outside the US.

 

He should've replied, "I'm already getting government-run insurance."

 

Anecdotal evidence is awesome.

I'd love to see the percentage of people from those countries who purchase American health care.

Once again, you've shifted the conversation.

Can't wait to see where you take this next.

 

That says to me we have the best healthcare in the world, but it's expensive.