Game Thread Game #18 - BLAZERS VS NUGGETS - NOVEMBER 23, 2021 - TUESDAY - 7:00 PM (PDT) TNT

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Chris Craig, Nov 20, 2021.

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Who should replace Neil Olshey if he's fired?

  1. Danny Ainge

    12 vote(s)
    29.3%
  2. Brent Barry

    21 vote(s)
    51.2%
  3. Bill Branch

    2 vote(s)
    4.9%
  4. Other (Specify)

    4 vote(s)
    9.8%
  5. He shouldn't be fired

    2 vote(s)
    4.9%
  1. Fairly-Hard

    Fairly-Hard Well-Known Member

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    It's what I'm thinking. They could use a real solid backup that can give the same 10 mins that Zeller is giving but contribute at least a little bit. Cody Zeller just isn't giving much at all.
    Did someone pick up Boogie yet? This is the kind of player I'm thinking of?
     
  2. Fairly-Hard

    Fairly-Hard Well-Known Member

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    I disagree. It's a huge need. This team needs a solid Big as a backup.
     
  3. GDiama

    GDiama Well-Known Member

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    Cannot be huge unless you donytrust your starters. You are exaggerating. What do you expect a 15 min player to give you? Be a difference maker and take us to contender status? Then this guy wouldn't be a backup but a starter. I don't recall many backup bigs in the NBA right now that have a huge impact (talking about huge need).
     
  4. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Gimmick-hungry yob

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    So "propped up" that it's significantly higher?
    upload_2021-11-24_9-56-47.png
     
  5. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Gimmick-hungry yob

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    I don't get it. What do people want from Nurk? We're at our most successful with him on the court. He's not cluttering up the offense and he's turbocharging the defense. But all we get is moaning about him.
     
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  6. Scalma

    Scalma Well-Known Member

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    I like boogie but I don’t think he’s a fit for billups’ scheme, specifically defensively. Ideally they’d find someone more mobile. I really wish we had Nerlens Noel.
     
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  7. Tince

    Tince Well-Known Member

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    Is that true or are you flipping the cause and a effect? I don't know the answer.

    Regarding Nurk. Are you suggesting his skillset a value is so unique that it could take the entire NBA decades to figure out just how good he is? Minus a few Blazer fans who it's obvious to.
     
  8. Tince

    Tince Well-Known Member

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    Awesome, great work! Somewhat in line with what other people are suggesting.
     
  9. Tince

    Tince Well-Known Member

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    See bobf's post above for a larger, more significant sample size. Again, I'm not ripping on Nurk, but +/- is a pretty bad stat overall, let alone for a game or part of a season.

    If Nurk gets traded or leaves this summer, do you expect him to show to be the all-star level player some feel he is or is it more likely he'll be unlucky and get a 4th coach who can't recognize how good he is?
     
  10. Tince

    Tince Well-Known Member

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    Speaking for others, the posts I've read here appear to want a few things from him:

    1) Greater decision making
    2) Finish stronger around the hoop
    3) Consistent effort when his shot isn't falling or he's being scored on
    4) No passive agressive social media posts putting himself above the team

    I'm with you that Nurk does provide some productive minutes and has the ability to do things nobody else on this roster can. I don't think he's awful (like some), but I also don't think he's above having flaws that are discussed either. Nobody on this roster is.
     
  11. Cugel

    Cugel Well-Known Member

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    Let’s see how nurk does against a much more athletic Holmes tonight.
     
  12. Scalma

    Scalma Well-Known Member

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  13. GDiama

    GDiama Well-Known Member

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    My takeaway from this is CJ needs to be benched for Simons.
     
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  14. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Gimmick-hungry yob

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    Orlando's not using RoLo, and he can probably be traded in December.
    At this point we should consider waiving Zeller. Both parties can do better.
     
  15. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Gimmick-hungry yob

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    And then Little benched in favor of CJ.
     
  16. MickZagger

    MickZagger Well-Known Member

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    We want prime Vlade Divac. Is that too much to ask?
     
  17. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    I'm assuming that was a little bit of sarcasm, but it got me thinking:

    I'd wonder, since almost all basketball development starts early in high school, and in a lot of cases much earlier...I wonder if it's simply taken that long for all the levels below the NBA to develop three-ball offense. It wasn't going to happen overnight and I know for sure, having played in high school and citi-league, that most of those lower level coaches didn't believe in the three-point shot. They thought it was a sucker's bet

    that would have been prevailing sentiment until those 'established' coaches started consistently losing games to coaches who embraced the three-point shot

    I'm not just alluding to shot mechanics or offensive schemes. It would have to be coaches encouraging the shot...allowing their player to take those shots without guilt as long as if fit the flow of the offense

    I can actually see that taking a couple of decades to matriculate to the NBA. Of course, I could just be seeing stripes on a lion because I want to

    I tell you what though...in the NBA right now there needs to be a little more guilt about chucking up three's. It's a tsunami of crazy shot selection
    **********************************************

    which segues into something else connected to the three-ball: the vanishing big man. Since I'm in a wondering mood, would all-time great bigs like Kareem or Moses or Hakeem be #1 options today? I can see a role for a big like Bill Russell; a guy who rebounds and plays great defense while not demanding usage. Or a Dave Cowens like C hustling all the time while possessing a perimeter shooting game. I guess if Jokic is MVP then somebody like Walton would have a similar role. When I think about it, those all time greats would probably still be great in any era. But not so for the lesser C's like a Kevin Duckworth, or maybe even an Artis Gilmore. What about Sabonis?
     
  18. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    bobf is our resident stat guru....he's got algorithms for every hunch

    I hate him though when he proves me wrong
     
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  19. KSF-ERIC

    KSF-ERIC Well-Known Member

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    We blew out 73-9 Warriors. We have better team than that team.
     
  20. bobf

    bobf Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't being much sarcastic. If the league assessment of a player is totally at odds with analytics I'll take analytics. Of course it won't be because the league widely uses analytics. But a certain GM cough cough has been at odds with analytics (Evan Turner, the Tolliver/Hezonja/Bazemore etc. team) and I knew those were bad moves. Of course I realize the BBall analytics tell only part of the story and are flawed. Mainly because while box scores are stable and low variance, they mostly only tell the offensive story, and plus/minus regressions while they capture pretty much the whole story are too high variance and suffer from correlation problems like above where 90% of Nurk's minutes are with Dame so the regression has trouble telling who get's what share of the plus/minus pie. And Nurks 10% without Dame is too small a sample to reliably separate them.

    As far a 3-pointers, I believe it took decades mainly because of what you said - it was viewed as "a suckers bet". I remember watching games and when a player took almost any 3-pointer early in the shot clock he "settled for the 3”. Sure the 3-point offenses have improved and more players can shoot the 3 now, but it was always are great shot.

    I agree with your point though that it can be taken two far. You can use analytics to divide shots into, at the rim, mid-range, and 3-pointers and sure enough mid-range sucks. Not by a little bit. By a lot. But that's on average. If you become Morey-obsessed with the idea you will try to shoot only 3's and layups without regard to if it's an open shot. An open 2-pointer might be like a free-throw for some players.

    I think the new foul rules are pushing 3-pointers down a bit in terms of relative efficiency, since drives are less productive, getting fouled less, which allows defenses to focus a bit more on the perimeter. So that's probably a good thing. A bit more balance restored.

    And yes, I do think those elite centers of the past could still easily flourish in today's NBA.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2021
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