<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I haven't been here for a couple dayz and I come back to this!! Odom is a good player, but by NO MEANS is he better than Tmac in any shape form or fashion. NO COMPARISON! Odom's play is more so due to the triangle offense, Tmac is just pure talent. In other words, Tmac at 27 is better than Odom anyday. You obviously haven't looked at any Rocket games and just looked at the stat books. By the way, ur definition of a ballhog is the most idiotic thing i've heard. Jus because you shoot a poor % doesn't make you a ballhog. Jus like Kobe last year, did you forget about that? Kobe's my favorite player but ur not gonna get away with labelin my boy Tmac a ballhog without knowing the FACTS! Get ur mind right</div> What are you talking about? Kobe had a TS% of 56 last year, which is three percent above the average. A ball-hog is one that hurts his team by making poor shot selections and the like. You need to realize McGrady is playing like garbage, and if he is still better then Odom, it isn't by a great margin. You are the biggest fool because you obviously don't understand what TS% is. In addition, Odom was playing at a high level without Kobe this year, he has been playing quite well. T-Mac hasn't; I'm reporting the News to you, not an opinion.
<div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">What are you talking about? Kobe had a TS% of 56 last year, which is three percent above the average. A ball-hog is one that hurts his team by making poor shot selections and the like. You need to realize McGrady is playing like garbage, and if he is still better then Odom, it isn't by a great margin. You are the biggest fool because you obviously don't understand what TS% is. In addition, Odom was playing at a high level without Kobe this year, he has been playing quite well. T-Mac hasn't; I'm reporting the News to you, not an opinion.</div> We're a far better offensive team with T-Mac on the floor. Our offense is +8.8 points per 100 possessions better with him on the court (+4.2 for Odom). Even when he's struggling with his shot, he's still a great player because of the attention he draws and his ability to see the court and create shots for teammates. Plus, we turn the ball over like crazy when he's not on the court for us. And I don't understand how you can say Odom is playing at a high level whild T-Mac isn't (and, further, T-Mac is playing like "garbage") while also allowing for the possibility that McGrady is playing better than Odom.
<div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">First, let me address the comment in Bold: So you're saying T-Mac wants to have a disgusting shooting percentage? He's playing like crap, fellow. He's getting more assists but his shot selection (or shooting touch) has been way off. I'm a <font color=""Red"">Kobe</font> Fan... so what does that have to do with anything? Seriously, I brought up the 32 ppg thing because igotask8board did so first. T-Mac has had a couple of respectable seasons in Houston, but is still very Moss-ish at this particular moment. The difference between <font color=""red"">Kobe </font>and T-Mac is that <font color=""red"">Kobe </font>has been much <font color=""red"">better </font>currently and last year, it's a <font color=""red"">bad comparison</font>. A Ballhog is someone who hurts his team by shooting a pathetic percentage; that's more characteristic of T-Mac at this moment. You seem pretty sensitive, but the truth is T-Mac and Odom are indeed on similar planes in 06-07.</div>
<div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Seriously... relax. T-Mac's career accomplishments towers over what Odom has done, but in these last three years he has really tailed off, especially this year. I'm sure McGrady is better than Odom at "full Strength" but he's always injured. When he plays more consistently or show he can be healthy again, you Houston people can boast all you want about T-Mac.</div> All you do is boast, and your trying to tell us when we can/can't boast? Remember, this is the Houston Rockets Forum. <div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"><font color=""Red"">The whole point is that McGrady isn't the player he used to be, and Odom is around his level now</font>. To use an analogy: McGrady is sort of the Randy Moss of the NBA.</div> <div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">4.8 to 6.3 assists is WAY up? Lol. Either way, Lamar is a triple double threat. tix_'s post explains my pov in detail (most of my pov at least...).</div> <div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">What do you mean and how am I the one pouting? <font color=""red"">You people have to admit T-Mac and Odom are on the same tier now. </font>Just look at what T-Mac has done this year. He didn't play for 9 months until training camp, because he's injury prone. I<font color=""red""> don't really care if T-Mac is better than Odom either, they're still on a similar level</font>. </div> That doesn't make sense, they're on the same "level," but T-Mac is better? <div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> That 32 ppg T-Mac was for one year by the way, it's been downhill since. When I see McGrady, I think of that STP song, "Creep" (aka Half the man I used to be).</div> <div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">First, let me address the comment in Bold: So you're saying T-Mac wants to have a disgusting shooting percentage? He's playing like crap, fellow. He's getting more assists but his shot selection (or shooting touch) has been way off. I'm a Kobe Fan... so what does that have to do with anything? Seriously, I brought up the 32 ppg thing because igotask8board did so first. T-Mac has had a couple of respectable seasons in Houston, but is still very Moss-ish at this particular moment. <font color=""red"">The difference between Kobe and T-Mac is that Kobe has been much better currently and last year, it's a bad compar</font>ison. A Ballhog is someone who hurts his team by shooting a pathetic percentage; that's more characteristic of T-Mac at this moment. You seem pretty sensitive, but the truth is T-Mac and Odom are indeed on similar planes in 06-07.</div> <div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">What are you talking about? Kobe had a TS% of 56 last year, which is three percent above the average. A ball-hog is one that hurts his team by making poor shot selections and the like. You need to realize McGrady is playing like garbage, and if he is still better then Odom, it isn't by a great margin. You are the biggest fool because you obviously don't understand what TS% is. In addition, Odom was playing at a high level without Kobe this year, he has been playing quite well. T-Mac hasn't; I'm reporting the News to you, not an opinion.</div> It's still pretty early in the season, I'm think by January 10, 2007 he will be fine.
