Game Thread: Cavs vs. Warriors - 1/20/07

<div class="quote_poster">Run BJM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I have to note that when we run lineups with some combination of Jax/Pietrus/AZ/Barnes its really overwhelming to the opponent. They've all got quick hands and feet, defend well, are long and very athletic, they really just cause a lot of problems for other teams. I'm really starting to get sick of Barnes though, ever since that article about him knowing he's going to get a fat paycheck at the end of the season hes been playing like crap. Trade him for whatever you can get Mully.</div>

If SJax made the last shot, then everything including the drive home would have been a lot better.

Now, I've caught the hate Barnes bug, too. He drives you wild when he "tries" to make things happen. He should play just within his game, but he thinks he's Jordan or something. If Mullin can't put a deal together, we should just drop him. Better than giving the bad haircut the huge payday.

The guy we should keep is Sarunas. I think he's gonna help this team a lot at the backup PG position and giving Baron more rest.

 

<div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Seriously, I like the trade overall, but dammit I don't like Harrington at PF! I got this thing against non-passing SF/PF tweeners that aren't like David Lee or at least Shareef Abdur Rahim back when he was worthy of one-time all-star status.</div>

Non passing forwards? You mean like Murphy and Ike? Murphy is 6'10 but lets be serious....when has Murphy ever wanted to pass the ball? Or finish at the basket like a true PF? I'll give Ike with credit here because he can contort his body and knows how to get to the line but the guy never passes either.

Harrington played a horrible game and deserves every bit of criticism but the guy is a better player and fit than Murphy. His game isn't underneath the basket, it's isolated 15 feet away. I'm confident he'll get on track and shoot a reasonable %

I do agree, Jackson was awesome. I think he could give us the 15 5 and 3 Mullin wanted the entire time.

We do need another big guy backing up Biedrins, he's really all alone grabbing rebounds. That Pietrus for Nazr deal sounds good right now.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Zhone Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Pau is very mobile for a big man, he runs the floor very well and he can even drive, as he's got a nice first step. When he was coming out people weren't sure if he was going to become a traditional big man, because he can move like a small forward. He's got a long contract max contract, and he's making about $12 million a year. I doubt the Grizzlies would part with him, and I don't know the relationship between Mullin and West, though.

More than likely to get Gasol we'd have to give up a package of Richardson and young talent (probably Ellis), because West is a very stubborn negotiator. I just don't see it happening, because even Mullin would say that's a lopsided deal.
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The Grizzlies are actually rumored to be shopping Gasol, given the slow start he's had to the season after coming back from a foot injury and given the Grizzlies' current losing skid (er... season). In fact, for a minute there, it looked like Pau Gasol for Paul Pierce was a done deal.

If West were to enter trade talks with the Warriors though, I don't think he'd be as stubborn as you think. At this point, the Grizzlies are pretty much guaranteed a lottery pick, so they're slipping into 'tank' mode, so a trade that would give the Grizzlies young, developing talent in return for established talent like Gasol would work in the Grizzlies favor in terms of trying to lose games to get Oden or Durant. Tanking is unethical, but it's not a bad strategy, especially when there's not one but two franchise changers in the draft.

Just look at the Grizzlies' recent trade with the Houston Rockets. They sent off one of the league's best defenders, who is an invaluable asset for any team competing for a title with the intangibles that he'll bring, in Shane Battier, and all they basically got in return was Rudy Gay, an inconsistent rookie who, if he is ever going to develop, wasn't going to have the type of impact this season that Battier would. That trade alone tells you that West is thinking about the future and not the present.

So with that being said, I think that West would probably settle for something along the lines of Ellis, Pietrus, and a big contract, say Foyle, for Pau Gasol. I really think that deal would benefit both teams, and in the long run, the Grizzlies would probably even wind up getting the better end of the deal. A lineup with Monta Ellis, Rudy Gay, and Greg Oden would be deadly in four or five years, and Eddie Jones' expiring contract gives the Grizzlies an opportunity to make a splash in the free agent market this summer with a player who'd compliment their games.

You also have to look at the fact that Monta Ellis is going to be a free agent in a year, and one of the main factors in a player signing with a team is location, and Monta Ellis is practically from Memphis, having grown up not too far away in Georgetown, Mississippi; so the Grizzlies would probably be confident they could resign him with that important factor working towards their favor.

