<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>No way Camby puts all the work all over the floor defensively Garnett does, yelling, guiding the rest of his team mid-play and pressuring guards. No way. In all the Nuggets games I've watched I've never seen him do that. Anybody whining about this needs to sit down and shut the **** up.</div> i like how your substantial argument is ended with "sit down and shit the **** up". So because Garnett supposedly talks more on defense he deserves the award...ahhh no. The only thing i would concede that KG does better is shut down his man in the post. He gave Amare Staudimire a tough time when they played this year. Also, Defense IS measured in stats. Otherwise it comes down to team defense which the CELTICS TEAM is great at. The reason for the turnaround this year was because of Pierce, Rondo, Garnett, Perkins, Davis, etc. NOT JUST BECAUSE OF KG.
So because of the stats Chris Paul, Marcus Camby, Ron Artest and Josh Smith should be the top 4 DPOY candidates? KG shouldn't even be included because defense is measured in stats. Shane Battier shouldn't even be included?
I'm not saying they shouldn't be included, in fact i think Battier would be a very legit DPOY. However, to make the argument that KG has turned the Celtics around with his stifling defense is retarded. IT WAS TEAM DEFENSE THAT TURNED THE CELTICS AROUND. I just think that Camby, who dominated the statistical defensive categories the same way he did last year when he won it, should win it again.
I also think Battier should have won it. Like others have mentioned, the main argument you can make for KG is that he played on a great defensive team. Its pretty absurd to attribute most of that team defense to KG. Did he have a significant impact on the Celtics defense? Of course. But s far as TEAM defense you have to consider coaching playing a heavy role as well as other players. Paul Pierce, James Posey, Kendrick Perkins, Tony Allen, Rajon Rondo are all considered good defenders. Lets also not forget how much better the West is than the east. Nine teams in the west won 48 games. Only three teams in the east won 48 or more games. Ten teams in the west were .500 or better, only 6 in the east were .500 or better. The west has 5 teams below .500, the east has 9 teams below .500. The west is exponentially better and, theoretically, significantly harder to dominate like the Celts did in the east. I would also make the argument that if teams like the Blazers or Kings were in the east they would be well above .500 and safely in the playoffs as a 4-6 seed. Granted, the Celtics are a great defensive team any way you slice it. You still do have to consider just how bad the east is before you start touting statistics about how legendary their defense is. Garnett isn't a horrible choice, I wouldn't even say Batter got robbed or anything but IMO it should have been Battier. Garnett's impact on defense is significant but not spectacular and, IMO even below par for his career. The thing that further troubles me is the voting. There is a clear bias toward "superstar" players who are undeserving. Garnett got nearly 500 points yet the next closest player had under 180. Chris Paul was tied with Dwight Howard in points and ahead of Tim Duncan, Tyson Chandler, Ron Artest, Andrei Kirilenko, Raja Bell, etc. Kyle Lowry got a friggen vote. Don't get me wrong, I really like Kyle Lowry all the way back from when he was playing at Villanova, but its absurd to think that he (a pedestrian backup PG) got as many votes as Billups, Artest, Kirlienko, and Rondo. Rip fuggin Hamilton is on here and anyone who's seen him play knows hes merely an average defender on a good defensive team. Where is Baron Davis? Dude defended SGs in the west every single night, averaged 2.3 steals, 4.7 rebounds, 0.5 bpg (thats one block every other game- more than a lot of big men average- from a 6'2 PG). If Chris Paul, Billups, and Lowry make it then how the hell does Baron Davis not make it on the list? Anyone who's seen him play knows he plays good man defense, he matched up with Kobe, AI, Wade, Brandon Roy, etc. every night. How about Andre Iguodala? His team rallied down the stretch, played excellent defense, he averaged 2.1 spg, 0.6 bpg, and 5.4 rpg. Hes an all-defensive team quality defender and covers elite level PG/SG/SFs every night. Josh Howard didn't even make the list while guys like Tayshaun Prince and Rip Hamilton did. No disrespect to either of them but I believe that any NBA fan will tell you that Josh Howard is better defensively than a lot of players on this list. The voting is clearly skewed by biases for whatever reason; voters fanboyism, national media focusing on certain players, giving superstars more props when they don't deserve it, etc. etc. Who the hell are these HORRIBLE voters? I don't have too much of a problem with KG winning but the voting outside of the top 4 is completely and utterly baffling for voters who we are supposed to trust as knowledgable NBA media members.
