Trade Hart/Winslow/Didi/Keon/pick or CJ/Norm/Nance/Roco?

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by SharpesTriumph, Apr 18, 2022.

?

What would you rather have?

  1. CJ, Norm, Nance, Roco (bird rights)

    24 vote(s)
    40.0%
  2. Hart, Winslow, Didi, Keon, MIL pick

    36 vote(s)
    60.0%
  1. Wade Garrett

    Wade Garrett Exactly right.

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    Ahh...They will not be #1 after 20 games, pretty safe bet.
    Shame that is your barometer, though.
     
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  2. Wade Garrett

    Wade Garrett Exactly right.

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    Right on, migo.
     
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  3. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

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    I still won't take back my position that the Clippers trade was and is a bad one. We sent out more talent than we brought back and we did so without getting any first round picks... we also did so way too early to be sure there weren't better trades out there for RoCo and Norm who obviously weren't a fit and should not have remained on the team. So regardless of how well we do unless Winslow on his own is out performing Norm and RoCo combined and he isn't, the trade was shitty and is still shitty.

    The NOLA trade was salvaged with the move that brought us Jerami Grant and maybe that move was always guaranteed to happen.

    I don't know if Cronin was solely to blame for the Clippers trade and it doesn't make me think that he'll shit the bed again by pulling the trigger way too soon on a bad trade but that is what happened and nothing that happens this season or going forward will change that.
     
  4. Wizard Mentor

    Wizard Mentor Wizard Mentor

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    If we are moving the ball, he is an asset for sure. However, last game I saw he and Dame passing the ball back and forth on the perimeter - they weren't really even guarding him.
     
  5. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    Umm...you're not really pointing to the results of blatant tanking as evidence opposing the addition-by-subtraction claim, are you?
     
  6. Pinwheel1

    Pinwheel1 Well-Known Member

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    I would think that how well we do is the biggest factor.....assuming Winslow is in the rotation.

    Small sample size but I watched two Clipper games so far and neither Norm nor Roco are currently fitting in. Again small sample size, but Norm was a -17 last night (lowest on the team) and Roco was 1-5 from the field.
     
  7. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

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    How well we do has a lot of variables that have nothing to do with the Clippers trade. Dame being the first. Grant being the second. Seems like Hart has a lot of value.

    The fact remains that we gave up two players that have been highly productive during their careers for one player who is playing very productive ball for us now. Also, RoCo and Norm are giving the Clippers more minutes in their wins right now than Winslow and Keon are giving us in ours. We traded more talent for less talent and we didn't get back enough draft compensation to make up the difference. We did that before our hand was forced by the trade deadline. If people are not willing to admit that we made a bad trade even if we are better now because of other moving parts then they're fooling themselves.
     
  8. blazerfan11

    blazerfan11 Well-Known Member

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    Tell me what your opinion was (at the time) of Neil Olshey's trades for Normal Powell and Robert Covington.
     
  9. SharpeScooterShooter

    SharpeScooterShooter SharpeShooter

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    If the players we gave up didn't fit as well with the players we have now, then it was a good trade. Period.
    you are so caught up on little things. The talent level disparity you keep clinging to is obviously not what you think it is and the recent play and numbers prove it.
    The roco we had was not valuable. At all. Cj has only as much value as someone is willing to pay. Find the player we could have had that would fit better than cj, that another team would have traded cj for, with comparable skills?
    until you find that, your saying its a shitty trade is simply your opinion man.

    Stop overthinking it and just get over it bro.
     
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  10. HailBlazers

    HailBlazers RipCity

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    RoCo and Norm are fools gold.
     
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  11. SharpeScooterShooter

    SharpeScooterShooter SharpeShooter

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    The fact remains we gave up two highly productive players during their careers. But are thier career numbers what they put up for us??
    This argument is asinine. This is like saying we should have been able to trade melo for an all star because of his career production.
    Their career production matters not. What matters is what they did with us, which was next to nothing.
     
  12. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

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    I liked RoCo as an acquisition but thought that we overpaid (two firsts was too much it should have been one). I was also far more pissed when the Rockets flipped one of those picks and Ariza for Wood.

    I was pissed about the Norm trade. I didn't understand why we would trade someone who had the size that we needed and was younger and trending up for an older guy who made us even smaller than we already were and we were already too small.