 

Ike's first shot as a Pacer? Completely roofed. Maybe that is what Nellie saw. A guy undersized with little hops. I am not anti Ike, just not sold he is an all-star.... I think Malik Rose more than Elton Brand.... we shall see.... Dunleavy actually played ok, had a hot 2nd quarter.... you could tell both Murph and Dunleavy were inspired to play hard..... by the way

Murph cut his hair completely down to his rookie season look and Dunleavy cut his into a Mullet.... perfect mid west cut.....

I am so over BArnes..... i ahve been saying for a few weeks that people would be jumping off his bandwagon and here it is ..... i agree drop the guy.... or if there is any creedence to the NAzr trade rumour..... i sure hope it is Barnes that is getting shipped out... The guy is a moron who now thinks he is a superstar.... he is really turning into Derek Fisher for me... EVery time he enters the game i ask why?

Stimentz.... said BArnes minutes will most likely be cut significantly.... I would play AZ over him anytime....

Harrington played nervous.... does he really have a left hand in the paint.... it sure looked ugly..... and speaking of getting roofed

bad calls by the refs.... thank you tivo .... so i could analyze.... no way did Monta travel on that play or carry as the ref called....hand on top of ball the whole time...

on that varejao board ..... first he pushed harrington under the basket sort of going over his back.... but he wasnt fouled.... he just fell backwards off balance.... bad calls... and we couldnt get anything down the stretch in our favor....

I thought the 2nd quarter was amazing how well the team was rolling.... but .... if baron was back we win this game...

I sure hope that rumour of us moving sarunas for nazr or pietrus for him is completely false...

I think it is amazing how many people are forgetting how j-rich carried the team last year and was the heart and soul of the team..... no way do i trade j-rich ..... the guy is a warrior.... i want him here to share in our success not be shipped out right as we turn the corner.... especially for a fragile AK47..... at least j-rich plays through pain..... Let's see where the team is with J-rich back

If we make any move it should be trading or dropping barnes.... BArnes and zarko and possibly pietrus at the deadline... and let this season play out

so Major will get sent back down when j-rich comes back

 

I have the pperfect trade that works under the rules :

Foyle and BArnes

for NAzr and Dale Davis

bring Dale back to the warriors.... we can use his expiring contract again

 

<div class="quote_poster">upsidedownside7 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">We do need another big guy backing up Biedrins, he's really all alone grabbing rebounds. That Pietrus for Nazr deal sounds good right now.</div>

I'm not sold on Harrington as the starting PF. We still need a power forward who can rebound and help clog the middle.

We definitely do not need another backup center like Nazr. Nazr's game is FUGGLY and we don't need his freakin' bloated contract.

 

Well, for those of us who were concerned about the Warriors half-court set, remember that these players had about 24 hours to learn the offense and all the plays. Further, three of the new players -- Harrington, Jackson, and Sarunas -- played significant minutes. They were the three new players, and they were basically the main focus of the Warriors plan last night! Of course the half-court set was going to look disorganized.

With that said, did you see how well Sarunas ran it? He looked like he had been playing for Nellie for years. He's going to be a pleasant surprise here.

But even for guys like Pietrus and Barnes -- their games suffered in part because they were playing with guys who didn't know their game. For instance, Jackson had a sweet dish to Monta -- if only Monta would've stayed with his cut. Jackson didn't know Monta likes to "fake" his cuts and then pop out.

That is really the thing about chemistry -- in part, it's about comfort and how everyone gets along, but moreover it's about learning eachothers' games so you can act on reflex -- and not have to think about what your teammate is going to do.

1.)I agree I don't see Harrington as a PF. I never have. I think if we get a legit PF, then Harrington would be the ideal super-sub 6th man:

Baron
Monta
Jackson
AK-47 / Gasol (I know, I'm dreaming here)
Biedrins

with Harrington, Sarunas, Barnes, Foyle off the bench

2.)Barnes -- this guy has a limited set of moves, and the league is catching up with him. Just like Pietrus, and how teams figured out he always goes left, everyone has figured out that, in a panic, Barnes resorts to his patented "spin-move" -- it's not a bad move, but defenders are now cutting off that spin, and he's winding up with nada. Watch -- next game, Barnes, spin move.