seriously, i dont understand how anyone can argue KG getting this award...do you really think anyone in their right mind would give a DPOY to a guy on possibly the worst defensive team in the league in camby??? sure it may not be his fault that his team is so bad but this is a team sport so the quality of the team DOES have something to do with individual accolades...just as when it is a toss-up for an all star spot and the player with the better team record usually goes...and shane battier?? are you kidding me...over a guy who single handidly turned a franchise around??? kevin should also get MVP but i think the media has already given that award to kobe or CP3 so this award is well deserved for KG
This was the easiest, biggest no-brainer, a 3-year-old-coulda-made-this-pick, no contest, no argument - DPOY award in years. Hands down this goes to KG. There's no debate on this one from people who watch basketball. None.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>are you kidding me...over a guy who single handidly turned a franchise around</div> absolutely untrue. i think everyone in here needs to stop suckin KGs D. Hes an amazing player, but HE DID NOT SINGLE HANDEDLY TURN THE CELTICS FRANCHISE AROUND. you are a COMPLETE moron if you think that. It was TEAM defense that got them to where they are. they have probably the best roster of defenders in the entire league. Also, if team success should have something to do with the award, then Camby should still be in it. The nuggets were a 50 win team, only 7 games behind the number 1 seed in the SUPER competitive west. Where as KG had to deal with Zach Randolph, Samuel Dalembert, and Josh BOONE on a nightly basis.
camby = great defensive stats KG = INTANGIBLES you know like leadership, setting the tone, leading by example, raising the expectations, showing commitment, changing the culture in the locker room etc etc. oh and that holding PF's to 13% below the league average for PF's is an underated stat! So KG shutting down opposing PF's, setting the tone for the teams defensive accomplishments does deserve DPOY. You're a fool if you DON'T think KG is by far the biggest reason for the Celtics turnaround. He did it beyond the numbers and the intensity he brings catches on when you have motivated players who want to win. I mean you don't think Magic and Larry motivated their teams to play at another level with their leadership? Made guys like Byron Scott, James Worthy, Kevin McHale and Danny Ainge raise their level of play just by the way they acted and carried themselves around the team? KG has done the same thing for this Celtic team this year and.
So i guess all the other good/great defensive players on the celtics aren't nearly as responsible for the turnaround in boston as KG is....sorry but thats just wrong. team defense is what changed the team. Garnett was a good defender but i think there were better this year. Not just Camby. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I mean you don't think Magic and Larry motivated their teams to play at another level with their leadership? Made guys like Byron Scott, James Worthy, Kevin McHale and Danny Ainge raise their level of play just by the way they acted and carried themselves around the team?</div> Aren't ALL of those players in the Hall of Fame?? Anyway, i think that point is more of what an MVP does, not defensive player of the year.
