Re: GaMeTiMe's Mock Draft Thread [quote name='GaMeTiMe' post='81448' date='Jan 20 2007, 06:40 PM'][quote name='AdropOFvenom' post='81447' date='Jan 20 2007, 06:10 PM']I don't see the Browns passing up on Quinn. Charlie Frye hasn't shown enough for them to pass up a potential Franchise QB like Quinn, there's the Charlie Weis - Romeo Crennell connection where I'm sure Weis will put in a good word for him, Notre Dame is close to Ohio so I'm sure theres a portion of Notre Dame / Cleveland fans who would love the move.[/quote]The whole "coach connection" story is extremely overblown with a lot of the draft. You always hear about how this coach knows this coach who knows this coach, so everyone is sure he'll be going to that team. It will happen in some cases, but not all of them. Adrian Peterson is being completely underrated and no one seems to believe he's a top 3 pick, even to a team that doesn't need him as badly as other positions. It's not too late for Frye.[/quote]If members of the coaching tree hadn't used those connections already, I might agree with you that it's overrated, but in this case it's not. Bill Belicheck took Logan Mankins, James Sanders from Fresno State and Dan Stevenson from Notre Dame. Romeo Crennell also took Andruw Hoffman from Virginia. Eric Mangini used the Al Groh connection and drafted D'Brickashaw Ferguson. It's a coaching tree with a history of making similar moves and makes too much sense both on and off the field to draft Brady Quinn as he'd be very marketable for a Franchise without a face right now.You know, maybe people are 'underrating Adrian Peterson' because he can't manage to stay on the field, which is something that definately needs to be taken into consideration when you're talking about spending 40 plus million on a Runningback as a Top 3 pick. Even so, they already had decent depth with Paul Spicer who has started alot over the Past 2 years.Teams with minimal needs don't miss the playoffs. Maybe they're not pressing needs, but they have some things they could use. They could use an upgrade at QB, WR, OL, OLB Judgeing by Herm's track record, I'd say any Defensive Lineman (Jared Allen is a free agent after next season, I believe) or Linebacker is a safe bet. He tends to prefer the Veteran Stop-Gap in the secondary though. Even if Dunn is subjected to that 'Third-Down Back' role, that's enough carries that he could spell Norwood. Not to mention you have to pencil in enough Designed Run plays for Michael Vick too. [/quote]Travis Henry ran for 1,200 yards last year and if memory serves me correctly, he is signed rather cheaply. Why exactly would they cut him? Even when they do cut Chris Brown (Which is rather expected), they'd be looking for more of a Mid Round Pick Runningback then a potential Franchise Runningback. They need defensive help badly (They only ranked worse in the league at it). Give em BPA on defense.
Re: GaMeTiMe's Mock Draft Thread [quote name='AdropOFvenom' post='81456' date='Jan 20 2007, 08:06 PM']If members of the coaching tree hadn't used those connections already, I might agree with you that it's overrated, but in this case it's not. Bill Belicheck took Logan Mankins, James Sanders from Fresno State and Dan Stevenson from Notre Dame. Romeo Crennell also took Andruw Hoffman from Virginia. Eric Mangini used the Al Groh connection and drafted D'Brickashaw Ferguson. It's a coaching tree with a history of making similar moves and makes too much sense both on and off the field to draft Brady Quinn as he'd be very marketable for a Franchise without a face right now.[/quote]A lot of those "connections" were when there weren't many better picks to make though. I'm sure one or two guys would have been better and they decided on the player they picked because of the connection, but it's not in this top-3 situation where a player like Adrian Peterson is staring you in the face. And I know Brick was fourth overall, but honestly, why wouldn't he be the pick there? I don't think Mangini needed a connection to tell him about his talents. A broken collarbone? It's not a recurring injury for a running back, and honestly it's only going to result in his legs being extremely fresh due to the fact that they took zero pounding this season. He's going to be fresh, strong, healthy and ready to play in the NFL. And if you want to worry about durability, the Browns will probably be using Droughns in short yardage situations anyway.. The only reason Spicer has started a lot is due to injury and the fact that McCray wasn't ready..He's even older than Hayward. Well obviously they missed the playoffs due to QB play; what QB are they going to draft at that spot? They can use an upgrade at WR, but why more than DE? And OLB and OL are two overblown problems, theyre set along the offensive line aswell as at OLB with Peterson and Ingram (assuming Smith stays in the middle which he should). Of course Peterson is getting older, but it's not something to address in the first round as OLB isn't as rotational of a position as DE. I can't see them going DE again, Jared Allen is a good bet to be re-signed. They're pretty much set at LB except for in the middle, but there's no MLB worth picking there. What about those goal line situations? Who's going to grind out those tough yards? And just because Vick runs doesn't mean they won't pick a running back, its not like theres a limit on running plays per game. Bush will only be a rookie don't forget, so he doesn't have to be utilized immediately. He can definitely benefit a light load in his rookie year to ensure that he's 100% in his sophomore season, because supposedly he's not even completely healthy yet. Then he can step in for Dunn, when he'll be more than ready to step down. Think Lendale White this year, just less fat and more promising. :whistling: BPA such as who? Assuming they sign a corner in free agency due to the fact that they have a ton of cap room? (which is why I don't have them going corner there, that's not just some poor excuse.)
