<div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Actually, Williams had a greater increase in PER (you forgot that the Warriors play at a pretty fast pace).</div> Deron Williams was already a very good player last year and started over half of his teams games in his rookie year. He started the last 28 games of the season last year and averaged 12.5 ppg, 5.7 apg, 2.8 rpg, 0.79 spg on 44% FGs and 45% 3 pt FGs as a starter. He improved noticeably after the all star break and got better each month from February to March to April (where he averaged 13.8 ppg and 6.6 apg). In short, by the end of his rookie season he was already a very good player, he still made a great improvement but not as much as Monta and his improvement was more expected considering he was drafted number 3 overall (above Chris Paul). Monta came out of no where and no one outside of GS fans knew about him or cared about him. He only played in 49 games his rookie year (he was healthy all year) and started just 3 games. You guys already know the great increase in statistics but his game has really progressed off of the stat sheet. Over the course of the season his PG play has improved ten fold (still has a ways to go but hes very serviceable), his left hand is significantly better, hes developed a great mid range pull up shot, his FTs improved greatly, he lead the entire league in fast break points (above LeBron), he dealt with teams adjusting to him and kept finding ways to succeed, and his defense is vastly better then Williams'. In the playoffs, theres no contest that Deron has been spectacular and Monta has collapsed but over the course of the regular season Monta was definitely more improved. Monta is still young and has never played in these types of situations (Deron Williams had lots of experience playing in college in big games with high intensity), he'll get there eventually.
<div class="quote_poster">Run BJM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Deron Williams was already a very good player last year and started over half of his teams games in his rookie year. He started the last 28 games of the season last year and averaged 12.5 ppg, 5.7 apg, 2.8 rpg, 0.79 spg on 44% FGs and 45% 3 pt FGs as a starter. He improved noticeably after the all star break and got better each month from February to March to April (where he averaged 13.8 ppg and 6.6 apg). In short, by the end of his rookie season he was already a very good player, he still made a great improvement but not as much as Monta and his improvement was more expected considering he was drafted number 3 overall (above Chris Paul). Monta came out of no where and no one outside of GS fans knew about him or cared about him. He only played in 49 games his rookie year (he was healthy all year) and started just 3 games. You guys already know the great increase in statistics but his game has really progressed off of the stat sheet. Over the course of the season his PG play has improved ten fold (still has a ways to go but hes very serviceable), his left hand is significantly better, hes developed a great mid range pull up shot, his FTs improved greatly, he lead the entire league in fast break points (above LeBron), he dealt with teams adjusting to him and kept finding ways to succeed, and his defense is vastly better then Williams'. In the playoffs, theres no contest that Deron has been spectacular and Monta has collapsed but over the course of the regular season Monta was definitely more improved. Monta is still young and has never played in these types of situations (Deron Williams had lots of experience playing in college in big games with high intensity), he'll get there eventually.</div> Well certainly, receiving the MIP has other prerequisites but I was just pointing out a fact.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Did you lose a bet?</div> Haha, no, I'm just superstitious. The "we believe" avatar wasn't working for me, so I decided to go with a Jazz avatar. Go Jazz!
Well, I think Deron Williams was more improved, he didn't look that great his rookie year and he was a starter, while Ellis sat on the bench most of the year, and when he started he put pretty good numbers. So I think in Ellis' case, most of his improvement is due to increased minutes. But Run BJM does make a good point about how Ellis has improved a lot in terms of being a PG - passing, mid range jumper, dribbling left, and has slowed down the TO's a bit, but he still needs a lot of work in those areas. But I think the big reason is that the Jazz didn't get all that much attention this year in the media, particularly Deron Williams.
<div class="quote_poster">Gohn Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Haha, no, I'm just superstitious. The "we believe" avatar wasn't working for me, so I decided to go with a Jazz avatar. Go Jazz!</div> That just might work... hmm... No... the Jazz didn't beat the Warriors, the Warriors simply beat themselves. They are their own worst enemy... And I do think Deron Williams is a stud player. I still feel like Chris Paul should have been drafted first, but Deron Williams just adds another dimension when we think about his size and strength and his pretty good athleticism and other intangibles. Paul has to play with quickness. Deron Williams can do both. I think the draft analysts totally underrated his athletic ability much like those who underrated Carlos Boozer. And the one or two things those two players have that a lot of quicker players don't is strength and playmaking smarts. Who knows... maybe Nelson would have learned to love Ike Diogu a little more considering we lack so much strength in the paint. I blame Murphy/Dunleavy and Mullin for that one... grr... Now we have to wait on POB + Biedrins... Harrington is a wmp at PF and his hands aren't that good. I can't wait till we make that guy a bench guy in regular season. We already got Jrich to do what he does.
