<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ May 3 2007, 02:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You never hear other players bi*ching about not getting on this ____ team. Marion is always bi*ching about it. Yes, he should have been on one of the all-defensive team, but they are just awards and shouldn't be taken as seriously as he takes them. He gets pissed at how he is overshadowed by Amare and Nash, how he should have a bigger role, comparing hismelf to Jordan, etc.. Ok, Amare takes away rebounds, but did you see when he was backing off from grabbing them yesterday that the Lakers players would just snatch them from the smaller Suns' players? He has had some awesome rebounding games this year, something the Suns terribly missed last season, so I don't see it as a problem.</div>Name any other player that comes close to deserving as much as Marion and has NEVER been on ANY of them. And they should be taken seriously, because if Ben Wallace didn't have those DPOYs, he'd still be practically a nobody. The awards are seals on your greatness.And I'm not talking about ones where there are lakers around, he can get those. The ones that are wide open and the only 2 players close are Amare and say Diaw, he should let Diaw get since he'll get his.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Something-To-Say @ May 3 2007, 04:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Name any other player that comes close to deserving as much as Marion and has NEVER been on ANY of them. And they should be taken seriously, because if Ben Wallace didn't have those DPOYs, he'd still be practically a nobody. The awards are seals on your greatness.</div>A possible championship and overall team success should be first and foremost. During a season like this, there is no need for Marion to say some of the ridiculous things he says (not even just about the all-defensive team awards, but the many other things).People know Marion is an awesome defender, many thinking he should have been DPOY. He is consistently up ther ein defensive stats, including rebounding. He will get a nice contract wherever he goes, despite not ever being on an all-defensive team, and the biggest part of it will be ebcause of defense and rebounding.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>And I'm not talking about ones where there are lakers around, he can get those. The ones that are wide open and the only 2 players close are Amare and say Diaw, he should let Diaw get since he'll get his.</div>If he has a shot, he should go for it unless it will impose a negative effect (like earlier in the year when him and Marion would fight each other for the rebound and it would pop out of bounds). But he hasn't been like that for awhile, and he did an awesome job yesterday. His attitude isn't nearly as selfish as Marion's.
Nitro was right about the fix. They both have their egos but Marion complains much more about this. All Amare said that annoyed me was about Kobe and the MVP, that's it. Both players haven't hurt us with their egos yet so it's a non-issue right now. I feel that they want to win the championship as much as anyone so the are all focused on achieving that goal.Also, Banks and Diaw have 0 trade value right now, especially with Diaw's contract. I still expect Diaw to play better than he has this year but trading him in not an option right now. If we trade Marion with someone else we could actually get some value in return. I'd rather keep the whole team together though at least the top 6 players and build from there.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Wow...that really puts this season into perspective...the TNT graphic just showed, 228 total player games missed this season due to injury for the Lakers. Tough year to say the least.</div> Yeah, it's been tough. That's why I don't really think too many offseason moves should be made this year, because of all the injuries, they looked good before the injuries, let's at least see if they can put together a good season with this team.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Something-To-Say @ May 3 2007, 05:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>And I'm not talking about ones where there are lakers around, he can get those. The ones that are wide open and the only 2 players close are Amare and say Diaw, he should let Diaw get since he'll get his.</div>No.Players are taught to be aggressive on the boards and Amare is gonna be aggressive on the boards no matter what.Why are you bashing Amare? He is the second best player on the Suns..
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>He is the second best player on the Suns..</div>What about Shawn Marion? he's been there since before the begining. It's like he keeps getting overlooked.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Michael Bryant @ May 3 2007, 04:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>What about Shawn Marion? he's been there since before the begining. It's like he keeps getting overlooked.</div>EXACTLY. THAT'S the whole point. *expletive*s like playaofthegame overlook him and say Amare's better, he wants respect. The NBA gives him no respect, and schmucks like potg don't give him respect, he's waited 8 years in the league and gone totally unnoticed while being one of the best guys in the NBA.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Michael Bryant @ May 3 2007, 06:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>What about Shawn Marion? he's been there since before the begining. It's like he keeps getting overlooked.</div>Amare was also there before this style of play came about. Amare is simply the better player than Marion. Marion is a great defender and rebounder, but also streaky and cannot create offense for himself. Amare averaged 30PPG without Nash this year.