Re: GaMeTiMe's Mock Draft Thread <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>BPA such as who? Assuming they sign a corner in free agency due to the fact that they have a ton of cap room? (which is why I don't have them going corner there, that's not just some poor excuse.)</div>Anybody....name any position on defense other then OLB and the Titans have a need there on Defense. They ranked dead last there last year. They had no pass rush, and outside of PacMan Jones they had no half-decent cornerback. Travis LaBoy, Roberie Smith, Peter Sirmon, Renaldo Hill, Lamont Thompson. That's 5 starters that need replaceing IMO. I'll give you that LaBoy and Sirmon are debateable, but the other 3 have to be replaced. No question about it.
Re: GaMeTiMe's Mock Draft Thread <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ Jan 20 2007, 08:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Anybody....name any position on defense other then OLB and the Titans have a need there on Defense. They ranked dead last there last year. They had no pass rush, and outside of PacMan Jones they had no half-decent cornerback. Travis LaBoy, Roberie Smith, Peter Sirmon, Renaldo Hill, Lamont Thompson. That's 5 starters that need replaceing IMO. I'll give you that LaBoy and Sirmon are debateable, but the other 3 have to be replaced. No question about it.</div>Well like I said, I expect them to be in the market for a corner like Fred Smoot, since I think Asante Samuel will be a Jet. Smith needs to be replaced, but what DT would be a good fit there? I think Harrell is the next best DT as of right now, and I don't really like having him in the second round at all. As far as safety goes, I think they may want to give Calvin Lowry a look as the replacement for Thompson, so if they want to bring in competition it may only be a mid-round rookie or veteran. I think their defensive problems lie on the line, so it would be there that they look to upgrade, the LBs and DBs are in at least decent shape IMO. I know Irons isnt the greatest pick, but I can't see them going DB there either.
Re: GaMeTiMe's Mock Draft Thread <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GaMeTiMe @ Jan 1 2007, 03:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>25) New York Jets ? Levi Brown | Offensive Tackle | Penn St. 38) New York Jets (f/WAS) ? Brian Leonard | Running Back | Rutgers 57) New York Jets ? Ray McDonald | Defensive End | Florida</div>As much as Levi makes sense, fills a need we most likely won't be able to fill in Free Agency, and is of good value... I doubt we take him. Seriously, 3 first round linemen in 2 years? I can already hear the references to the Lions using 3 straight 1st round picks on WR's....I wouldn't complain, but I just don't think it's likely. It's be nice though, having such a studly young O-line. Leonard would be perfect. He's very versitile and can lead block, pas block, get the ball up the middle, or catch some short passes (which would Penny at QB and Schotty as the OC would equal lots of first-down passes to the FB).The only dissenting opinion on it is that the last time the Jets took a FB this high it was Roger Vick with the 21st pick in the 1987 draft. And it will just give ESPN and NFLN to play this clip all over again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZxNeFLuY98...ets+draft+picksAnd considering the news out of New York is that the Jets' front office considers Robertson a better fit at 3-4 DE and 4-3 DT than at 3-4 NT I'd say it's more likely we draft a NT. And if a NT isn't availible then we'll address a bigger need than DE, like say CB.