<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I haven't been here for a couple dayz and I come back to this!! Odom is a good player, but by NO MEANS is he better than Tmac in any shape form or fashion. NO COMPARISON! Odom's play is more so due to the triangle offense, Tmac is just pure talent. In other words, Tmac at 27 is better than Odom anyday. You obviously haven't looked at any Rocket games and just looked at the stat books. By the way, ur definition of a ballhog is the most idiotic thing i've heard. Jus because you shoot a poor % doesn't make you a ballhog. Jus like Kobe last year, did you forget about that? Kobe's my favorite player but ur not gonna get away with labelin my boy Tmac a ballhog without knowing the FACTS! Get ur mind right</div> Its not about WHO IS THE BETTER PLAYER. The arguement is about who is more vital to their respective teams. Odom is just as valuable to running the Laker Triangle Offense as T-mac is to scoring for the Houston Rockets. It had nothing to do with who had more TALENT. Personally, I think Tracy is more talented. Read through the posts more carefully. And yes I agree with shape. The comment about T-mac days like Kobe is one of the worst analogies I've ever read on this board.
<div class="quote_poster">igotask8board Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"></div> Uh no you're the idiot... Why is saying Kobe 3 times, and saying he is better currently, a stupid thing? You're a lazy cretin, I'm sure you could have come up with something better then that. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">We're a far better offensive team with T-Mac on the floor. Our offense is +8.8 points per 100 possessions better with him on the court (+4.2 for Odom). Even when he's struggling with his shot, he's still a great player because of the attention he draws and his ability to see the court and create shots for teammates. Plus, we turn the ball over like crazy when he's not on the court for us. And I don't understand how you can say Odom is playing at a high level whild T-Mac isn't (and, further, T-Mac is playing like "garbage") while also allowing for the possibility that McGrady is playing better than Odom.</div> Now when I say they are on the same level, I mean the same "tier" so to speak. One can be in a similar class, but not be equal (for example: LeBron, Wade and Kobe, are on the same upper tier but not completely equal). This is not a hard concept to understand. Lamar is almost as important to the Lakers as T-Mac because McGrady is playing like "garbage" (for T-Mac's standards), unless you consider 19,6,5 and poor shooting a normal year. You people are nuts, I'm just saying T-Mac is struggling in 06-07 and isn't the player he used to be, thus Lamar has caught up to him, momentarily. I'm talking to a cult. Also, you're plus/minus stats I am not that convinced about, because they do not account for Depth. I believe it is a flawed statistic.
<div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Also, you're plus/minus stats I am not that convinced about, because they do not account for Depth. I believe it is a flawed statistic.</div> My plus/minus stats? Anyways, you need to take into account depth if you're evaluating value to their respective teams. Isn't that what we're doing?
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">My plus/minus stats? Anyways, you need to take into account depth if you're evaluating value to their respective teams. Isn't that what we're doing?</div> Yes that's right I said your plus/minus stats. You want me to give the credit to 82games.com? K then, I just did. Walk it off... Anyway, Plus/minus stats mean what exactly ? I believe they are misleading, though T-Mac may very well be the better player.
I have been listening to both sides of the argument... I think Durvasa is right. It has nothing to do with who is the better player... but more whose absence can be best absorbed by the team. And Lamar Odom is an easier loss for the Lakers to absorb than T-Mac. But its closer than people think.
<div class="quote_poster">Fiyah Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I have been listening to both sides of the argument... I think Durvasa is right. It has nothing to do with who is the better player... but more whose absence can be best absorbed by the team. And Lamar Odom is an easier loss for the Lakers to absorb than T-Mac. But its closer than people think.</div> Well I mostly agree with you, but I just would not cite the plus/minus statistic so religiously.
Thread locked. If you guys can't have a solid debate without resorting to personal attacks, then there's no reason for this to go on. This also serves as a warning to all involved. Any more offences will lead to infractions given.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Anyway, Plus/minus stats mean what exactly ? I believe they are misleading, though T-Mac may very well be the better player.</div> They help convey his value to the team on the offensive end. If you want to understand what a player means to his team, it's "misleading" to only look at boxscore stats. There's a ton of stuff they don't capture. You have to consider what the team does with him on the court, and conversely what they do when he's not on the court.