UTe fan...... i am sure fisher played well for you.... your team is one of the few teams (miami, houston, spurs, cleve?) that has the shot blocking and post defense to hide his liabilities and the post presence that demands double teams that allows him to get free looks and slows it down to half court for him. Jerry Sloan is a great coach.... and i am sure is well aware of all his weaknesses and puts him in a position to succeed... just as phil jackson did...... Keeping the ball out of his hands, not lett ing him run the offense but be a spot up shooter.... No matter how well he plays..... UTe fan... you have seen his air ball lay ups, his fall away dribble dribble bricks..... and his matador planted like a tree defense..... those are things that i have seen in the few games i have watched this season of utah. I think he owuld have been more heroic to me if he had stayed at his daughter's side and as Alley said .... i hope Fisher plays 48 minutes every game..... that can only benefit the Warriors Ute fan take a poll on Warrior fans and how many people wish Fisher was still here...... as if he could run in Nellie's offense And it is hilarious how .... Dick Stockton reported that Fisher asked WArriors management for a trade.... the contrary was reported and an interview with the liability himself said he was shocked....that no one had given him any indication he was being traded.... and if you remember he was pissed about it and had to take a few days to collect himself before reporting....
<div class="quote_poster">boogielew Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">UTe fan...... i am sure fisher played well for you.... your team is one of the few teams (miami, houston, spurs, cleve?) that has the shot blocking and post defense to hide his liabilities and the post presence that demands double teams that allows him to get free looks and slows it down to half court for him. Jerry Sloan is a great coach.... and i am sure is well aware of all his weaknesses and puts him in a position to succeed... just as phil jackson did...... Keeping the ball out of his hands, not lett ing him run the offense but be a spot up shooter.... No matter how well he plays..... UTe fan... you have seen his air ball lay ups, his fall away dribble dribble bricks..... and his matador planted like a tree defense..... those are things that i have seen in the few games i have watched this season of utah. I think he owuld have been more heroic to me if he had stayed at his daughter's side and as Alley said .... i hope Fisher plays 48 minutes every game..... that can only benefit the Warriors Ute fan take a poll on Warrior fans and how many people wish Fisher was still here...... as if he could run in Nellie's offense And it is hilarious how .... Dick Stockton reported that Fisher asked WArriors management for a trade.... the contrary was reported and an interview with the liability himself said he was shocked....that no one had given him any indication he was being traded.... and if you remember he was pissed about it and had to take a few days to collect himself before reporting....</div> I liked how Nelson countered Fisher entering the game by putting in Monta Ellis. That is the matchup that this team needs. Also Monta Ellis needs to get his offense going because he is the deflection-man on defense which leads to more up-pace basketball.
Yeah Monta really needs to step up. Hopefully after these two games they know now that AK47 is always there to guard the hoop so maybe they will be able to dish it out to find the open man. Another thing we need to do is stop playing 1 on 1 ball. We need to swing it around more which didn't happen in game 2. Lets get the momentum swinging our way because i know for a fact we are a better team than UTAH.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah Monta really needs to step up. Hopefully after these two games they know now that AK47 is always there to guard the hoop so maybe they will be able to dish it out to find the open man. Another thing we need to do is stop playing 1 on 1 ball. We need to swing it around more which didn't happen in game 2. Lets get the momentum swinging our way because i know for a fact we are a better team than UTAH.</div> Good point about the 1 on 1 ball. In the playoffs, the team's lack of a half-court offense has shown in the assists category. Way down from the regular season. I guess the Warriors can always try shooting only 3s for the next game, which the way game 2 went, it's a possibility for this team to shoot 60+ 3s sometime during this series
If I start seeing a bunch of Jazz avatars on the Warriors forum, I'm going to become a moderator and start banning people
Clif .... i noticed that too.... i was wondering if it would get Monta going ....having virtually no one guard him.... Gohn.... absolutley right the assists numbers are way down.... i hope to see Baron break the ten figure tonight..... with sjax, monta and j-rich approaching 5 each..... sharing the ball is what got us that 9-1 season ending run.