Re: GaMeTiMe's Mock Draft Thread <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GaMeTiMe @ Jan 20 2007, 11:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Norwood broke a handful of nice big runs which is the reason that his stats are so padded. He's not going to consistantly do that on a game to game basis as an NFL starter.</div>More chances is more opprotunity. That means more carries which means more chances for that to happen. How do you know he won't do that if he gets more carries and maybe starts? Norwood has the talent to start for a team, and I think he will show it.
Re: GaMeTiMe's Mock Draft Thread [quote name='Jon_Vilma' post='81481' date='Jan 20 2007, 11:37 PM']As much as Levi makes sense, fills a need we most likely won't be able to fill in Free Agency, and is of good value... I doubt we take him. Seriously, 3 first round linemen in 2 years? I can already hear the references to the Lions using 3 straight 1st round picks on WR's....[/quote]I wouldn't worry about the media, the pick makes sense.. They're going to show those kind of clips every time the Jets are on the clock, just like every year Well NT isn't available, and I still think you guys will get Samuel to play corner, so I don't see why an additional, young 3-4 DE would hurt. Especially since Kimo isn't going to be around for much longer and Robinson still may get some reps at NT. Well again, Bush doesn't have to start over him or get nearly the amount of carries. He may not even touch the ball once all year. But he can definitely be a nice short yardage/goalline back in his second season, once he's at 100% and Dunn is more than likely to step down completely. I'm not saying Norwood can't START, but it's rare for backs with even 10 times his talent not to split carries at LEAST 80/20. Now yes, the Falcons can wait until next year to pick Norwood's running mate once they see exactly what they have in him, but it's Petrino's ties with Bush that make me think he won't hesitate to pick him up. The Falcons weren't great this season, but in all honesty they can probably afford to pass on other positions of need, especially if they get a safety in the first round. QB is probably their biggest problem, and I think we can all agree that won't be the pick there.
Re: GaMeTiMe's Mock Draft Thread <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ Jan 20 2007, 11:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The only dissenting opinion on it is that the last time the Jets took a FB this high it was Roger Vick with the 21st pick in the 1987 draft. And it will just give ESPN and NFLN to play this clip all over again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZxNeFLuY98...ets+draft+picks</div>That clip is cruel.
Re: GaMeTiMe's Mock Draft Thread [quote name='GaMeTiMe' post='79551' date='Jan 1 2007, 03:07 AM']3) Cleveland Browns ? Adrian Peterson | Running Back | Oklahoma[/quote]Not only is his injury proneness going to keep him from this spot, but his lack of talent is going to keep him from this spot. Think of past RB's who've been drafted this high Not even Tomlinson, Edge, Ricky, Jamal, etc were drafted this highly. You're talking Reggie Bush - Marshall Faulk stock. Peterson does not have that value.Plus, there is no way the Browns pass on Brady Quinn if he's there.[quote name='GaMeTiMe' post='79551' date='Jan 1 2007, 03:07 AM']10) Atlanta Falcons ? Reggie Nelson | Safety | Florida11) San Francisco 49ers ? Leon Hall | Cornerback | Michigan[/quote]Are you serious, or were you just doing this for the shock value? The Falcons pass on Leon Hall when their most desperate need is at Corner and instead reach for Reggie Nelson, the Safety they won't need for a year or two.[quote name='GaMeTiMe' post='79551' date='Jan 1 2007, 03:07 AM']24) New England Patriots (f/SEA) ? Quentin Moses | Defensive End | Georgia[/quote]My only thing is that you listed him as a DE. At OLB he makes sense, but I doubt the Pats draft him to play DE. I doubt they draft anyone to play DE on the first day.[quote name='GaMeTiMe' post='79551' date='Jan 1 2007, 03:07 AM']29) Baltimore Ravens ? Paul Posluzny | Outside Linebacker | Penn St.[/quote]What did poor Paul Posluzny ever do to you? He's a terriffic prospect at OLB and him tumbling all the way down to the 29th pick would be an extreme pas over in talent by quite a few teams.[quote name='GaMeTiMe' post='79551' date='Jan 1 2007, 03:07 AM']31) Indianapolis Colts ? Buster Davis | Inside Linebacker | Florida St.