<div class="quote_poster">Quoting THE DREAM:</div><div class="quote_post">Thank you......Kobe doesn't get as many as assists, for the simple fact that Kobe is a scorer 1st...the help around both men is equal....he's not half the floor general that Bron, Nash, or Billups are....My biggest problem with Kobe (don't jump all over Kobe fans) is that it seems as if he doesn't have a balanced attack....sometimes I think he overshoots the ball and takes bad shots, while other times he's too passive (like certain games in the Phoenix series).......Kobe has to learn to get his within the flow of the game, with everyone else still getting there's......Even when they were winning their first 3 games against Phoenix I thought Kobe was being to passive.......being a team player doesn't mean taking 1 shot the whole half, he needs to take his shots if the lakers are going to win, but at the same time don't overshoot and take your teammates out the flow of the game..............just an honest opinion.</div> Steve's random quote from NBA LIVE "....when are people going to get this into their thick skull?" Again, Mr. Dream, you need to give Kobe a break really. Kobe took 3 shots in the 2nd half of Game 7 wasn't his fault for the team losing. Kobe had 15 or 18 in the 1st half and his team was still down by 15 pts! Even if Kobe tries to shoot, the Lakers would lose anyway. In that game, Kobe was trying to get his teammates going in a ryhmes so that he can take over in the 4th quarter when the game gets closer, but that never happened because his teammates fail to 1) play defense, 2) shooting. Again, get it straight, when Kobe shoots too much is because his teammates hit brick. Watch the tape again, Kobe got double, even tripple team, and he passed to the open guys but nobody could hit anything. And if Kobe starts shooting, people will say his ballhogging is the reason they lost. No matter what Kobe did in Game 7, no one will appreciate him. Anyway the Lakers lost Game 7 was due to the bad interior defense. End of Story, move on... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Too bad this is the NBA and not a street ball tournament....and please stop with the Lebron gets his calls.....every superstar (Kobe included) gets their fair share of calls....I can't how many times over the years where I saw Kobe and Shaq get away with certain things.....it happens to every superstar, it shouldn't, but it does. </div> Actually Lebron get more calls in his favor than any superstars. I saw Lebron traveled multiple times but no calls; everytime he got a slight bump, it's a foul. There is a reason why he leads the league in And-1 point. Kobe had his jersey pulled a lot of times, but no calls. Stern and the NBA always protect Lebron because he is the "future" and the "NBA golden child".
That guys a f*cking moron.... In one sentence he says "don't defer to the bryant-ettes" and the next he says "let the game come to you" If he wasn't too busy trying to come up with pansy-as* terms he would know that THOSE ARE THE SAME THING. Kobe DID let the game come to him, he stuck to the game plan which got them their ONLY 3 wins in 11 tries in the past 2 years in a span of just 4 games... This guy is completely contradicting himself in every single way. If I knew where this guy lived, I seriosly would shove my fist down his throat until I felt a pulsing, then- like public enemy # 1...I'd rip out his heart. What a f*cking f*g. Alright I'm done, i'm probably gonna take some heat for this post so I'm ready.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting ilive4ball:</div><div class="quote_post">That guys a f*cking moron.... In one sentence he says "don't defer to the bryant-ettes" and the next he says "let the game come to you" If he wasn't too busy trying to come up with pansy-as* terms he would know that THOSE ARE THE SAME THING. Kobe DID let the game come to him, he stuck to the game plan which got them their ONLY 3 wins in 11 tries in the past 2 years in a span of just 4 games... This guy is completely contradicting himself in every single way. If I knew where this guy lived, I seriosly would shove my fist down his throat until I felt a pulsing, then- like public enemy # 1...I'd rip out his heart. What a f*cking f*g. Alright I'm done, i'm probably gonna take some heat for this post so I'm ready.</div> haha pistons brawl . Who are you mentioning anyway? let calm down, he has his right to express his opinion, but we don't need to take it serious. The guy probably on crack haha so let him go.