I personally gave it to Camby, but KG getting it sits perfectly fine with me. He transformed the Celts into a defensive powerhouse this year and was the biggest reason for their turnaround.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Answer_AI03 @ Apr 23 2008, 09:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>are you kidding me...over a guy who single handidly turned a franchise around</div> absolutely untrue. i think everyone in here needs to stop suckin KGs D. Hes an amazing player, but HE DID NOT SINGLE HANDEDLY TURN THE CELTICS FRANCHISE AROUND. you are a COMPLETE moron if you think that. It was TEAM defense that got them to where they are. they have probably the best roster of defenders in the entire league. Also, if team success should have something to do with the award, then Camby should still be in it. The nuggets were a 50 win team, only 7 games behind the number 1 seed in the SUPER competitive west. Where as KG had to deal with Zach Randolph, Samuel Dalembert, and Josh BOONE on a nightly basis. </div> ok...so lets see... once KG signed then james posey and eddie house signed, then perkins and powe actually became relevant, then pierce and ray were actually able to save some energy on the offensive end so they could play defense...then cassell and pj brown signed... NONE of this happens if KG doesnt sign here...so, yes, it is ture that KG SINGLE HANDIDLY TURNED THE CELTICS AROUND. thank you, thats all.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (#1AntoineWalkerFan @ Apr 23 2008, 08:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Answer_AI03 @ Apr 23 2008, 09:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>are you kidding me...over a guy who single handidly turned a franchise around</div> absolutely untrue. i think everyone in here needs to stop suckin KGs D. Hes an amazing player, but HE DID NOT SINGLE HANDEDLY TURN THE CELTICS FRANCHISE AROUND. you are a COMPLETE moron if you think that. It was TEAM defense that got them to where they are. they have probably the best roster of defenders in the entire league. Also, if team success should have something to do with the award, then Camby should still be in it. The nuggets were a 50 win team, only 7 games behind the number 1 seed in the SUPER competitive west. Where as KG had to deal with Zach Randolph, Samuel Dalembert, and Josh BOONE on a nightly basis. </div> ok...so lets see... once KG signed then james posey and eddie house signed, then perkins and powe actually became relevant, then pierce and ray were actually able to save some energy on the offensive end so they could play defense...then cassell and pj brown signed... NONE of this happens if KG doesnt sign here...so, yes, it is ture that KG SINGLE HANDIDLY TURNED THE CELTICS AROUND. thank you, thats all. </div> Or, KG didn't sign with Boston. He was acquired in a trade made by Danny Ainge. So, if you thing about it that way, you could make the argument that AINGE SINGLE-HANDEDLY TURNED THE CELTICS AROUND. Therefore, Danny Ainge deserves DPOY. I rest my case.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Apr 23 2008, 10:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (#1AntoineWalkerFan @ Apr 23 2008, 08:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Answer_AI03 @ Apr 23 2008, 09:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>are you kidding me...over a guy who single handidly turned a franchise around</div> absolutely untrue. i think everyone in here needs to stop suckin KGs D. Hes an amazing player, but HE DID NOT SINGLE HANDEDLY TURN THE CELTICS FRANCHISE AROUND. you are a COMPLETE moron if you think that. It was TEAM defense that got them to where they are. they have probably the best roster of defenders in the entire league. Also, if team success should have something to do with the award, then Camby should still be in it. The nuggets were a 50 win team, only 7 games behind the number 1 seed in the SUPER competitive west. Where as KG had to deal with Zach Randolph, Samuel Dalembert, and Josh BOONE on a nightly basis. </div> ok...so lets see... once KG signed then james posey and eddie house signed, then perkins and powe actually became relevant, then pierce and ray were actually able to save some energy on the offensive end so they could play defense...then cassell and pj brown signed... NONE of this happens if KG doesnt sign here...so, yes, it is ture that KG SINGLE HANDIDLY TURNED THE CELTICS AROUND. thank you, thats all. </div> Or, KG didn't sign with Boston. He was acquired in a trade made by Danny Ainge. So, if you thing about it that way, you could make the argument that AINGE SINGLE-HANDEDLY TURNED THE CELTICS AROUND. Therefore, Danny Ainge deserves DPOY. I rest my case. </div> But, see, Danny could not be alive if was not for the sacrifices of our lord of the virgin birth, Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ for DPoY, MVP, Executive of the Year, MIP, and finals MVP
