<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ Apr 1 2007, 10:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>In a running system, I think Durant COULD play the 4. I definitely agree that he'd be best suited at the 3, I'm not arguing that, but if the Celtics got him, he would play some 4.</div>Unless he put on about 25lbs of muscle, I doubt that he'd play the 4 in any system. With the lineup you gave, I think they'd rather put Pierce at the 4.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Apr 1 2007, 11:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>No one will be doubling Oden. In a few years, Pierce will be on the decline, whereas Durant will be just about entering his prime. When this happens, Pierce will either be traded or leave on his own merrit, and it will be Durant/Jefferson's team. If Celtics get Durant, he will be their major prospect and player to build around for years to come. He averaged 29/11 on well over 50% shooting in college as a freshman...he has the oppertunity to be a 30PPG+ scorer in the NBA. Durant will not cause major moves by Boston. Assuming Pierce stays around, the team will still revolve around Pierce and he will be the main option.</div> Chances are Oden will be staying in OSU for one more year. Oden led his team to a 30-3 record with one hand, he is a presence in college. He creates tons of open shots for OSU's perimeter guys like Conley JR. His basketball IQ is what really slows him down IMO. Picking up dumb fouls is something that Oden will need to learn to stop doing and this will only be learned in time. You're saying that in a few years Pierce will be in his decline and Durant will be entering his prime. However in a few years Oden's game will be entering its prime as well. With Rudy Gay continuing to improve and the chance that Billups signs with Memphis he can create a great perimeter game for these guys. If Pierce stays as the main option Durant isn't bringing anything that the Celtics don't already have while playing Pau at the 4 will create alot of merits for the Grizzlies. I'm not saying that Durant bringing more rebounding and scoring is a bad thing but that bringing Oden into Memphis has instant merits. Also if Pierce does stay and they do draft Durant, they have Sczerbiack and Green as swingmen on the bench like Durant. That is a crowded 2/3 spot. It would be in the best interest of Danny Ainge and the celtics to move one of those guys.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KCX @ Mar 30 2007, 01:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah a lot of todays game is big men oriented. You see players like Dwight Howard and Chris Bosh leading their team because the game has revolved from guards to bigger players. I'm not sure if I buy into Kevin Durant becoming a huge scoring threat, especially his rookie year. His body just doesn't seem NBA-ready and he seems alittle soft in my opinion. I hope I get proven wrong because I like Durant alot- but I think that he can average about 20 points at most while I agree while Oden will score just as much but also get 10 rpg and adding defensive presence.</div>Eh, I disagree. The game today is still perimeter-oriented, and it just revolves around the guards. There are not a ton of great big men in the league today, as there were in past decades. As for the guards, guys like Kobe Bryant, Steve Nash, and Dwyane Wade have just dominated the NBA today.
[quote name='GArenas' post='323940' date='Apr 1 2007, 10:28 PM']Chances are Oden will be staying in OSU for one more year. Oden led his team to a 30-3 record with one hand, he is a presence in college. He creates tons of open shots for OSU's perimeter guys like Conley JR. His basketball IQ is what really slows him down IMO. Picking up dumb fouls is something that Oden will need to learn to stop doing and this will only be learned in time.[/quote]Oden didn't lead them offensively. As you saw in the tournament, his team offensively did just fine without him. His defensive presence is what made them the team that will be playing Florida for the national championship. What? You said that bringing in a player similar to Pierce will not make a big impact for the celtics, and my response was, "If nothing else, he will take a lot of pressure off Pierce, further open things up for Al Jefferson, and be part of the great duo that will be him and Jefferson after Pierce leaves." Of course Oden will be a franchise players as well, I know that.And their perimeter game will be fine without Oden. Yes, Oden's defensive presence makes them stronger in an area that is currently weak, and yes the Celtics already have a great scorer in Pierce. But one of the celtics weaknesses right now is they don't have that 2nd option next to Pierce. Celtics have less problems than Memphis does, and if the celtics get Durant, I think they will instantly be a playoff team whereas Memphis won't. Not really. Either way I'm sure there will be moves made from both memphis and Boston to help fit in their rooks.