News about Monta Nelson says he needs Ellis on court By Darren Sabedra Mercury News Article Launched: 05/11/2007 01:35:28 AM PDT Warriors Coach Don Nelson has done just about everything imaginable to light a fire under second-year guard Monta Ellis. He has called him out publicly. He has dramatically slashed his minutes. He has benched him as soon as he makes a mistake. Thursday, Nelson tried a new tactic - some begrudging love. With Baron Davis playing himself to exhaustion, Nelson said Ellis will see more minutes in tonight's crucial Game 3 against the Utah Jazz at Oracle Arena. If the NBA's most improved player lays another egg, well, so be it. "I don't think his confidence is very high at all, for whatever reason," Nelson said. "But in Game 3, he is going to have to play. Whether he succeeds or fails, he's definitely going to play more, because I just can't play Baron Davis that many minutes." Twenty-four hours earlier, Nelson was singing an entirely different tune. At the shootaround before the Jazz took a 2-0 series lead with a 127-117 overtime victory, Nelson said of Ellis, "I have to have a shorter leash, because he just hasn't been playing that well. I have to see something pretty early, or I have to go a different way. "I love him dearly. But I don't want to waste a game getting him to play to the way he's played most of the year. You can't waste a game in the playoffs." Despite Ellis' impressive regular-season credentials - he averaged 16.5 points and started 53 games - Nelson has kept his word. But the lack of patience has come at a price. With Ellis on the bench for all but seven of the 53 minutes in Game 2, Davis had nothing left down the stretch. The Warriors star scored 36 points in 46 minutes. But he missed a free throw that would have given Golden State a three-point lead with 6.2 seconds to play in regulation and was not a factor in overtime. Davis said he will keep doing whatever is asked of him. "Coach puts me in, I'm going to play, and I am going to play as hard as I possibly can. If I've got to play high minutes and continue to play high minutes, then that's what it's going to be." But later Davis conceded, "That was tough toward the end of the last game." For Davis, it was tough physically. For Ellis, it was tough mentally. Ellis was so distraught late in the game that he buried his head in a towel. "I was frustrated," Ellis said. "I want to help this team so bad. I wasn't on the court, and it was really tough for me, not being out there, because I know I can do a lot of things to help this team win." Ellis played just 12 minutes and scored two points in the first two games against Utah. In eight playoff games, he is averaging 6.4 points, 1.0 assists and 21 minutes. That's a far cry from a regular season in which Ellis averaged 4.1 assists and 34.3 minutes in addition to his scoring numbers. "The only thing you can do for Monta is be positive," teammate Jason Richardson said. "He's a young guy, first time in the playoffs. You've just got to be positive with him, hope he breaks out of his funk. We know he can play. Everybody knows he can play. I wish the best for him." Asked what it will take to get Ellis going, Davis said, "He just has to be aggressive. He's just got to play the game and just not care. Go out there and have fun. That's what the playoffs are all about." In spite of the rough times, Ellis said his confidence hasn't dipped. He noted Wednesday that he strained a muscle in his back while reaching up to sign an autograph before Game 1, but sounded Thursday as if he is ready to make an impact. "I am going to figure a way out," said Ellis, 21, who was drafted in 2005 by the Warriors out of high school. "I've just got to stay with it, stay positive and keep working hard." If Nelson continues to practice what he preaches, Ellis will get his chance tonight. http://www.mercurynews.com/warriorsheadlines/ci_5870100
Monta Ellis, Mickael Pietrus and Andris Biedrins Have to Step Up Don't expect to see a change in Nellie's 8-man rotation. He's going with what got him here. To me, he's saying the Warriors have to execute better down the stretch. It's not about strategy, but motivation. Sack up guys! Warriors' 8-man rotation may be running out of gas Janny Hu, Chronicle Staff Writer Friday, May 11, 2007 No one will question the Warriors' emotional toughness after they rallied twice on the road against the bigger, stronger Jazz and came close to stealing a pair of wins this week. Concerns over their physical toughness, though, are piling up faster than Carlos Boozer rebounds. Golden State's eight-man rotation has been whittled down