<div class="quote_poster">boshbosh Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Did i sense an "OVER-CONFIDENCE" from this raps tonite? Perhaps after demolishing the nuggets, raps felt they could win against any team in the NBA without bringing the energy. TERRIBLE. Felt bad for Jorge, hopefully the injury isnt as bad as it looked..... but mehh, big blow for the raps... Well, bosh better step up now, afterall he's making $20 million a year. We gonna need everyone to step now, otherwise forget about getting the #3 seed in the conference. As for TJ Ford, i got nothing to say. I hope BC is watching closely. For those ppl critizing Sam's system, can u honestly say now after watching this game that TJ Ford will excell in a better system?? Dude played terribly for 3 quarters, then wants to bring the team back in the 4th... come on now TJ.... basketball aint meant to be played that way.... Jose is not healthy enuff yet, otherwise Sam would have gone with him more in this game. I say, trade TJ Ford in the off season, SIGN Jose to a multi year extension, and get a decent backup. END OF STORY.</div> I completely agree with you boshbosh. There ain't no betta person to blame SCAPEGOAT wise than TJ Ford. What's better you tell me? TJ scoring 12 points or Jose scoring 2, Parker scoring 4, Bosh scoring 4 and Graham scoring 2 (to combine for 12). Yes, TJ does belong to another team and you know what, he's starting to remind me of Mike James. How can everybody else not see this? Keep Calderon and move TJ to a team that needs a hero.
... It's barely been one season and u wanna trade TJ Ford out already? Jeez how about letting the guy grow, i don't think Calderon is any better than TJ anyways. Not to mention that this season wasn't suppose to be this successful, it was suppose to be everybody getting to know how each player's tendency, let the players grow, and soon it will be a more successful team. You Raptor fans are freaken crazy, relax a bit. And tonight's game wasn't TJ's fault alone. As you see, Chris Bosh was struggling like a bitch out there, being outplayed by Al Jefferson. If someone is to blame it is Bosh not TJ.
<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">See this where the word "scapegoat" immediately comes to mind. What were you watching for the first 3 quarters of the game? Did you not notice that Bosh got an iso on almost every play (that implies someone passed it to him) and couldn't do sh*t against Al Jefferson? He was just throwing up bricks. And, if you actually want to go a little deeper (try to follow me here), did you not notice how everyone just sat around the 3 pt. line waiting for Bosh to do something, when it was clear he was struggling? Or wait, how about our defensive effort, the fact that we were outrebounded (45 to 35), or our terrible shooting percentage (39 % from the floor) You say you're annoyed by how we lost. I don't think you understand how we lost.</div> I'm following you here, shouldn't you be passing the ball out if you're getting an iso when you can't beat the player to the basket, and NOT throw out bricks? Maybe all those players standing out on the 3 point line were waiting for Bosh to pass the ball out to take their 3 point shots. That's TJ's fault for always passing the ball to Bosh, and that's my other take on TJ, don't you notice that he only passes to Bosh. TJ, there are other players on the floor, so open your eyes.
I'm not a huge Mike James Jr. fan but I'd say we at least give him a chance to work under a different coach. If that doesn't happen his padded stats will make him attractive trade bait. My personal preference is for a smart less athletic player as opposed to the potential loaded underachiever, but hey I hope i'm wrong. You guys can all blame TJ but there were plenty of problems out there. Look at the impact of CB4 on the game between his shooting percentage and getting schooled by Jefferson on defense. Also, you can't forget the fact our offense was brutally setup today. We started by doing things that didn't work, then we continued to try them and failed. Bosh should not be in the low post if he's being triple teamed. He should be in the high post because doubling teaming immediately exposes the defense. Plus he then gets to use his quickness to drive on a slower Jefferson instead of trying to overpower him in the block. The raptors trying to force the game down low to bosh after it clearly wasn't working was completely gross. Edit: and Peterson playing 6 minutes? Joey Graham 25?
<div class="quote_poster">Gotrunks226 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">... It's barely been one season and u wanna trade TJ Ford out already? Jeez how about letting the guy grow, i don't think Calderon is any better than TJ anyways. Not to mention that this season wasn't suppose to be this successful, it was suppose to be everybody getting to know how each player's tendency, let the players grow, and soon it will be a more successful team. You Raptor fans are freaken crazy, relax a bit. And tonight's game wasn't TJ's fault alone. As you see, Chris Bosh was struggling like a bitch out there, being outplayed by Al Jefferson. If someone is to blame it is Bosh not TJ.</div> You don't think that Calderon is any better than T.J.? Just this one line alone makes me discredit everything you say right after. Try again.
