GT: Lakers @ Chicago Bulls

Discussion in 'Los Angeles Lakers' started by Lost One, Mar 21, 2009.

  1. huevonkiller

    huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2006
    Messages:
    25,798
    Likes Received:
    90
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Occupation:
    Student.
    Location:
    Miami, Florida

    Source: AP
     
  2. Денг Гордон

    Денг Гордон Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Messages:
    6,039
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Columbia, MO
    I don't really see how Bryant led the Lakers last night. I though Salmons outplayed him by quite a bit last night, but Gasol/Odom did well.

    I thought the difference in the game was Ben Gordon vs. the Lakers three point shooting. On an "average" (in the literal sense) night, the Lakers would have missed a bit more threes and Gordon would make a few more, given how wide open he was for so many of those misses, but obviously that didn't happen and the Lakers won. Gordon didn't produce like he usually does, and the Lakers role players played great.

    But when you win a game with Kobe shooting only ~47 TS% and being down 16 at one point, you have to be happy.

    I'm actually surprised that Pau Gasol played so badly in the first half. I thought he was going to go for around 30 last night, and just have an all around big game. He still ended up having a good game on whole, but usually the big guys kill us.
     
  3. huevonkiller

    huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2006
    Messages:
    25,798
    Likes Received:
    90
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Occupation:
    Student.
    Location:
    Miami, Florida
    I think you're focusing too much on the title of the article, but did Salmons do anything defensively? There are two sides of the ball, whether or not Kobe had an off night I thought he did just fine overall and I liked his intensity on D. On an "average" night, the Lakers beat your Bulls, we have the best road record in the league. :)
     
  4. Lost One

    Lost One ...

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2009
    Messages:
    4,278
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Lakers didn't even play a lick of defense in the first half.

    I remember after the half, they asked John Ireland what the coaches told the guys in the locker room. He responded by saying something like "I would tell you but I would break the FCC regulations" or something like that. They got chewed the fuck out, glad to see them step up in the second half though.
     
  5. Денг Гордон

    Денг Гордон Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Messages:
    6,039
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Columbia, MO
    Perimeter defense isn't all that important. As long as you contest shot, and steal the ball when you're in the passing lane and give your man a little resistance while driving to the hoop you're usually pretty good on that front. The Bulls problem is that the have a complete lack of interior defense. They have guys like Thomas and Noah who would be good complementary defenders next to a good defensive center. I think like if you add a prime Mutumbo to this team, Bulls are probably somewhere towards the top of the conference and easily a 50 win team. :-)tsktsk:)

    Going forward, I think that's the one thing that needs to be addressed. Derrick Rose (if he develops as he should), Ben Gordon, and John Salmons is a pretty damn good perimeter trio. As long as Rose develops as expected, that should probably be the best perimeter trio in the league. But the front court needs to be taken care of, both offensively and defensively. I guess you can get a guy lke Amare and try to just outscore everyone, which could work, because the Bulls already have lots of offensive talent, and could make a scary offensive team adding a big man to it. But I would prefer to add both.

    Some guys that could really help the Bulls defensively already in the NBA who could become available in the next few years are Emeka Okafor, Greg Oden, and Tyson Chandler. Looking at the next few drafts, Hasheem Thabeet and Cole Aldrich would be the two guys I have pegged for that type of role.

    The Lakers are actually an interesting test case in the offense vs. defensive argument. There defense is just good, not elite, like some of the past championship winners like the Celtics, Spurs, and Pistons. But they are currently the best offensive team in the league.
     
  6. huevonkiller

    huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2006
    Messages:
    25,798
    Likes Received:
    90
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Occupation:
    Student.
    Location:
    Miami, Florida
    I like the pieces the Bulls have, if they get a legit Big Guy they could become contenders in the East. They've got a young core at least.

    What will happen to Deng?
     
  7. Lost One

    Lost One ...

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2009
    Messages:
    4,278
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ben Wallace :O :lol:

    No but I like the pieces the Bulls have to work with. You guys need to get a REAL COACH going forward though.
     
  8. Денг Гордон

    Денг Гордон Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Messages:
    6,039
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Columbia, MO
    Well Luol Deng currently has sand in his vagina and appears to be out for the season.

    John Paxson said after the trade deadline, he had one more move that he could have done at the trade deadline that would have set them up really good financially going forward, but didn't do it because it would make them worse this year, so he didn't make it. But he sounded confident he could make the move again in the summer. We all thought it was Hinrich at the time, but I think it is probably something like Luol Deng to the Blazers for Raef Lafrentz, which can be revisted this summer with the Blazers cap space.

    I think the Bulls plan this offseason is to re-sign Gordon, trade Deng for capspace, and trade for Bosh/Amare. Hopefully Thomas has more games like last night, as that can really push an Amare/Bosh trade through easier.

    I'm done with Deng. John Salmons is just so much better than Deng ever was. He's averaging 20.1 PPG on an amazing 64.4 TS% since coming to the Bulls. One thing he does is he uses Gordon as a decoy like no one the Buls have had since Gordon has been here. When he does a baseline drive, he will kind of slow down on the drive as he approaches the rim, will look at Gordon, who is usually in the opposite corner, and that makes the defender drop back giving Salmons a wide open layup/reverse or it makes the defender hesitate, which makes them late to the spot and fouling. Salmons is such a smart player, good shooter, and good penetrator.

