Gary "Hard Cap" Payton

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by SharpesTriumph, Jul 6, 2022.

  1. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

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    I have to say I was not thrilled. I thought he was a fine replacement to Hark / Aminu - but I did not think he would be better than both so have not considered him such a great addition, especially since he basically replaced Ariza. I would have been happier if he was added to Ariza. I guess I paid a little more attention to his time in Philli and was never as excited about him. He is a fine player, but the Blazers sure did downgrade when they moved from Aminu / Harkless in the defensive wings position.

    GP2 on the other hand, I am excited about. He solves a real problem the Blazers have not been able to handle for a very, very long time.
     
  2. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

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    Roco could have just as easily walked for nothing like Lamarcus did....he wasn't part of Chauncey's plan and didn't want to be. Last game for the Blazers Roco shot 0-8 from the field..and he hurt Nurk's ability to stay out of foul trouble by gambling on defense and breaking the string constantly. I am glad he's gone...Winslow would eat his lunch on defense and rebounding.
     
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  3. Wade Garrett

    Wade Garrett Exactly right.

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    Which leads right into 'ChaunceyBall"...
    Get it and GOOOOOO is what I was seeing.
    Hard nosed, in your face, defense brought by Winslow and Hart, (and now GPII) and Keon/Anfernee pushing it fast.
    I have often complained about the lack of size on this team, and although they didn't get any taller, they got bigger, as in muscular, strong,
    and with a faster tempo (yes, you too Dame!) height may not be as crucial as I once thought.
    Look, I am not thinking a playoff run, or anything like that, but I can't remember the last time being so excited about a Blazer team as I am this one.
     
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  4. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    I agree that GP solves a problem, but there is a new problem. Our two highest paid players, who also happen to be the main reason for that problem which Gary addresses, play the same position as GP and now we have to figure out who should be on the floor.
     
  5. Strenuus

    Strenuus Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    That's your fault then.
     
  6. blazedanugz

    blazedanugz Well-Known Member

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    What is this thread
     
  7. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

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    But they don't. GP2 is not a guard on offense. He is a PF on offense. The Blazers always tried to hide Dame / CJ on defense - they will continue to do so, only now they have a much better tool to throw against quick guards.
     
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  8. AmirIcon

    AmirIcon Well-Known Member

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    He's rated one of the most effective defensive players in the league. Seems reasonable to hard cap yourself to get him if you knew you had no shot at Durant, Ayton, etc.

    Not understanding the issue.
     
  9. Wade Garrett

    Wade Garrett Exactly right.

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    I've said it 100 times before..(no, really, I have!!), and I'll say it again...
    roco was/is a fucking joke. He was a detriment to this team, not an asset.
    the fact that Joe got more than a ham sandwich from a lotto deli for him was a coux.
     
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  10. Blazer Freak

    Blazer Freak Superstar in the Making

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    Thinking about everything that's been said since Cronin got the job, he's mentioned before this is not a 1 year turn around. I think all the moves we've made so far are aiming toward next summer. We've added two defensive pieces that fit what Chauncey wants to do for THIS season. GP2 is at a decent price, Nurk's contract is at a good salary number to include in trades, Ant as well. I think the moves made so far were to 1) appease Dame for this season and 2) set us up financially to be able to consolidate pieces NEXT offseason in a trade for a big star.

    This season is about getting a few guys Dame wanted, competing, and truly seeing how the team looks with a new coach, new system and Dame fully healthy. If we make playoffs, we give the pick to CHI and are clear to trade, Nurk, Ant, Sharpe, etc with no restrictions AND with a clear runway of 3 years to be in the LT with no repeater tax. It also allows us a year to see what Sharpe can potentially be.

    Was this an A+ offseason and completely turn the roster around? Absolutely not. I'd give it a solid B, with a lot of hope for the future and potential to either completely reset or make the big move. Look at TOR, they took Barnes #4 last year and now he is THE piece in a potential KD trade. Obviously I don't expect Sharpe to have that kind of immediate impact, but I think it goes to show a lot can change in one year.
     
  11. SharpesTriumph

    SharpesTriumph Well-Known Member

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    The other long shot is if Sharpe shows all star potential his rookie year. That could change the window for Dame contending.

    I don't think Nas/Ant/Watford have the potential to pop in a way that can get us to a contending level one day. Even if they all have great seasons at once. However Sharpe has that potential.

    But still either of those things happening is a real long shot; so I'd say odds are you are right. If the Blazers want to keep the most long term talent on the roster they should explore a Dame trade this season or next summer.
     
  12. SharpesTriumph

    SharpesTriumph Well-Known Member

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    Is this a joke?
     
  13. SharpesTriumph

    SharpesTriumph Well-Known Member

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    I was a much better shooter than GPII.
     
  14. SharpesTriumph

    SharpesTriumph Well-Known Member

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    So we hide Lillard on the opponents PF?
     
  15. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

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    not in the paint or off the dribble...he was a 3 pt shooter pretty much..couldn't create his own shot or dunk the ball...Payton gets a ton of put back points...Payton also rebounds at a level Wes never sniffed.....the point of attack defense is the point though. We have 3 pt shooters...we now have 3 pt defenders
     
  16. SharpesTriumph

    SharpesTriumph Well-Known Member

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    Blazers will be over the cap next summer, have to give Hart a raise or lose him, and a similar position with Little as Ant was this summer.

    What tools will the Blazers have to add talent as you suggest they will be able to do? All I see is the tax MLE.

    The time to do major improvements to the roster and bring in talent was at the trade deadline and this summer. Cronin failed in that regard; and didn't leave himself any assets or tools to get this completed in the future. Writing was on the wall at the deadline. Now were having people say "wait it'll happen NEXT summer'.

    When next summer comes we'll hear how Cronin again couldn't get it all done, and we just have to wait until the NEXT summer to see his grand plan come to fruition.

    Tomorrow will always be there.
     
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  17. MickZagger

    MickZagger Well-Known Member

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    As Lillard gets another year older and his trade value sinks..
     
  18. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

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    Would you prefer GP2 on Curry and Lillard on Draymond or the other way around?

    You always have to hide your bad defenders somewhere. The only difference is that now we have someone that can take on the quick, explosive guards and we did not before.
     
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  19. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

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    You do not think Dame and Ant can facilitate the offense? The 2 main facilitators in GSW are Curry and Draymond. That's why you can play GP2 next to them - he is a guard on defense, does not need to be on offense. Same as Portland.

    If GP2 plays next to only one of Ant or Dame, someone like Winslow (which was used in Miami as their point forward) is useful.
     
  20. Pinwheel1

    Pinwheel1 Well-Known Member

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    What is his trade value now? Another high-priced vet that does not match the other young player's timeline nor win us a championship? or a team that elected to start over and accumulated a bunch of young talent/picks that doesn't really want/need Dame. I would trade Dame for a young superstar but why would a team give up a young superstar? So are we talking draft picks? Are they unprotected?
     
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