<div class="quote_poster">hollagr8 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I'm following you here, shouldn't you be passing the ball out if you're getting an iso when you can't beat the player to the basket, and NOT throw out bricks? Maybe all those players standing out on the 3 point line were waiting for Bosh to pass the ball out to take their 3 point shots. That's TJ's fault for always passing the ball to Bosh, and that's my other take on TJ, don't you notice that he only passes to Bosh. TJ, there are other players on the floor, so open your eyes.</div> It seems like you haven't watched many Raptor games. The Raptors have 3 plays they run all game. Since the offense usually runs through Bosh. It's set up that way by the head coach. Dish the ball to Bosh downlow, have him post up, etc, do whatever to make the bucket, then he kicks out if defense doubles etc, so they swing the ball. Again THE OFFENSE RUNS THROUGH BOSH. Second play, the high screen and roll. The PF or C sets the screen, bam if the defense traps, bam pass to PF or C if they switch, ball goes to PF or C, and if the defense sleeps the player that has the ball will drive. 3rd, one on one play from the PG, he will drive and breakdown the D and kick or will go straight to the bucket. Thats it. Thats all Sam Mitchell does every stinking game. Thats all you see. If Calderon was any better than TJ, he would be starting and not on the bench. Don't say oh TJ got a huge extention crap.
<div class="quote_poster">hollagr8 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I'm following you here, shouldn't you be passing the ball out if you're getting an iso when you can't beat the player to the basket, and NOT throw out bricks? Maybe all those players standing out on the 3 point line were waiting for Bosh to pass the ball out to take their 3 point shots. That's TJ's fault for always passing the ball to Bosh, and that's my other take on TJ, don't you notice that he only passes to Bosh. TJ, there are other players on the floor, so open your eyes.</div> I'm not sure if you've played basketball before, but this is where a gameplan comes in. What you seem to be implying (by basically blaming all of the offense's failings on Ford), is that Sam Mitchell throws 5 players out on the court and tells them to play without giving them any directions. The reason Bosh gets the ball all the time? Because our offense is completely built around him getting the ball at the elbow. TJ isn't the only one passing him the ball there everytime. Jose Calderon does it too. All our players do. And they all set up in a halfcourt offense spreading themselves around the 3 pt. line so it'll be easier for him to get the ball. The problem is that when teams key on that (like the double teams he's been seeing) or when he's struggling (like tonight) we make no adjustments. Tonight our Plan B (hitting a lot of 3 pointers) didn't work either, so what we saw was a lot of Bosh missed shots/turnovers, a lot of TJ overdribbling/turnovers, a lot of players waiting for the ball/missing shots, and inevitably a loss.
Why are you guys so upset about Bosh being outplayed by Jefferson? Is Jefferson a scrub all of a sudden? He's been averaging 19 and 12 since the all star break, allowing him 22 and 9 is nothing to fuss about. I think the 19 turnovers and poor shooting had more to do with the Raptors losing than Jefferson or Ford's shot selection. Despite our record, our team isn't that far behind the Raps in terms of talent, so you still have to play fairly well to beat us.
Yea, you guys have definitely been a spoiler since Pierce came back. I wasn't fed up with Al Jefferson outplaying Bosh in terms of Al's stats. We all know Bosh is a mediocre defender and Jefferson's a talented kid. It was the fact that Chris couldn't get anything done on the offensive end. And also the fact that we didn't make any adjustments when you guys were defending the iso pretty well.
<div class="quote_poster">44Thrilla Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Why are you guys so upset about Bosh being outplayed by Jefferson? Is Jefferson a scrub all of a sudden?</div> It's kind of like: what if a player with pretty good potential makes your franchise player look like a complete chump. Bosh didn't exactly challenge Jefferson in any way on defense. So while Jefferson's points were at his average, the way we let him get them was disapointing.
dont be pissed at TJ cuz he got us back in the game by himself when everyone just shot up 3s while he took it to the hole.
I think TJ Ford realized that with everyone struggling, he needed to do some extra scoring and tried to carry the team on his back. I don't know about you guys, but Ford was the only one generating offence for the Raps in the final minutes. Bosh looked like Mark Pope out there on offence.
from wikipedia: <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Mark Edward Pope (born September 11, 1972 in Omaha, Nebraska) is a former professional basketball player in the NBA. He played for the Indiana Pacers, the Milwaukee Bucks and the Denver Nuggets and enjoyed his best season in 2000-2001 when he averaged 2.1 points per game for the Bucks.</div>
I can totally understand the reason many people would blame TJ Ford for some of the losses incurred this season. 1. As the PG, he shld protect the ball, distribute the ball, and score once in a while. Sorta like Nash, (and by all means, am not comparing TJ to Nash.) we all know Nash is on a different level. If TJ can model his game around Nash's plus his quickness, this kid will be wicked. 2. Tj needs to concentrate on distributing the ball more, and making everyone better, rather than scoring much.... Thats should be his first priority. We are a better team when TJ is dissing out assists, NOT when he's mostly scoring. 3. When he's turning the ball 12 plus times in a game, thats UNACCEPTABLE, thats the path to destruction for the team. And that has been the case many times this season. 4. Overall, he's got the potential to be great PG, but before that he's gotta realize PG = MORE ASSISTS, LESS SCORING, LESS TURNOVERS
Man, it hurt to see Garbajosa injured like that. The dude was yelling in pain. Here's the video for anyone who missed it (not for the squeamish): Invalid Video Link It's now Luke Jackson's time to shine.
