Trade Hart/Winslow/Didi/Keon/pick or CJ/Norm/Nance/Roco?

He's an awesome fit in a 3 guard rotation with Dame and Ant

 

Instead of building straw men, you should identify posters who are saying the things you say they are saying, and acting the way you say they are acting. Using such a broad fucking brush to paint everybody who isn't going ballistic about Cronin, like you are, is horse shit. I don't know why your rhetoric keeps getting so personal. That surprises me because it's really the first time I've noticed you doing that

I don't know what the offers were, but I do know what Jake Fisher said about a couple for CJ..and so do you at this point. I'll certainly revise my opinion if just one of you guys screaming so loudly and so often would give a link for a better trade that Cronin turned down. Your assumption that there had to be better deals out there aren't persuasive to a lot of us. It would certainly be informative what instructions for the deadline Cronin was given by the Vulcans. You have to be aware there is a possibility there were offers for those traded Blazers that didn't fit the parameters set by Seattle which was obviously cutting current & future payroll as the #1 priority

 

Unlike them, he hasn't won a title.

If Dame won a title for us I wouldn't give a shit if he kept us in mediocrity for another 5+ years.

 

unlike them, he's had a stupid fucking GM for the entirety of his career

 

You're not who I'm addressing, you're pretty damn even on this and probably taking a lot more sensible position than I am. You don't love the deals and wish we would have secured better draft capital to offset the talent discrepancy. At the same time you don't pretend to know for sure that there were better deals than we got. It's a good place to be in, a little disappointed but not pissed.

 

While that is true, doesn't mean we should just hang onto Dame just because. The ultimate goal to win a title is more important. That could include Dame or it might not. I'm certainly squeamish about extending him with a max deal and paying him 50+ at age 35.

 

ok...it's just hard to know because I've certainly pushed back against the idea there had to be better deals out there

I think Cronin had instructions from the Vulcans that prioritized cutting current and future payroll. Which by the way is pretty common for a team up for sale. So, as I mentioned, it's possible there were other deals out there that offered better returning talent but didn't cut enough payroll.

again, my hunch is that A) Cronin probably did a good job meeting the requirements set by Seattle. And B) he did a mediocre job of asset for asset trading, but he may have been limited a lot by A). My issue is that Portland needs a good GM to run the draft and off-season, not a mediocre one. My worry is that the Vulcans will be really happy with the Blazers dropping guaranteed salary by 190M and reward Cronin with the job

 

I'm not crazy about paying him 50M at age 35 either. Of course, if it is a 150M salary cap and a 185M tax line by then, that kind of salary won't be crippling at all

and I disagree....if Dame doesn't demand to be traded Portland should absolutely hang on to him because. If he doesn't want out, his trade value is irrelevant.

I've been a Blazer fan since the beginning. I went thru Bill Walton wanting out, getting out, and then suing the Blazers. And Clyde wanting out, getting out, and showing no loyalty to Portland at all. And Aldridge wanting out. Dame has pretty much been all in, and that means a lot to me

 

That makes sense if you got to witness a championship. I did not. And I would like to win one. If that means moving on from Dame, fine. I'd be happy as can be if we actually could put a contender around him. If we are going to trot out a team fighting for the play-in the next year or two, please trade him. I'd hope I can watch him on a contender and root for him elsewhere.

 

All very legitimate takes and possibilities. I don't know if the Paul Allen trust would sell the team before the likely increase in value that will come with the new TV deal that should start in the fall of 2025. So yeah unloading Norm's contract and getting under the tax like they did in that first deal might have been a mandate and maybe all of the mediocre moves were made under pressures from Vulcan. You're definitely right that Joe handling this very crucial off season because he bent to the will of Vulcan and they could look to reward him for that is pretty worrisome.

In what has become rare from me lately. On the bright side, if you're right and everything Joe did was extremely affected in the negative by mandates from ownership, we may have no idea of the good things the guy is capable of. There are just a lot of unknowns and that's kinda shitty when the stated goal is to contend immediately with Dame leading the way.

 

I don't have a problem with that

what I do have a problem with is people convinced it's impossible to build a contender around Dame and saying Portland should just give up and trade him before they have even tried to build that team. Because for damn sure, Olshey never tried and he was only fired 4 months ago. I want to see the Blazers give an honest effort over a couple of drafts, off-seasons, and trade deadlines.

 

I just have no faith in ownership and Cronin to put a contender around Dame. No bandaids like Jerami Grant to parade out there like we are now contenders.

 

I'll say this...maybe my view on the deadline deals is colored by the fact I wanted Olshey fired for years, the Dame/CJ back court shit-canned, and a different roster built. It started with getting rid of Olshey. That made me extremely happy. And I'm convinced that the players traded by Portland, who accounted for half of the payroll, had a combined talent level that had Portland's trajectory flat-lined. A treadmill in purgatory. So I'm pretty happy that there will not be an 8th reboot olshey-vision

the new vision might not be any better, maybe worse, but at least there are finally some options for optimism. There weren't any when olshey was in charge

 

well, that wouldn't change if Dame was traded though. If that management team couldn't build a contender around Dame they sure as shit aren't going to build one around Simons. Besides that, it might be Cronin trading him

 

Regardless of if both Olshey and Cronin are shit or if Cronin is a lot better, I'll tell you I like Cronin a lot more. The guy definitely doesn't make me want to puke every time he talks.

I also wanted off of the Dame/CJ ride and had wanted off since after their first season together. I actually never understood the idea of pairing the two together. Even though I was sick of them and definitely wanted to keep Dame, I always thought CJ was a great offensive weapon who if surrounded by the right guys is very valuable and was disappointed in the return. I was pretty pissed that the disappointment robbed me of what should have been the fulfillment of something I'd been asking for, for a very long time.

 

This comment doesn't make sense. One of the most important skills of a GM is managing the owner, especially the worse the owner is. Say what you want about Neil, and he had plenty of faults, but he was pretty good at that with both Paul and Jody.

 

This is one of the reasons I'm fine with holding off on a Dame trade even though I believe there is no way for the Blazers to contend. I don't want to see current management trying to get value for Dame nor oversee a rebuild.

 

The question is what team is better:

Dame plus Simons haul

or

Simons plus Dame haul

 

People just say this without backing it up. What gave you the notion that this was true? Who'd you hear this from?