with Monta Ellis, Mickael Pietrus and Andris Biedrins all struggling, and coach Don Nelson is the first to admit that his run-and-gun Warriors are in danger of running on empty if they can't get everybody back up to speed. "Fatigue is turning out to be a factor," Nelson said. "We can get away with what's turned out to be kind of a six-man rotation in one series, but certainly you can't continue that through the second, third, fourth series. "It catches up with you." It caught up to the Warriors in Game 2, when they were blitzed by the Jazz 14-4 in overtime after hanging tough through four quarters. Baron Davis, Jason Richardson and Stephen Jackson all logged more than 45 minutes. Matt Barnes played 43. Against the Jazz, those numbers might as well be in the 50s for all the pounding the undersized Warriors are taking. "They're running with us, but they're still banging us," Al Harrington said. "They run into the paint and screen and you just feel like you're getting bounced around like a pinball sometimes. ... "You talk to Jack, it seems like he's had to bang so much, it's kind of tiring his legs out in the fourth quarters. With Baron, I'm sure it's hard on his body because he's playing at such a high level the whole time he's in there." The hope for Game 3 tonight is that the Warriors' youngsters -- and Ellis in particular -- can get hot behind their thunderous home crowd and deliver solid minutes off the bench. The second-year guard is the natural spotter for Davis, but Ellis has been so ineffective in limited time - 13 total minutes this series - that Nelson can hardly afford to have Davis out of the game. He's using Jackson and Barnes as point forwards to give Davis a breather, and the results have been mixed. The two combined for eight assists and nine turnovers in Game 1, three assists and four turnovers in Game 2. The Warriors offense has slowed into a half-court game, and Wednesday featured more one-on-one play than is typical from Golden State. Meanwhile, Davis continues to take the heaviest beating while being charged with dominating on offense and keeping up defensively with Deron Williams. Davis had multiple ice bags wrapped around his limbs after Game 2, and he yelped in pain as he was getting stretched out on a training table after conducting his post-game interviews. Jackson and Barnes are banged up as well. How long can they hold up? "If I got to play high minutes and continue to play high minutes, then that's what it's got to be," Davis said. "I'm not going to stop playing hard. I'm not going to stop taking charges or diving on the floor. You just have to go out there and sacrifice the body for the betterment of the team." Nelson reiterated Thursday that he isn't going beyond his chosen eight, so forget about seeing Sarunas Jasikevicius, Kelenna Azubuike or Adonal Foyle anytime soon. Nelson will, however, give Ellis a longer leash tonight - if only to give Davis some relief. "He's going to have to play 18, 20 minutes, no matter if he plays good or bad," Nelson said. The Warriors need them to be good minutes if they want to get back into a series that has tough matchups all around. Williams is breaking down the Warriors like Davis broke down the Mavericks. Andrei Kirilenko is stifling Jackson's offense like Jackson stifled Dirk Nowitzki. As for Boozer and Paul Millsap, the Warriors don't really have an answer there. Golden State's best bet at offsetting a brutal 46-rebound differential through two games (good for 53 second-chance Jazz points), is with its scrambling defense, which has netted 53 points off 44 turnovers. But the longer they play, the harder that gets. "We ask a lot out of the eight people that play (big) minutes, so we need everybody to perform at this point," Davis said. "The good thing about it is that we're at home and everybody plays well at home." Series schedule Utah leads best-of-seven series 2-0. Game 1: Utah 116, Warriors 112 Game 2: Utah 127, Warriors 117 (OT) Friday: at Oakland, 6 p.m., FSNBA/ESPN Sunday: at Oakland, 6 p.m., TNT Tuesday: at Utah, TNT* Thursday: at Oakland, FSNBA/ESPN* May 20: at Utah* *if necessary (times and/or TV TBA) http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...SPGMMPP76S1.DTL
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">In spite of the rough times, Ellis said his confidence hasn't dipped. He noted Wednesday that he strained a muscle in his back while reaching up to sign an autograph before Game 1, but sounded Thursday as if he is ready to make an impact.</div> I guess when things aren't going well, things just seem to pile on. Maybe Monta should read "The Secret".