With that said, this guy isn't horrible. He still does some things that Nellie loves. He's long and runs extremely well. Don't forget that steal and break-away dunk last night -- that was pure athleticism. He's got great activity, and while he does make poor decisions, he still brings an energy that, before he got to Oakland, was stagnant. Remember, Barnes vitalized this team at a time when they needed it, and he even carried the team to a few wins.

When Baron comes back, and everyone is healthy, and Barnes isn't asked to create stuff, he'll be another energizing bench player in limited roles. Plus, off the bench, teams won't key on him like they do when he's a starter, and the game will come easier to him.

3.)Sarunas -- this guy is going to become a fan-favorite, mark my words. I'm about to go get my #33 jersey.

4.)Roster Balance -- I love the trade, and I'm just going to sit back and watch how things unfold for a while. But a some point -- especially if GS wants to excel in the playoffs -- this team is going to need a solid PF who can defend and rebound. Harrington will work, but it is not the ideal fit. Actually, with taller SFs like Jackson and Barnes who can over-rebound for their position, it makes up a bit. But still, defensively, it's faulty.

So, will it be a trade? Will it be a call-up/roster move (like giving Josh Powell some minutes, lol)? Or will it be resigned to the off-season? I think the Warriors are on a roll, and should look to finish off what they've started before Feb. 24th.

I think the team should try to trade for a top-tier PF. Some of these players are unattainable, but here's the list that should be on Mully's mind:

KG / JO / Gasol / David Lee / Zach Randolph / Ben Wallace / David West / Carlos Boozer / AK-47 / Marcus Camby

Are any of those realistically possible? GS is going to need a tough PF to man the fort alongside Beans. He's getting overtaxed because he's always helping his teammates on defense, fighting for rebounds, and not getting much assistance. Having a guy in there like Wallace or Boozer to bang and board with him would really free up Andris to play one-on-one defense better. His block total would go back up.

Looking at the roster, we have a surplus of guards. I would give up:

Pietrus + Foyle + Barnes for any of those forwards on that list. However, it would take JRich or Monta/Beans to get a star like KG / JO / Gasol.

I would try: JRich + Pietrus + Barnes for a star. Just because right now is the time to make a move, IMO, and we can't include Harrington or Jax in a multi-player trade. If we got Gasol in here, for instance, things would be looking up. Or, we can wait for JRich to heal and come back, and live with our shortcomings at PF... tough call.

 

The funny thing is that if Pacers fans hated Saras so much because he is slow, what will they think of Dun who is slow,can't defend and miss open shots lol
I realy liked liked how he was running team. Warriors made that 20 point break when he was at PG spot I think. And remember that Nely was using chance to test and play Monta as PG. I can't whait for next game when Davis will play. If Nely will trust Saras some 10-15 mins a game, then we will see more from Davis since he will actualy get some rest now.

 

Yeah I want to see more of Azubuike as well. I think the Warriors did their best when Azubuike was in during the second quarter. However at this point, I have more confidence in Barnes making an outside shot than Azubuike. I am not saying that Azubuike can't shoot outside, it's just that he isn't as proven as Matt Barnes this season. I think Barnes put up some good production in the game. He shot 5-11 from the field 2-5 from three point land, he had 7 boards, 5 assists, 2 steals, and only 3 turnovers. Again, if we can keep him from trying to do too much at the end of the game then nobody should complain too much. He is playing the way we hoped Dunleavy would. He seems like a good "glue guy" like others like to say.

I agree that Pietrus had some fumbles in the second half. But I think he could have had a much more productive first half if the team passed a little more. He was wide open in the corners. He even got some good buckets in a row but the team just didn't notice him or fed him much at all. It was consistantly the Al and Stephen show mixed with some rather very awesome moves by Monta in the first half.