[/quote]<span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">"The Colts will never pick a linebacker in the first round. I know how bad they need to this year, but they just don't value the position which is probably why Cato June is going to walk."</span>Sorry, just quoting what you said to me when I put Buster Davis to the Colts in MY mock draft.... then you take him and put him with the Colts in yours. Lol. Strong convictions you have! [quote name='GaMeTiMe' post='79551' date='Jan 1 2007, 03:07 AM']33) Oakland Raiders ? Dwayne Bowe | Wide Receiver | L.S.U.[/quote]With a new head coach they'll likely have both Jerry Porter and Randy Moss returning. So why take a WR when they desperately need O-line help??!? Crazy.[quote name='GaMeTiMe' post='79551' date='Jan 1 2007, 03:07 AM']42) Atlanta Falcons ? Michael Bush | Running Back | Louisville[/quote]I guess I can see it, since Bush will probably be like Willis McGahee and miss a good portion if not all of his rookie season due to his injury, and by then who knows if Dunn will still be around, or if Norwood will have panned out. But you had them passing on their desperate need at corner in the first round, they'll still need one in the 2nd round you know...[quote name='GaMeTiMe' post='79551' date='Jan 1 2007, 03:07 AM']43) San Francisco 49ers ? H.B. Blades | Inside Linebacker | Pittsburgh[/quote]WAY too high. He's a fringe first day prospect, not a fringe first rounder![quote name='GaMeTiMe' post='79551' date='Jan 1 2007, 03:07 AM']49) Jacksonville Jaguars ? Troy Smith | Quarterback | Ohio St.[/quote]If the Jags add a QB, I doubt it'll be someone with the same style and talent level that they already have with Gray and Garrard.[quote name='GaMeTiMe' post='79551' date='Jan 1 2007, 03:07 AM']61) Baltimore Ravens ? Tony Hunt | Running Back | Penn St.[/quote]Jamal Lewis has turned into a big up-the-middle back with limited outside ability.... so why are they drafting the same thing to go with him? If they are going to add youth at the spot it's going to be game-breaking youth. I wouldn't doubt they draft a guy like Lorenzo Booker in the 3rd round or Garrett Wolfe in the 5th or 6th round just to add some flash to the plenty of bang they already have with Jamal Lewis and Mike Anderson.
Re: GaMeTiMe's Mock Draft Thread [quote name='Jon_Vilma' post='81523' date='Jan 21 2007, 11:06 AM']Not only is his injury proneness going to keep him from this spot, but his lack of talent is going to keep him from this spot. Think of past RB's who've been drafted this high Not even Tomlinson, Edge, Ricky, Jamal, etc were drafted this highly. You're talking Reggie Bush - Marshall Faulk stock. Peterson does not have that value.Plus, there is no way the Browns pass on Brady Quinn if he's there.[/quote]I still don't see how he's proven to be injury prone in your eyes. He had two completely different, unrelated injuries, neither that will linger whatsoever. It's unfair to label him injury prone. I'm still waiting on this whole "Jimmy Williams to safety" thing. Yeah, he'd play OLB. I listed him at DE just out of habit. Not only is he EXTREMELY overrated, but if you want to talk about injuries, you should be talking about this guy after tearing up his knee a year ago. You're talking about collarbones and running backs, you can't ignore an OLB that tore up his knee. Not to mention, OLBs always tend to fall a bit further than people think they will. If I remember correctly, you had guys like DeMarcus Tyler still on the board at that point. I'm sorry you took such heavy offense to my comment and felt the need to sarcastically reply to me having the same pick, but not only is it the BPA for them but it's really their only need as it is. They NEVER pick LBs and don't value the position, that hasn't changed, but I don't know where else they'd go there.. They don't desperately need o-line help, they just need someone to coach up their young guys to their potential. I think Bowe is easily a better pick than any offensive lineman at that point, and we'll have to see about Moss and Porter, anything about them staying is just speculation. Again, Jimmy Williams to corner is no sure thing. And even if they are talking about it now, it's still possible that they pick Nelson and backtrack on that. I'd still like to know where you're getting this from. Maybe not fringe first rounder, which I don't think of him as either, but to say he's a fringe first day prospect is reaching a bit. They don't have exactly the same style, and even so, wouldn't you think they'd be looking for QBs that fit the mold of their offense? Because he'd be Lewis' replacement.