Why are some of you blaming TJ for this loss? Like Chutney said the reason he kept passing to Bosh is because our offense revolves around him. In the 3rd and 4th Q he realized that Bosh was struggling and no one else on the team was generating much on the offensive end. He was the only player on the court that could actually get us some buckets by driving hard and occasionally dishing to Rasho or our other big men who couldn't seem to finish tonight. Would you rather see TJ pass the ball more in the 4th to team mates who seemed to be struggling or see him drive the ball where he was successful and take open jumpshots of high screens where he was getting hot? As for the Garbo injury, I didn't realize how bad his leg was messed up. It looked twisted unnaturally, and you can see Al Jefferson cover his eyes and look away because it was so bad. I just watched Sportcenter and Al Jefferson said that he knew Garbo was hurt REAL bad, and that it was hard to look because when he saw the his leg it was too twisted. Hopefully Bargnani will come back soon because with Garbo out, we'll need him back for sure. Also I can't wait for Pape Sow to start getting minutes, he's a real good energy guy we could use. But damn, we shouldn't have let Tucker go.
<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> It's now Luke Jackson's time to shine.</div> Now you know we are in trouble. Chut, why are you always protecting TJ. It seems that more and more people are seeing that TJ is not the right PG for this team, even when he is putting up better numbers recently. You always chose the blanket defense "its the coaching/play calling." Well then you can't really critisize anyone on this team cause you can use the same arguement. Tj IS THE NEXT COMING OF MIKE JAMES.....without the shot.
<div class="quote_poster">norespect Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Now you know we are in trouble. Chut, why are you always protecting TJ. It seems that more and more people are seeing that TJ is not the right PG for this team, even when he is putting up better numbers recently. You always chose the blanket defense "its the coaching/play calling." Well then you can't really critisize anyone on this team cause you can use the same arguement. Tj IS THE NEXT COMING OF MIKE JAMES.....without the shot.</div> I'm still skeptical about whether TJ is going to be as good as Colangelo is hoping too. The difference is that I don't think he's been given a fair chance in our current system. In reality, I'm more along the lines of a13x (maybe a bit more optimistic about his potential). I see his faults every game and they annoy me. I could come on here and complain about it, but almost all the time its been done already. I have no choice but to provide a counter-opinion, because people get too unreasonable sometimes. They rag on him, which is justified to a certain extent, but they don't look at the team deeply enough. There are some weaknesses to his game, but a lot of those problems are being forced upon him (overdribbling, looking to drive too much, etc.). Its the same reason why I don't put too much blame on Chris Bosh when he struggles like he did tonight (we should have adjusted), or Andrea Bargnani when he drifts around the 3 pt. line and doesn't rebound (he's not being put in the right position on offense), etc, etc. There's a common denominator with all those problems.
<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I'm still skeptical about whether TJ is going to be as good as Colangelo is hoping too. The difference is that I don't think he's been given a fair chance in our current system. In reality, I'm more along the lines of a13x (maybe a bit more optimistic about his potential). I see his faults every game and they annoy me. I could come on here and complain about it, but almost all the time its been done already. I have no choice but to provide a counter-opinion, because people get too unreasonable sometimes. They rag on him, which is justified to a certain extent, but they don't look at the team deeply enough. There are some weaknesses to his game, but a lot of those problems are being forced upon him (overdribbling, looking to drive too much, etc.). Its the same reason why I don't put too much blame on Chris Bosh when he struggles like he did tonight (we should have adjusted), or Andrea Bargnani when he drifts around the 3 pt. line and doesn't rebound (he's not being put in the right position on offense), etc, etc. There's a common denominator with all those problems.</div> I do agree with you to some degree, but these are NBA players. You can much some adjustments yourself.....you don't have to be told everything to do. Obviously if your schemes are flawed you are in big trouble. I love Chris Bosh....but i've always said, that right now he is an all-star and not a superstar. The chants at the ACC of MVP show how toronto fans are such blind homers. A superstar would not get their ass handed to them by Al Jefferson. This team still is learning how to win. CAUTIOUSLY OPTAMISTIC, get off the bandwagon and get back to reality. 1st place in the Titanic dosen't mean that much, we still have a long way to go. p.s. TJ sucks.
<div class="quote_poster">a13x Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It's kind of like: what if a player with pretty good potential makes your franchise player look like a complete chump. Bosh didn't exactly challenge Jefferson in any way on defense. So while Jefferson's points were at his average, the way we let him get them was disapointing.</div> 16 and 11 on the season and 19 and 12 since the All-Star break amounts to more than 'a player with pretty good potential'. I don't think you realize how well he's been playing.
