Uhh.. lots of people have described having faith as you do and then later losing that faith. It's pretty common. Sent from my banana using Tapatalk 4
So mags, you are saying that with a gun to your head, or worse, a gun to the head of a family member, you would choose faith over their life?
It's because that sentiment is cause for many many deaths over the years. Want to know what beliefs you hold in common with terrorists? I'm not saying that the thought by itself is evil, but that thought in conjunction with us vs them mentality is at the root of millions of deaths. I know you will now bring up atheists that kill. But I'm not looking at religion vs no religion, I'm looking at extreme fundamentalist views. If you look at the Nazi's, they too hold the faith of their peoples above all else, so it's not just religious, it is the willingness to rank anything above the lives of innocent people. Call it faith in God or faith in the Blue eyed race, it's still ultimate faith that mixes with Us vs Them that results in annihilation of millions.
Nope you are just saying, "you saw a black person that stole, so all black people are thieves". Just because some Muslim faction, or even Christians have killed for what they thought was right; doesn't mean others will do the same. You conveniently group all in faith to a negative because you hold it no value. You call yourself a Jew but act in athiesm. That is another "convenient" tradition; with no strings attached. So before you are quick to judge one that believes so much in their faith that they are willing to die for it; look to what is more valuable to you? You want laughter? Christ, yes because you only care about yourself.
Aside from on this forum, I don't really call myself either a Jew or an Atheist, I just believe what I believe. If in a discussion with someone about it, I'll use those terms to explain, but that's it. What do I consider myself? Both. The humor answer was me trying to find something that I most valued, but I would not put that ahead of the lives of loved ones. Perhaps myself, if I could not find humor anymore, I would rather be dead, but I would never choose humor over the lives of others. If you read what I wrote in my last post, I did not say faith alone was the cause of evil, I said faith along with certain perspectives, us vs them, that can be a foundation for brutality. Fact is throughout history this has been the case. I think unwavering faith is dangerous. I think it can be manipulated by others who claim knowledge of what your faith requires. Faith is the fulcrum by which powerful people exert pressure on the masses.
I would argue "faith in Christ" is in the same category as family members or physical items. It's an empirical belief you value, not a "value" in itself in the sense you are intending to ask about. In other words it's obviously not something you think is in any way dependent on subjective personal moral or aesthetic judgment.
I think I've already proven that I'm not one that follows the herd when it involves faith. I do find it very offensive that you claim my value is sick "in your words". I think that was a very arrogant statement by your part
Your argument is noted... I would respond by saying "you don't believe in Christ, therefor you consider it a moral value by those that do". Even though my faith is a relationship like one I would have with my child; the label is still a moral value.
I think these are two very different questions. If faced with to choice to deny God and live or praise Him and die, I choose the latter. If another person's well-being is at stake, then I sacrifice what I want for what they need. Pretty simple, really.
That's why I asked the question that way. I feel that way about certain rights like freedom of speech for example. With a gun to my head, I would continue to speak, but put others at risk and I would quickly allow myself to be censored.
I don't think belief or disbelief in the divinity of Jesus is a moral value. That would be pretty nonsensical. You (presumably) think your relationship with Jesus is objectively real - not just something you hold dear because of subjective personal moral or aesthetic judgment, which is what you are asking about in the OP. It would be a bit more meaningful answer if you said you value faith itself (faith is a virtue).