Re: GaMeTiMe's Mock Draft Thread As we already pointed out in another thread, the Falcons have a huge need at Saftey and Nelson would start right away. Lawyer Milloy is old, but serviceable for another year or two, Jimmy Williams is a cornerback and the Falcons have made no effort to switch his position, and Chris Crocker sucks and Lance Shulters is a backup now.I'm pretty sure he's projecting Moses as an OLB for the Pats. Warren and Seymour are their DE's and Moses is too small for a 3-4 OLB. The Problem with Poslusney is that he's a low-ceiling player IMO. He'll be a good linebacker, He'll be a good linebacker right away, but he'll never be a Great Linebacker. For a player of his size, he needs to be faster. And if he does add on weight for the next level, will that cause him to get even slower?PWNED on the Colts comment. lolI could see Bowe to the Raiders, I don't think they'll keep Porter around, just my opinion though.You do make a good point on the Troy Smith pick, plus the Jaguars have enough mediocre QB's on their roster right now. They'd need an Elite QB talent, or no QB at all.And Jamal Lewis is as good as gone, and quite honestly hasn't been very good recently as hes averaged 3.4 and 3.6 the last 2 seasons. Tony Hunt would replace Lewis.
Re: GaMeTiMe's Mock Draft Thread Updated again guys, I didn't realize I had Jared Gaither in there. A good chunk of the second round has changed.
Re: GaMeTiMe's Mock Draft Thread Quick little update, probably a bit premature of a release but I figured I'd get it up.
Re: GaMeTiMe's Mock Draft Thread <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GaMeTiMe @ Jan 1 2007, 03:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>47) Pittsburgh Steelers ? H.B. Blades | Inside Linebacker | Pittsburgh</div>After that absolutely pathetic performance in the Senior Bowl you have him in the mid-2nd? Ahead of Harris and Siler? Wow do you have a man-crush on this guy.
Re: GaMeTiMe's Mock Draft Thread <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GaMeTiMe @ Jan 1 2007, 03:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>57) New York Jets ? Ray McDonald | Defensive End | Florida</div>Why? What part of his weak performance moves him up this high?
Re: GaMeTiMe's Mock Draft Thread <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ Jan 28 2007, 11:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GaMeTiMe @ Jan 1 2007, 03:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>57) New York Jets ? Ray McDonald | Defensive End | Florida</div>Why? What part of his weak performance moves him up this high?</div>He's been that high for a while now.
Re: GaMeTiMe's Mock Draft Thread <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ Jan 28 2007, 01:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ Jan 28 2007, 11:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GaMeTiMe @ Jan 1 2007, 03:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>57) New York Jets ? Ray McDonald | Defensive End | Florida</div>Why? What part of his weak performance moves him up this high?</div>He's been that high for a while now. </div>Poor Senior Bowl, Poor Senior Bowl Practices, Poor Weight in, and him being the 12th or 13th best DE in the draft...
Re: GaMeTiMe's Mock Draft Thread [quote name='Jon_Vilma' post='82642' date='Jan 28 2007, 08:39 PM'][quote name='AdropOFvenom' post='82536' date='Jan 28 2007, 01:55 PM'][quote name='Jon_Vilma' post='82500' date='Jan 28 2007, 11:38 AM'][quote name='GaMeTiMe' post='79551' date='Jan 1 2007, 03:07 AM']57) New York Jets ? Ray McDonald | Defensive End | Florida[/quote]Why? What part of his weak performance moves him up this high?[/quote]He's been that high for a while now. [/quote]Poor Senior Bowl, Poor Senior Bowl Practices, Poor Weight in, and him being the 12th or 13th best DE in the draft...[/quote]- His weigh-in was just fine at 6033, 282- He wasn't a standout in the Senior Bowl practices, but he definitely wasn't 'Poor' either, just like everybody else he embarrassed quite a few of the South Lineman in practices.- And If you want to count the Outside Linebackers like Woodley and Spencer in there, then yeah you could rank him that low, but this draft class is stacked at DE and he could play either a 3-4 End or a 4-3 End or Tackle and he definately carries a Second Round grade.I don't know what the hell you have against him, but thank god you're not a scout. :whistling:
Re: GaMeTiMe's Mock Draft Thread Yeah Vilma he's probably the 10th best DE at best, but most of those DEs will likely go to 4-3 defenses where they fit the best. McDonald is arguably the third best 3-4 DE in the draft after Jamaal Anderson (who's more than likely to go to a 4-3 team anyway) and Carriker. And that's not counting DTs like Branch who would work at DE in the 3-4. Of course Francis is hot on his trail, but even so, I would expect both to be selected in the top 70 at the WORST.