It is absolutely insane to say that Kobe has a better supporting cast than Lebron. Lebron has every type of specialist necessary for team success, with the exception of a dishing pg. Its pointless to bring up Kobe's rings. What exactly was Kobe doing when he was Lebron's age? Kobe has as many rings as Lebron has years in the L, you can't knock Lebron for that, especially since Kobe didn't win a ring that fast.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Again, Mr. Dream, you need to give Kobe a break really. Kobe took 3 shots in the 2nd half of Game 7 wasn't his fault for the team losing. Kobe had 15 or 18 in the 1st half and his team was still down by 15 pts! Even if Kobe tries to shoot, the Lakers would lose anyway. In that game, Kobe was trying to get his teammates going in a ryhmes so that he can take over in the 4th quarter when the game gets closer, but that never happened because his teammates fail to 1) play defense, 2) shooting. Again, get it straight, when Kobe shoots too much is because his teammates hit brick. Watch the tape again, Kobe got double, even tripple team, and he passed to the open guys but nobody could hit anything. And if Kobe starts shooting, people will say his ballhogging is the reason they lost. No matter what Kobe did in Game 7, no one will appreciate him. Anyway the Lakers lost Game 7 was due to the bad interior defense. End of Story, move on... </div> You missed the whole point of my post......nothing is wrong with passing to your teammates, but when you have a player like Kobe (who is a great scorer) there comes a time when you have to take your shots.....I don't know if Kobe quite understands that yet. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">It is absolutely insane to say that Kobe has a better supporting cast than Lebron</div> and why is that???........Hughes was banged up for most of the year (and is still banged up now), Damon Jones has had a bad season, Illgauskas is an overpayed bum (yes I know at one time he was an allstar center, but father time has been kickin his ### as of late), Flip Murray seems to be inconsistent............to be honest if the cavs had Lamar Odom I might actually give them a shot at beating Detroit.........the lakers lost and it wasn't just because of Kobe's supporting cast, Kobe deserves some of the blame also. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Actually Lebron get more calls in his favor than any superstars.</div> Dude.........just stop.............Kobe and Shaq got away with murder during their 3peat.....Jordan got away with murder.....Bird got away with murder...Wilt freagin Chamberlin never fouled out of a game (and I find that hard to believe considering he was a big man)...superstars have always gotten there fair share of calls....this just didn't start with Lebron.
Once again Kobe getting the dirt and LeBron the diamond. if Kobe had half of good of a supporting cast as LeBron they would be way better.
please stop using the lame excuse of the "supporting cast"....you guys act like Lebron has the Pistons playing around him...lol.....both of their supporting casts, are average.....not bad, not great, but average.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting THE DREAM:</div><div class="quote_post">....My biggest problem with Kobe (don't jump all over Kobe fans) is that it seems as if he doesn't have a balanced attack</div> I have to agree with you on this point. This has also been my criticism of Kobe Bryant so far in his career. I sometimes wonder if he's over thinking the game plan based on his pre-game preparation and doesn't trust his instincts enough to adjust. What impresses me about LeBron James is his anticipation. He is three steps ahead of everyone else on the court and goes through his options to determine the best plan of attack. He trusts his instincts a lot more than Kobe in my opinion, and this allows him to be more efficient on offense. A good analogy would be chess. For Kobe his chess moves are counter moves based on what his opponent does. For LeBron he can see 3 moves ahead on the chess board and can set up his chess pieces accordingly. For example, Kobe Bryant gets double teamed and then reacts to it, by trying to split it, or pass out to the open man. LeBron James can see the double team coming and makes his decision, before it the double team has a chance to get set. I think Kobe Bryant will eventually figure out the formula and take his game to another level. The key is going to be keeping the core group of players together and just giving them time to play with one another. We saw some flashes of what this team is capable of doing in the Phoenix series, and I felt Kobe played with balance in the first 5 games of the series. He trusted his instincts and his teammates stepped up their focus and executed.