    But we already saw the Bulls can be a pretty good team. With Gordon as their main guy, they had the best defense in the league, and were one of the best teams in the East. But the interior defense fell apart with Wallace's decline and P.J. Brown's departure. They really just are a great interior defender away from being a 50 win team. They may need to add more front court scoring to be a legitimate championship contender, but then again, maybe not.
     
  9. Денг Гордон

    Денг Гордон Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Messages:
    6,039
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Columbia, MO
    I think it was Scoop Jackson, was on Chicago radio a few weeks ago. He said that he thinks John Paxson's plan is to get Avery Johnson. That the Bulls wouldn't make an offer as big as what the Mavs are paying him, but if they waited a year, they could work one out, and that is why Vinny is the lowest paid coach in the league, and his contract was only 2 years, so that the Bulls would have almost no financial damage by firing him.

    I'd like Avery Johnson. He rounded a team with Dirk Nowitzki into a pretty good defensive team, while keeping them one of the best offensive teams while losing Finley/Nash.

    People blame Avery Johnson too much for those playoff losses. Just look at Dirk Nowitki's declined PPG and massively declined TS%, and that will tell you all you need to know about that series. The Mavs superstar choked in both of them, and played like absolute crap, and that's why the Mavs lost. If Avery had a Lebron, Wade, Kobe, Garnett, Duncan, Howard (basically anymore mentally tougher, and just in general non-soft) superstar, I think he would be talked about differently.

    But just reading his book, you know Avery Johnson has his shit together. He's a disciple of Popovich...and quite frankly it's pretty much been the Popovich and Jackson as the dominant coaches of this decade...so his best disciple, who has proven he can coach at the NBA level (highest win percentage of any coach in history) is a great choice for coach. Especially with a team like the Bulls, where they need a more tightly run ship.

    Look at how well Avery developed Devin Harris for instance. If he get Rose to that level, that would be great for the Bulls.
     
  10. kobe23

    kobe23 JBB JustBBall Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2006
    Messages:
    3,563
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    College Undergrad
    ^ Avery + Trade for Bosh or Amare + Develop a consistent rotation = Eastern Finals contenders
     
  11. Денг Гордон

    Денг Гордон Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Messages:
    6,039
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Columbia, MO
    Yup. Rose next year, if he makes the usual sophomore leap should be a star. Gordon/Salmons, both great scorers. You know they can go for 20 every night.

    Just based on that, and then adding Avery, you can probably get around a 48-50 win team. Add Amare/Bosh to those 3 + Avery would be scary.

    I think the Bulls are blessed in having a guy like Gordon as one of their second/third options going forward (Rose should become numero uno in due time).

    Gordon obviously has his deficiencies (he's only around average defensively, not that great of a ball handler). But he does a few things really well.

    He is:

    1. A great three point shooter. In a few days we will call him the best young three point shooter ever. Gordon is 6 three pointers away from breaking Nick Van Exel's record for most three pointers in the first five years of a player's career. If you look at the top 100, only two players, Mark Price and Hubert Davis have a higher three point percentage than Gordon, and both guys made less than half of what Gordon has. That's pretty scary in it's own right. Three point shooting is big for championship teams (three counts for more than two!). Gordon is undoubtedly going to go down in the top 3 with Ray Allen and Reggie Miller of all time when he retires. Three point volume goes up as a career goes on usually, so Gordon should see an increase in volume as well. I think if the Bulls get Stoudemire/Bosh, and Rose develops properly, Gordon will set a career three point record that will never be broken.

    2. He's a great fast break player. I can't track down the actual stats anywhere, but I do know he is top 5 in the NBA in fastbreak scoring this season, because various announcers have mentioned it. Having two guys who can lead the break in Rose/Gordon is good for a team's transition game.

    3. He's clutch. Since coming into the league, only two players, Lebron James and Kobe Bryant have more game winners. He is currently sitting at 13 career three pointers. If he signs a 6 year deal with the Bulls, he could definitely break Michael Jordan's record for most game winners as a Bull (25)...of course he will never be as accurate as Jordan on them (25/51)...and no one ever will....

    That's a special complementary player. He has his deficincies, but his big three skills are so important to basketball.

    I think Amare is our best bet out of Bosh/Amare because Phoenix is in such a crappy financial spot. But Bosh is leaving in 2010 anyhow...to Miami I would assume if he isn't traded, so Toronto will probably be pressed to trade Bosh. I know Colangelo used to like Luol Deng a lot, but that definitely could have changed. But Bulls are in a good position with their expiring contracts and their super expiring (Jerome James, who insurance picks up 80%).

    Not sure what exactly an Amare trade would look like. I would imagine something like:

    Jerome James (super expiring), Tyrus Thomas (potential/expiring), Joakim Noah (prospect), two 2010 draft picks, and $3 million cash.

    And then Phoenix probably trades both draft picks to Portland for $3 million each...
     

Share This Page