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (#1_Yinka_Dare_Fan @ Apr 23 2008, 10:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Apr 23 2008, 10:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (#1AntoineWalkerFan @ Apr 23 2008, 08:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Answer_AI03 @ Apr 23 2008, 09:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>are you kidding me...over a guy who single handidly turned a franchise around</div> absolutely untrue. i think everyone in here needs to stop suckin KGs D. Hes an amazing player, but HE DID NOT SINGLE HANDEDLY TURN THE CELTICS FRANCHISE AROUND. you are a COMPLETE moron if you think that. It was TEAM defense that got them to where they are. they have probably the best roster of defenders in the entire league. Also, if team success should have something to do with the award, then Camby should still be in it. The nuggets were a 50 win team, only 7 games behind the number 1 seed in the SUPER competitive west. Where as KG had to deal with Zach Randolph, Samuel Dalembert, and Josh BOONE on a nightly basis. </div> ok...so lets see... once KG signed then james posey and eddie house signed, then perkins and powe actually became relevant, then pierce and ray were actually able to save some energy on the offensive end so they could play defense...then cassell and pj brown signed... NONE of this happens if KG doesnt sign here...so, yes, it is ture that KG SINGLE HANDIDLY TURNED THE CELTICS AROUND. thank you, thats all. </div> Or, KG didn't sign with Boston. He was acquired in a trade made by Danny Ainge. So, if you thing about it that way, you could make the argument that AINGE SINGLE-HANDEDLY TURNED THE CELTICS AROUND. Therefore, Danny Ainge deserves DPOY. I rest my case. </div> But, see, Danny could not be alive if was not for the sacrifices of our lord Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ for DPoY, MVP, Executive of the Year, MIP, and finals MVP </div> But no one would be around if it weren't for God. He created everything, including people, starting with Adam & Eve. That is, of course, unless you believe the evolutionary theory that Gil Gerard used a time machine, went back, and jacked off into the primordial ooze.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (#1_Yinka_Dare_Fan @ Apr 23 2008, 09:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Apr 23 2008, 10:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (#1AntoineWalkerFan @ Apr 23 2008, 08:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Answer_AI03 @ Apr 23 2008, 09:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>are you kidding me...over a guy who single handidly turned a franchise around</div> absolutely untrue. i think everyone in here needs to stop suckin KGs D. Hes an amazing player, but HE DID NOT SINGLE HANDEDLY TURN THE CELTICS FRANCHISE AROUND. you are a COMPLETE moron if you think that. It was TEAM defense that got them to where they are. they have probably the best roster of defenders in the entire league. Also, if team success should have something to do with the award, then Camby should still be in it. The nuggets were a 50 win team, only 7 games behind the number 1 seed in the SUPER competitive west. Where as KG had to deal with Zach Randolph, Samuel Dalembert, and Josh BOONE on a nightly basis. </div> ok...so lets see... once KG signed then james posey and eddie house signed, then perkins and powe actually became relevant, then pierce and ray were actually able to save some energy on the offensive end so they could play defense...then cassell and pj brown signed... NONE of this happens if KG doesnt sign here...so, yes, it is ture that KG SINGLE HANDIDLY TURNED THE CELTICS AROUND. thank you, thats all. </div> Or, KG didn't sign with Boston. He was acquired in a trade made by Danny Ainge. So, if you thing about it that way, you could make the argument that AINGE SINGLE-HANDEDLY TURNED THE CELTICS AROUND. Therefore, Danny Ainge deserves DPOY. I rest my case. </div> But, see, Danny could not be alive if was not for the sacrifices of our lord of the virgin birth, Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ for DPoY, MVP, Executive of the Year, MIP, and finals MVP </div> I don't understand why you even had to clarify that. :[
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Apr 23 2008, 10:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>But no one would be around if it weren't for God. He created everything, including people, starting with Adam & Eve. That is, of course, unless you believe the evolutionary theory that Gil Gerard used a time machine, went back, and jacked off into the primordial ooze.</div> Flying Spaghetti Monster hates you.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Answer_AI03 @ Apr 23 2008, 01:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>So i guess all the other good/great defensive players on the celtics aren't nearly as responsible for the turnaround in boston as KG is....sorry but thats just wrong. team defense is what changed the team. Garnett was a good defender but i think there were better this year. Not just Camby.</div> You're not talking about all the same good/great defensive players that lead the Celtics to a 24-58 record last year, are you?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (#1_Yinka_Dare_Fan @ Apr 23 2008, 11:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Apr 23 2008, 10:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>But no one would be around if it weren't for God. He created everything, including people, starting with Adam & Eve. That is, of course, unless you believe the evolutionary theory that Gil Gerard used a time machine, went back, and jacked off into the primordial ooze.</div> Flying Spaghetti Monster hates you. </div> I like spaghetti.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Causeway @ Apr 23 2008, 08:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>"Where Shimmy Happens..." I just noticed that AW. I have to admit, that's very funny.</div> thanks CW...i try KG for MVP...