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting kobe4life:</div><div class="quote_post">Steve's random quote from NBA LIVE "....when are people going to get this into their thick skull?" Again, Mr. Dream, you need to give Kobe a break really. Kobe took 3 shots in the 2nd half of Game 7 wasn't his fault for the team losing. Kobe had 15 or 18 in the 1st half and his team was still down by 15 pts! Even if Kobe tries to shoot, the Lakers would lose anyway. In that game, Kobe was trying to get his teammates going in a ryhmes so that he can take over in the 4th quarter when the game gets closer, but that never happened because his teammates fail to 1) play defense, 2) shooting. Again, get it straight, when Kobe shoots too much is because his teammates hit brick. Watch the tape again, Kobe got double, even tripple team, and he passed to the open guys but nobody could hit anything. And if Kobe starts shooting, people will say his ballhogging is the reason they lost. No matter what Kobe did in Game 7, no one will appreciate him. Anyway the Lakers lost Game 7 was due to the bad interior defense. End of Story, move on...</div> I'm not hating here, just pointing out a fact to prove that that point is wrong. In Game 6, we all know Kobe put up 50 pts on 35 shots. He was shooting lights out and was amazing, but Kwame Brown was 8-9 from the floor, Odom was 8-14(and 2 of them that he missed were 3's when the game was out of reach, so he was really 8-12 when the game was in doubt). Devean George was 5-8 including 3-5 from 3 land. I wouldn't call those guys shooting bricks. Smush is the only guy that you can really consider not shooting good and he went 0-5, Luke Walton was 5-11. Those were the 5 guys that saw the court when the game was on the line with Kobe. I don't see how you can say that Kobe took over because his teammates couldn't make a shot. Put those 5 together and you get 55.32%. If that's shooting bricks, then I don't know what shooting good would be.... <div class="quote_poster">Quoting slpnsld23:</div><div class="quote_post">Once again Kobe getting the dirt and LeBron the diamond. if Kobe had half of good of a supporting cast as LeBron they would be way better.</div> Dude, he does have half as good. He's got the best player in Lamar Odom out of Cavs/Lakers other than Kobe/Lebron. I would give the Cavs a slight advantage of the supporting cast, but they both are average. Read the quote below me..... <div class="quote_poster">Quoting THE DREAM:</div><div class="quote_post">please stop using the lame excuse of the "supporting cast"....you guys act like Lebron has the Pistons playing around him...lol.....both of their supporting casts, are average.....not bad, not great, but average.</div> EXACTLY! Also about the calls, all superstars get calls. Kobe/Lebron are the 2 best players in basketball, they both get the most calls. It's stupid to argue who gets the most calls, because it's irrevelant, because they both get a lot of calls.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm not hating here, just pointing out a fact to prove that that point is wrong. In Game 6, we all know Kobe put up 50 pts on 35 shots. He was shooting lights out and was amazing, but Kwame Brown was 8-9 from the floor, Odom was 8-14(and 2 of them that he missed were 3's when the game was out of reach, so he was really 8-12 when the game was in doubt). Devean George was 5-8 including 3-5 from 3 land. I wouldn't call those guys shooting bricks. Smush is the only guy that you can really consider not shooting good and he went 0-5, Luke Walton was 5-11. Those were the 5 guys that saw the court when the game was on the line with Kobe. I don't see how you can say that Kobe took over because his teammates couldn't make a shot. Put those 5 together and you get 55.32%. If that's shooting bricks, then I don't know what shooting good would be....</div> Not sure if you watched the game or not, but all those players except Kobe melted down the stretch, and Kobe tried his best to bail his teammates out. Look at the 4th Quarter and OT shot chart: Smush Parker 0/2, (including the play I felt cost the Lakers the game, when he took the ball and got swatted instead of setting up the offense) Lamar Odom 3/6 Luke Walton 0/3 Kwame Brown 1/1 Kobe Bryant was 6/12 during that span. So aside from Kobe and Odom shooting 50%, the rest of the players shot a combined 1/6 from the field in crunch time. A lot is being made about the Lakers offense, but the reason the Lakers lost was their defense. In Game 6 they scored 118 points, offense is not the problem when you shoot 55% from the field. The defense in Game 6 and Game 7 is the reason the Lakers lost this series.