[quote name='Nitro1118' post='323987' date='Apr 2 2007, 12:27 AM']Oden didn't lead them offensively. As you saw in the tournament, his team offensively did just fine without him. His defensive presence is what made them the team that will be playing Florida for the national championship.[/quote] There is no doubt that Oden's defensive game is much more developed than his offensive game and there is no doubt that his offensive game has alot of evolving to do. However, OSU played the perimeter great and Oden did play a part in that. Hibbert matched up against Oden so we didn't see Oden help with the perimeter game in the final four. OSU has a great perimeter game and although Oden isn't the main reason for it he has an impact on it. I was responding to when you said this: ____ Al Jefferson's game has really evolved this year and has been doign a great job as a #2 option so far and should stay as the #2 option at the beggining of Durant's rookie year. Eventually Durant will over-take Al but the two players games are completely different. Now if you're talking about a #2 perimeter option. Had Sczerbiack not gotten injured chances are he would have been that option although I do expect Durant to be it next year. This year Memphis under-achieved. Although they would not have appeared in the playoffs they should have had at least 30 wins but due to Pau returning from injury in late December, Memphis already had given up. With Oden it brings a whole new dimension to Memphis's game on the defensive end. Memphis could make a run for the playoffs next year just like Boston.
[quote name='GArenas' post='323993' date='Apr 1 2007, 11:40 PM']There is no doubt that Oden's defensive game is much more developed than his offensive game and there is no doubt that his offensive game has alot of evolving to do. However, OSU played the perimeter great and Oden did play a part in that. Hibbert matched up against Oden so we didn't see Oden help with the perimeter game in the final four. OSU has a great perimeter game and although Oden isn't the main reason for it he has an impact on it.[/quote]He makes an impact, but he doesn't make them great like you said he would with Billups and Rudy Gay. I know. My original point was that aside from all the things he will immediately bring to the table, he will be someone to build around after Pierce leaves. of course Oden will be that player eventually as well, but it was just one of the reasons why drafting Durant is going to make a big impact despite having similar qualities to Pierce. Last year, after Davis was traded, Sczerbiak wasn't effective isn that role. Jefferson, while much improved and will be a BEAST, is still inconsistent and not dependable every night for 20PPG or so. Even as a rookie I think Durant will be that kind of player. Memphis has many more problems than just getting a defensive stopper down low. I don't think the Grizzlies will make the playoffs next year unless they do a lot of shuffling and other personel changes. The Celtics really only need a dependable 2nd option, and with that kind of guy (who can also rebound and defend) they will make the playoffs and possibly get a middle of the road seed (5/6/7).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Apr 2 2007, 12:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Not really. Either way I'm sure there will be moves made from both memphis and Boston to help fit in their rooks.</div> Exactly, if we got Durant, we would deal 1-2 of our swingmen. I mean there is no way Paul Pierce, Kevin Durant, Wally Szczerbiak, Tony Allen, Gerald Green, Ryan Gomes, and Delonte West could all play on one team. That's a HUMONGOUS logjam.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ Apr 2 2007, 12:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Exactly, if we got Durant, we would deal 1-2 of our swingmen. I mean there is no way Paul Pierce, Kevin Durant, Wally Szczerbiak, Tony Allen, Gerald Green, Ryan Gomes, and Delonte West could all play on one team. That's a HUMONGOUS logjam.</div>A very young and talented logjam at that I don't think more than 1 or 2 trades would be necassary, though. And with that young talent to trade, you guys could fill up your big situation to help out Jefferson.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Apr 2 2007, 12:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I know. My original point was that aside from all the things he will immediately bring to the table, he will be someone to build around after Pierce leaves. of course Oden will be that player eventually as well, but it was just one of the reasons why drafting Durant is going to make a big impact despite having similar qualities to Pierce.</div> Durant will make more of an impact when he first joins Boston but not by much. How will Durant compare to the other NBA 3's. He has the height but he will be pounded by the stronger swingmen in the NBA. It will force Durant to live on the perimiter which is not neccesaraly a bad thing but it will slow him down in his first years of NBA action. Oden's body is a NBA body and although his offensive game isn't there he will create alot of problems for offenses that like to create isolation drives and pound it inside. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Last year, after Davis was traded, Sczerbiak wasn't effective isn that role. Jefferson, while much improved and will be a BEAST, is still inconsistent and not dependable every night for 20PPG or so. Even as a rookie I think Durant will be that kind of player.</div> Sczerbiack averaged 19 PPG on 48% shooting on Boston last year. He was a good fit before, he fit that role great last year. However, Boston did not have enough scoring from their role players to be succesful as many of them were young (like they still are today). As for Jefferson, you can not expect Durant to come in the league and instantly start consistently scoring 20+ a night as a rookie. Rookie's have in-experience and with in-experience comes inconsistency. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Memphis has many more problems than just getting a defensive stopper down low. I don't think the Grizzlies will make the playoffs next year unless they do a lot of shuffling and other personel changes. The Celtics really only need a dependable 2nd option, and with that kind of guy (who can also rebound and defend) they will make the playoffs and possibly get a middle of the road seed (5/6/7).</div> Of course Memphis has more problems than someone to alter/block shots, they need to continue to make changes to their roster this off-season. However if a true PG like Billups or Mo Williams is signed in the off-season along with Oden being drafted it would make the Grizzlies a much better team. The Boston Celtics will not have a consistent 20 point scorer in Durant's first year. As I said above there have been very very few rookie's who have been consistent in their first year.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GArenas @ Apr 2 2007, 12:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Durant will make more of an impact when he first joins Boston but not by much. How will Durant compare to the other NBA 3's. He has the height but he will be pounded by the stronger swingmen in the NBA. It will force Durant to live on the perimiter which is not neccesaraly a bad thing but it will slow him down in his first years of NBA action. Oden's body is a NBA body and although his offensive game isn't there he will create alot of problems for offenses that like to create isolation drives and pound it inside.</div>That was my point to begin with, right away Durant will make a bigger impact. Down the road, it will depend on how he and Oden develop as players. Durant will not be pounded by other SF's in the league (outside of Ron Artest). He has a very similar body to T-Mac early in his Orlando career, and similar skillset...and look at what T-Mac did. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>As for Jefferson, you can not expect Durant to come in the league and instantly start consistently scoring 20+ a night as a rookie. Rookie's have in-experience and with in-experience comes inconsistency.The Boston Celtics will not have a consistent 20 point scorer in Durant's first year. As I said above there have been very very few rookie's who have been consistent in their first year.</div>Just shows how highly I think of Durant's scoring ability. Never, not even Carmelo (who put 20PPG in his rookie season after only 1 year at Syracuse) has a freshman dominated college like Durant did this year. I have never seen a freshman as NBA-ready (outside of weight) as Durant is. He is extremely versatile as a scorer, very athletic, and has the right frame and skillset to cause many mismatch problems in the league. If he gets enough touches, I think he can be a consistent 20PPG guy. He will be at least a 16PPG 2nd option, and along with Jefferson 16-18PPG, they will definately be playoff bound.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Of course Memphis has more problems than someone to alter/block shots, they need to continue to make changes to their roster this off-season. However if a true PG like Billups or Mo Williams is signed in the off-season along with Oden being drafted it would make the Grizzlies a much better team. The Boston Celtics will not have a consistent 20 point scorer in Durant's first year. As I said above there have been very very few rookie's who have been consistent in their first year.</div>But for the time being, you can't just assume Billups will sign with them. But if you insert Durant into Celtics lineuo right now and Oden into Memphis', Durant would have the bigger impact right away IMO.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Apr 2 2007, 01:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>A very young and talented logjam at that I don't think more than 1 or 2 trades would be necassary, though. And with that young talent to trade, you guys could fill up your big situation to help out Jefferson.</div> Exactly. My offseason wet dream is to get a top 2 pick then deal Ratliff's big expiring contract, a couple young players, and a future pick for a good veteran player.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Apr 2 2007, 12:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That was my point to begin with, right away Durant will make a bigger impact. Down the road, it will depend on how he and Oden develop as players. Durant will not be pounded by other SF's in the league (outside of Ron Artest). He has a very similar body to T-Mac early in his Orlando career, and similar skillset...and look at what T-Mac did.</div>I have seen you say this a couple of times, and I must say that while his scoring is a bit like T-Mac's, his all around game is not like Mcgrady's was in Orlando. Mcgrady was much more of a playmaker than Durant has shown to be in his rookie season, as Mcgrady was able to score alot and also manage to set up for teamates. Might not have always been on his first pass, but his passes many times was to a spot for the ball to be swung for a good shot because of his offense. Also Mcgrady moved without the ball more than Durant has shown to move without the ball, as well as moved better without the ball.So with that playmaking ability, and off-ball movement I don't see him playing like Mcgrady did in Orlando as much as him playing like Rashard Lewis in Seattle.Also Mcgrady played the two in Orlando, so that is a good reason why he did well against the other teams small forwards. Often times he faced their 2-guards.