 

^ acutally AZ has been shooting better from outside than Barnes it just seems like Barnes does better because he jacks up alot more and is in the game more, even though AZ likes to slash more than shoot. AZ is shooting .519% from outside but he hasnt played alot so it could be kinda messed up until he gets more PT. In the D-League he was 32-66 with a .485% 3point average, I dont know if you wanna go by stats because the D-league is the D-League and he hasnt played enough in the nba to tell so

 

Barnes was hot in the beginning but has cooled off dramatically. I think AZ has a smoother and better shot than Barnes

 

<div class="quote_poster">fitch4delk00 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">^ acutally AZ has been shooting better from outside than Barnes it just seems like Barnes does better because he jacks up alot more and is in the game more, even though AZ likes to slash more than shoot. AZ is shooting .519% from outside but he hasnt played alot so it could be kinda messed up until he gets more PT. In the D-League he was 32-66 with a .485% 3point average, I dont know if you wanna go by stats because the D-league is the D-League and he hasnt played enough in the nba to tell so</div>

Good points. I would like to see more of Azubuike too. I have no problem with decreasing Barnes' PT and increasing Azubuike's PT some (so maybe they are more equal). I am just saying that giving up totally on Barnes just seem irrational. I was bummed out that Azubuike played so little in the second half, where as Al Harrington kept bricking shots left and right. I was hoping that the Warriors would go Monta/Jackson/Azubuike/Barnes/Biedrins more in the second half (and first half) to go back to Warriors basketball from this season. Azubuike plays better basketball than Harrington in my opinion, or at least especially in the way Harrington played last game. If Don Nelson was more familiar with Harrington and there wasn't so much hype around him, then I think Nelson might have been better off taking Harrington out for Azubuike. So then it would be a lineup where Barnes and Azubuike are the Warriors' forwards. I still stand by my statement that there is more confidence in Barnes shooting (I suppose I should have taken out the outside part) because he has been doing it quite often such as making 6 or 7 threes in two games already and he shoots a higher FG% than Azubuike. But I agree, let's see more Azubuike. He is a good player. He is a strong defender. Right now I am more impressed with Azubuike's game and composure than Harrington's. I suppose we can say that Azubuike has a better basketball "IQ". Harrington should have went to college. It's learning time for Harrington.

 

I think the strength of Barnes over AZ is that Barnes is a better passer. His overall game is better than Barnes (steals, assists, rebounds, and hustle). But as everyone has mentioned (even Nellie) is Barnes attempts to make the spectacular play and failing a majority of the time.

The key for me is that he can pass the ball. With SJax, Harrington, Baron, and Monta all needing the ball, they need another passer with Baron to facilitate more ball movement.

However it can be argued that Barnes' passing is not necessary since he is not really a playmaker, and that maybe the team just needs someone to defend and hit the spot up jumper (Pietrus and Azu could fill the role too).

The thing about Azu is that he has a scorers mentality. I remember on a fast break in the clippers game when Azu should have passed it to Monta but chose to take it himself and got blocked. That kind of worries me.

 

Sorry to chime in so late but this loss was a back breaker. We had the huge lead, we had the game in hand. These are the kind of games we MUST win if we expect to make the playoffs. Just goes to show the importance of Baron Davis. If he goes down.......

 

It's the NBDL mentality. They gotta play for numbers so they can get fat money or wind up like Ansu Sesay. MVP of the NBDL and he gets sent back down because no team is interested in him.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Rudeezy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Sorry to chime in so late but this loss was a back breaker. We had the huge lead, we had the game in hand. These are the kind of games we MUST win if we expect to make the playoffs. Just goes to show the importance of Baron Davis. If he goes down.......</div>

We all probably know he will go down at some point and especially the seasons following. That's why I hope we keep Ellis and train him to be a point guard (Bobby Jackson/Gilbert Arenas level) because Lord knows how we always skip guards in the first round of the draft lotto or miss out on the drafts that have them because they get taken earlier.

It's like we haven't had a good center or a point guard in a long time, so I hope we have something stockpiled in case somebody is physically unable to play. I hope POB turns into something and Ellis is able to make the transition that Arenas had. Just imagine how good Ellis could have become if he was a two year college player minimum. He'll learn a few team things and other things he can do to play better when playing against the best high school players in the country.

 

<div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Just imagine how good Ellis could have become if he was a two year college player minimum. He'll learn a few team things and other things he can do to play better when playing against the best high school players in the country.</div>

If he went to college we probably would never be able to get him...

 

Barnes can pass? What? everytime the guy touches the ball he is shooting.... complete black hole ..... with two moves and a strange looking three ball.... not too mention he makes so many dumb errors....

Odd man out has to be barnes.... i hope he never gets on the floor for the warriors again.... thanks for the memories ....there's the door.

 

^Good point boogielew. I just checked his stats and he only averages 2.2 a game. I'm not sure why I thought he was a good passer.