Wow. You're saying Amare's better than Marion just because he can score? Marion was averaging maybe like 5 PPG worse w/o Nash. He's the best rebounder in the league, arguably the best blocker, and a solid defender. Amare has awful post defense, he was destroyed by Kwame time and time again. Marion's the full f*cking package, and Amare's offense and some rebounding.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Something-To-Say @ May 3 2007, 07:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Wow. You're saying Amare's better than Marion just because he can score? Marion was averaging maybe like 5 PPG worse w/o Nash. He's the best rebounder in the league, arguably the best blocker, and a solid defender. Amare has awful post defense, he was destroyed by Kwame time and time again. Marion's the full f*cking package, and Amare's offense and some rebounding.</div>No, I am not saying Amare is better just because he can score, but he can be the #1 guy without Nash. He can averaged 25-30PPG without Nash and be the man. Marion will never be more than a 3rd option on offense.Marion is FAR from the best rebounder in the league. Last year he had no center by him, and they were running and gunning which allows for many more rebounding attempts. He is a 10RPG guy, and not the best rebounder in the league. Amare is right with him as a rebounder.Marion is the full package, but when you look at the great players of the league, you can build around them and they can be a superstar caliber player. Marion will never be that, Amare is that kind of player.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ May 3 2007, 06:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>No, I am not saying Amare is better just because he can score, but he can be the #1 guy without Nash. He can averaged 25-30PPG without Nash and be the man. Marion will never be more than a 3rd option on offense.Marion is FAR from the best rebounder in the league. Last year he had no center by him, and they were running and gunning which allows for many more rebounding attempts. He is a 10RPG guy, and not the best rebounder in the league. Amare is right with him as a rebounder.Marion is the full package, but when you look at the great players of the league, you can build around them and they can be a superstar caliber player. Marion will never be that, Amare is that kind of player.</div>And this year he DID have a center and still nabbed double digit rebounds. And as for 'he's only at 10, and there are guys higher than 10', GUESS WHAT? SHAWN MARION, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU NOTICED, IS 6'7. That's 2 full inches below the next big name rebounder, Ben Wallace. Marion is in the top 5 in rebounding average each year and is far smaller than those ahead of him and most behind him. Marion's the best 2nd option in the league. And don't forget that he was top 5 in steals and boards a year or 2 ago, something only David Robinson's done before. How does this guy NOT get on a defensive team? It's a debacle.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Something-To-Say @ May 3 2007, 08:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>And this year he DID have a center and still nabbed double digit rebounds. And as for 'he's only at 10, and there are guys higher than 10', GUESS WHAT? SHAWN MARION, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU NOTICED, IS 6'7. That's 2 full inches below the next big name rebounder, Ben Wallace. Marion is in the top 5 in rebounding average each year and is far smaller than those ahead of him and most behind him.</div>That's fine, but it is still 3-4RPG under the KG's and Dwight's of the league.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Marion's the best 2nd option in the league. And don't forget that he was top 5 in steals and boards a year or 2 ago, something only David Robinson's done before. How does this guy NOT get on a defensive team? It's a debacle.</div>Marion isn't even the 3rd option on offense for the Suns. When they need a basket from someone, they go to Nash, Amare or Barbosa. Marion cannot create shots for himself.Yes, I agree, he deserves a defensive team award, but it's not something to constantly bi*ch about like he does, and it does not make him better than Amare.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ May 3 2007, 06:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That's fine, but it is still 3-4RPG under the KG's and Dwight's of the league.Marion isn't even the 3rd option on offense for the Suns. When they need a basket from someone, they go to Nash, Amare or Barbosa. Marion cannot create shots for himself.Yes, I agree, he deserves a defensive team award, but it's not something to constantly bi*ch about like he does, and it does not make him better than Amare.</div>Dude did you ignore my post? Marion is 4 inches shorter than KG and Dwight and a helluva lot smaller. To get the same amount of rebounds is outstanding. He can't create shots, but as you pointed out, he doesn't need to.And again, what other player is at his level of defense and hasn't won one. Nobody. If there were another, they'd probably be angry too. He's just vocalizing it. That's how he is, I won't playa hate for that.
Well Nitro seems to have it under control. Poll every Suns fan in Arizona and I guarentee at least 95% know that Amare is a better player. Kwame had only 1 good game against Amare and that was when he was in foul trouble so that no big deal. Marion is a better defensive player, but Amare is just a far better offensive player. He can create for himself...without a Nash or Kidd or a Marbury in his best season Marion is pathetic. His offense consists of floaters, and he sometimes misses the easy ones and ugly looking 3-pointers that he doesn't shoot at a good percentage. Even when there are so many options ahead of him he can be stopped easily of the offensive end while Amare stepped up with Nash out. And Marion is also not capable of putting up the numbers that Amare did CONSISTENTLY in the playoffs.He's a talented player and very important to his team, but he complains way too much all the time. Before this year I thought his defense way a bit overrated. I mean, he really always gets scored on by anyone good that he defends like Howard, Odom, especially in the playoffs. This year I feel he deserved it, but he just always complains...he thinks he's a top 10 player in the league and he's far from it.
Yeah, but again, he shouldn't even be guarding the likes of Lamar Odom. Odom is 6'10, 6'11, there's a big mismatch. And if you mean dwight howard that's an even bigger mismatch. And Yeah Amare can create for himself, but that and his size advantage are the only things he has on Marion.
No, Amare went up against Dwight and did a fine job. I meant Josh Howard in the playoffs when Tim Thomas was guarding Dirk. Marion may be a few inches shorter than Odom, but is only listed a couple pounds lighter and was being pushed around that whole series.Don't just list those two and pretend like it's not much. Creating for himself give Amare a far superior offensive game, and that's half of the game.This year there was a center on his team and in 37 1/2 minutes Marion had 9.8 rebounds...as a starter in 4 less minutes a game, Amare had 0.1 rebounds more. That's not a lot there, but at the same playing time he'd get about 1-1.5 more rebounds. You can bring up height all you want, but the point is that he gives us more. It doesn't matter if you are more gifted with height, the point is that he does do more regardless of that. What Marion does is pretty cool considering he's only 6'7, but pretty cool just doesn't give you more rebounds than height and strength. You could also argue that even though he's not as tall Marion didn't have to go through the microfracture surgery and work his butt off the whole summer to get back close to his original vert. jump. Amare also had almost as many blocks in less minutes and is much more intimidating inside. There was a stat in SI midway through the season showing how he changed shots but I forgot it....it was the issue with Emeka Okafor.. He also is a far better playoff performer which is the most important thing. He is easily our 2nd best player.