I will take Oden, just because dominant Centers are so rare nowadays. Oden has good touch around the basket, and his post moves are good for a freshman. If he can perfect his post game, he will be a 24+ ppg guy for sure, to go along with simply astounding defense. Durant will be a really good scorer, but I will take the great scorer, dominant center, and amazing defensive player any day of the week over a scorer.Guys like Oden will win you championships.
Onto the question at hand though, I believe the Celtics would be WAY better off going for Oden as opposed to Durant for a couple of reasons. First is that there is a logjam out on the wing, and even if you do trade two of those guys after drafting Durant, you still have about 4-5 wing players on the Celtics roster. Even without drafting Durant they need to trade some of those guys, to free up room for people like Green. With Green starting to show his scoring touch this season, and starting to gather more attention I really don't see the need for Durant. Meanwhile there is no log jam in the low post. You have Perkins and Jefferson, past those two it's Ratliff who is over the hill and out of his prime, and Olowakandi who is a very subpar NBA basketball player. Oden would be able to come in right away and dominate without taking time away from other young players like Green, or forcing you to trade him.Second you are going to be able to form a defense around Oden very well. With Oden's shot blocking, and shot altering presence it is going to be hard on the other teams. You already have a good young defensive point guard in Rondo, as well as players on the wings that can play good defense. With a starting lineup of Rondo, Green, Pierce, Jefferson and Oden you will have defense, as well as scoring on the court. I see this as a much better lineup from a defense and all-around team than what it would be with Durant out there.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Apr 2 2007, 01:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Durant will not be pounded by other SF's in the league (outside of Ron Artest). He has a very similar body to T-Mac early in his Orlando career, and similar skillset...and look at what T-Mac did. Just shows how highly I think of Durant's scoring ability. Never, not even Carmelo (who put 20PPG in his rookie season after only 1 year at Syracuse) has a freshman dominated college like Durant did this year.</div> In no way will Durant be getting as many touches with Pierce on the same floor. The Nuggets squad was built around their draft pick with guys like Andre Miller. Durant will have to share touches with the croweded 2/3 swingman spot on the Celtics. He has proven his scoring ability but you compare him to what T-mac did on the floor with the Magic. That Magic squad was not succesful however. T-mac personally accomplished certain feats but his court vision was not where it is today. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>But for the time being, you can't just assume Billups will sign with them. But if you insert Durant into Celtics lineuo right now and Oden into Memphis', Durant would have the bigger impact right away IMO.</div> Alot of this debate is hypothetical. There is no assurance that Oden and Durant will sign with Memphis and Boston. You may not be able to assume that Billups will sign with them but Memphis will neard definetely add another perimeter threat and a true PG with all the cash that Eddie Jones was bought out from.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GArenas @ Apr 2 2007, 12:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Durant will make more of an impact when he first joins Boston but not by much. How will Durant compare to the other NBA 3's. He has the height but he will be pounded by the stronger swingmen in the NBA. It will force Durant to live on the perimiter which is not neccesaraly a bad thing but it will slow him down in his first years of NBA action.</div> He won't get pounded and forced to the perimeter by stronger perimeter players. Tayshaun Prince and Boris Diaw aren't very strong and they do fine. Not to mention a lot of these guys add at least 10 pounds from the end of the NCAA season to NBA training camp. Durant's too quick and smart to be forced to live on the perimeter, whoever is his coach won't let that happen for very long. I could see a player with much lesser skills having this problem, but not Durant.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrewCityBuck @ Apr 2 2007, 03:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He won't get pounded and forced to the perimeter by stronger perimeter players. Tayshaun Prince and Boris Diaw aren't very strong and they do fine. Not to mention a lot of these guys add at least 10 pounds from the end of the NCAA season to NBA training camp. Durant's too quick and smart to be forced to live on the perimeter, whoever is his coach won't let that happen for very long. I could see a player with much lesser skills having this problem, but not Durant.