    RoCo played well here, he just didn't play well for Chauncey. Norm was a bad fit from the beginning but just because players with a ton of talent and skill don't fit our system doesn't lower their value around the league where they could fit in.
     
  13. Pinwheel1

    Pinwheel1 Well-Known Member

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    I guess combined, but last night Winslow gave us 25 minutes in our win, while Norm gave them 21 and Roco 14 in their loss.
    And we still have players sitting on the bench that need minutes. (At the position that Norm would have played)

    The bottom line is some embellished how bad the trade was, holding on to the fantasy that they would have gotten 1st round picks for them right before the deadline. I don't think they would have and we will never know for sure.
     
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  14. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

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    Look at their stats while they were here and tell me they did next to nothing:
    https://www.espn.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/2595516/norman-powell
    https://www.espn.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/2490620/robert-covington

    Now look at Winslow's stats during that same time frame:
    https://www.espn.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/3135047/justise-winslow

    Now whose argument looks asinine?
     
  15. SharpeScooterShooter

    SharpeScooterShooter SharpeShooter

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    Winslow is the only guy you are able to reference though?

    you are looking at this in a vacuum instead of the big picture. Roco was a shell of himself and continues to be. Powell never fit and doesn't fit on his new team. The salary savings, etc

    keep beating that drum if you want, but its pretty clear the trades have made us better and that equates to value.
     
  16. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

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    We can't know for sure but we do know that the trade was made very early, so we can know that not all options were explored. Anything people want to say to justify this trade is revisionist bullshit in my opinion. We traded two guys that were very productive for us while they were here and we got back two guys that were hardly giving the Clippers anything. Just look at the stats previous to the trade. I'm not saying that RoCo and Norm should have stayed because they didn't fit well on the roster or in Chauncey's system, I'm just saying that if we were going to get back so little in return, it should have been right at the deadline after all other options had been exhausted.
     
  17. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

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    Let's be fair here, Roco was not a productive player for the Blazers, not really under Terry and especially not under Chauncy.

    Norm was excellent for the Clippers last year when there was no one really ahead of him in the rotation. His production so far this year (early) has been abysmal. They better hope he recovers because if he is not, they are better off not playing him. (He is shooting 25% from the field, 13% from 3, his PER is negative (that's rare).

    Covington is marginally better than what he was in Portland under Terry, and they are paying $12m/year for that. So, if the question is: do you want to pay $30m a year for Covington and Powell or pay $5m a year for Winslow and Keon, that's a no question, the Winslow / Keon pair is a ton better. Even if we do not have the 6 times the salary production (assume they are all paid the same), the contributions of Winslow + Keon (nothing so far) for the Blazers this year are better than Covington (not as good as Winslow) and Powell (negative value, so far).

    Now, I imagine that what we see from Winslow and Covington is not going to change much. I expect Powell to be better than what he is now, because what he is now makes Russel Westbrook (PER as of now of 8.6) seem like an efficiency god. Anything we get from Keon is a bonus this year, he has potential, but it will not be of importance this year unless we have horrible injuries. So, even if Norm goes back to his career efficiency (which is a little higher than what Winslow gives you now offensively and less than Winslow defensively) - even if it is twice the talent with Covington + Norm over Winslow, it is not worth 6 times the cost.

    That trade was a fleecing of epic proportion in favor of Portland.

    Even if that salary dump did not enable the trade for Jeremy Grant and resigning Ant + Nurk, you are wrong. A young Covington might have been very talented. The Covington of the last 3 years is not as good as Winslow is now and costs a lot more.
     
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  18. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

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    The Jerami Grant trade made us far far better. Combining that with the rest of what we did with NOLA did make us better. Norm and RoCo did not fit here, that's true... it's way too early to say how well they fit with the Clippers. Justise seems to be the kind of glue guy role player that fits in Chauncey's system very well but still it's a bit early to make that call solidly.

    The fact remains that we gave up far more production than we got back... at the time especially but it remains the case right now. You can't do that in this league and still consider it a good trade unless you get draft compensation to make up the difference and we did not.
     
  19. SharpeScooterShooter

    SharpeScooterShooter SharpeShooter

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    No, you don't know all options weren't explored. That is not a fact.
     
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  20. SharpeScooterShooter

    SharpeScooterShooter SharpeShooter

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    We shall have to agree to disagree. But really. You should move on. Its done and over with. Beating this dead horse opinion isn't gonna change anything.
     

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