</div> His college game is amazing, Durant puts numbers on the board like it is nothing. However Tayshaun Prince and Boris Diaw aren't relied on to score tons. Tayshuan actually does rely on the perimeter. Although there have been other great scorers such as T-mac that were much lighter weight in their rookie year. You must remember that T-mac wasn't the least bit "dazzling" his rookie year in Toronto. I have no doubt that Durant's career will be a potential hall of fame career but I have my doubts about his rookie season if he does in fact go to Boston.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GArenas @ Apr 2 2007, 03:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>His college game is amazing, Durant puts numbers on the board like it is nothing. However Tayshaun Prince and Boris Diaw aren't relied on to score tons. Tayshuan actually does rely on the perimeter. Although there have been other great scorers such as T-mac that were much lighter weight in their rookie year. You must remember that T-mac wasn't the least bit "dazzling" his rookie year in Toronto. I have no doubt that Durant's career will be a potential hall of fame career but I have my doubts about his rookie season if he does in fact go to Boston.</div> Please don't tell me your trying to say that Kevin Durant's not going to 'dazzle' his rookie year because in 1997 Tracy McGrady was a similar/skinny player. Please.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrewCityBuck @ Apr 2 2007, 05:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Please don't tell me your trying to say that Kevin Durant's not going to 'dazzle' his rookie year because in 1997 Tracy McGrady was a similar/skinny player. Please.</div> I never said that. There are alot of people who have compared Durant to T-mac in his rookie year, I'm just pointing out that he was not great in his rookie year...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (valo35 @ Apr 2 2007, 09:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I have seen you say this a couple of times, and I must say that while his scoring is a bit like T-Mac's, his all around game is not like Mcgrady's was in Orlando. Mcgrady was much more of a playmaker than Durant has shown to be in his rookie season, as Mcgrady was able to score alot and also manage to set up for teamates. Might not have always been on his first pass, but his passes many times was to a spot for the ball to be swung for a good shot because of his offense. Also Mcgrady moved without the ball more than Durant has shown to move without the ball, as well as moved better without the ball.So with that playmaking ability, and off-ball movement I don't see him playing like Mcgrady did in Orlando as much as him playing like Rashard Lewis in Seattle.Also Mcgrady played the two in Orlando, so that is a good reason why he did well against the other teams small forwards. Often times he faced their 2-guards.</div>I said he has a similar skillset to T-Mac, not that he necassarily plays like him. T-Mac is much more a point forward than Durant, yes. BUT, Durant has very similar body type, handles, jumpshot, and athletic ability to T-Mac early in his Orlando career. That is where I get the similar skillset thing from. Most times T-Mac would be played by the other teams SF/best perimeter defender. Due to Durant's height, he will have similar mismatches that T-mac had with smaller players, and won't have to face their best perimeter defender with Pierce on the floor.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>In no way will Durant be getting as many touches with Pierce on the same floor. The Nuggets squad was built around their draft pick with guys like Andre Miller. Durant will have to share touches with the croweded 2/3 swingman spot on the Celtics. He has proven his scoring ability but you compare him to what T-mac did on the floor with the Magic. That Magic squad was not succesful however. T-mac personally accomplished certain feats but his court vision was not where it is today.</div>This all doesn't make sense with the quote you used, so I'll try and respond. Last year Ricky Davis and Wally both scored around 20PPG with Pierce, I am sure Durant can do the same if he gets enough touches. I brought up T-Mac because you said Durant would be pounded by other team's SF, yet when T-Mac was skinny he did just fine and was not pushed around or anything.PS- I NEVER brought up T-Mac as a rookie. I brought up him early in his ORLANDO career.