Well it's the part of the business and this is how people act. Look up to the winners and if there's a new fresh one on the corner, people start acting like they have been a fan of new guy for 10 years. If Kobe gets better teammates and starts winning again, go deep into playoffs or even win another ring, people are going to act like they have never doubted. Until then, Kobe and his fans have to wait.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jurassic:</div><div class="quote_post">It is absolutely insane to say that Kobe has a better supporting cast than Lebron. Lebron has every type of specialist necessary for team success, with the exception of a dishing pg. Its pointless to bring up Kobe's rings. What exactly was Kobe doing when he was Lebron's age? Kobe has as many rings as Lebron has years in the L, you can't knock Lebron for that, especially since Kobe didn't win a ring that fast.</div> I agree with your first point, Kobe's supporting cast is far worse than Lebron's. Other than Odom, who does he have? Cavs have the advantage at every other position including bench. To say that Lebron's supporting cast is "average" is just ridiculous. Kobe's supporting cast is probably one of the 5 worst in the league. Actually Kobe is the second youngest player to be drafted, and he won those 3 rings during his 5th, 6th and 7th years, so he was pretty successful at a young age as well.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">Not sure if you watched the game or not, but all those players except Kobe melted down the stretch, and Kobe tried his best to bail his teammates out. Look at the 4th Quarter and OT shot chart: Smush Parker 0/2, (including the play I felt cost the Lakers the game, when he took the ball and got swatted instead of setting up the offense) Lamar Odom 3/6 Luke Walton 0/3 Kwame Brown 1/1 Kobe Bryant was 6/12 during that span. So aside from Kobe and Odom shooting 50%, the rest of the players shot a combined 1/6 from the field in crunch time. A lot is being made about the Lakers offense, but the reason the Lakers lost was their defense. In Game 6 they scored 118 points, offense is not the problem when you shoot 55% from the field. The defense in Game 6 and Game 7 is the reason the Lakers lost this series.</div> Well I said that you can count Smush out, since he did suck. Does Odom's shots count the 2 that he missed from 3 at the end of the game when it was basically over? The Lakers should have continued to pound it downlow. Tim Thomas(6'10 208) and Boris Diaw(6'8 203) were playing downlow at the end of the game. You could have scored at willEven if that doesnt' count the 2 3's at the end of the game, the bigs were 4-7(if that does count the last 2 3's, then 4-5 and no idea why they didn't keep doing that) and even if they missed it would have prevented the Suns from running out(well making it harder) instead of Kobe shooting 6-12(if I remember correctly he was settling for the jumper) that gave long rebounds and easier fast break opportunities. I'm not trying to take anything away from Kobe, because he had a hell of a game. I'm just saying I think they would have had a better chance to win that game if they continued to pound it downlow. btw, I'm not one of the people that questions Kobe giving up in Game 7, I like the fact that he stayed with the gameplan.
I'm pretty sure more than half of the people that posted in this thread didn't even bother to read the article that the thread is supposed to be discussing. All the author seems to be doing is comparing the crunch time performances by LeBron and Kobe, and pointing out the obvious fact that LeBron was more successful than Kobe. It's a stupid article that compares two things that really have nothing to do with each other. The fact that it has sparked so much discussion is beyond me.
well, ive never really bothered to read any topics discussing kobe and mj, kobe and lebron, or kobe and wade. all i know is that it will end up being a long thread with stupid arguments that we have basically all heard of, baiting and flaming, and arguments that go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Brian:</div><div class="quote_post">well, ive never really bothered to read any topics discussing kobe and mj, kobe and lebron, or kobe and wade. all i know is that it will end up being a long thread with stupid arguments that we have basically all heard of, baiting and flaming, and arguments that go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on</div>Yeah, it's like all people have to do is read a thread title and they let their emotions get the best of them. Before you know it, there's pages upon pages of pointless arguments that are irrelevent to the topic. I look at LeBron and Kobe as two of the best players in the NBA, but at no point do I waste my time trying to determine which one is "better" when it really doesn't matter in the end, not even a little bit.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting GatorsowntheSEC:</div><div class="quote_post">Well I said that you can count Smush out, since he did suck. Does Odom's shots count the 2 that he missed from 3 at the end of the game when it was basically over? The Lakers should have continued to pound it downlow. Tim Thomas(6'10 208) and Boris Diaw(6'8 203) were playing downlow at the end of the game. You could have scored at willEven if that doesnt' count the 2 3's at the end of the game, the bigs were 4-7(if that does count the last 2 3's, then 4-5 and no idea why they didn't keep doing that) and even if they missed it would have prevented the Suns from running out(well making it harder) instead of Kobe shooting 6-12(if I remember correctly he was settling for the jumper) that gave long rebounds and easier fast break opportunities. </div> You and Shape do have a point. It doesn't matter if you're 10/10, it's all come down to making the shot when the game counts. And far as I know, Game 6, everybody played well except down the sketch like Shape pointed out. The guys seem to disappear; Brown made two important mistakes: 1) he should've fouls Tim Thomas (Lakers still have 1 to give) instead he flied over and Tim hitted a big 3 to tie the game; 2) In overtime, he missed a huge shot in the low post which Phil simply couldn't take it but to take him out of the game. You can also blame Smush Parker for his lack of defense against Nash, Lamar Odom for not fouling when they still have 1 to give (Phil told Odom to foul in the hurdle), Kobe for not taking the game inside in overtime. Anyway you need to rewatch the game, Kwame was in foul trouble early in Game 6 which is why the Lakers can't go inside. Anyway, if you see me make comments about Lakers Game 6 early, I actually blamed Kobe for the lost? Why? because he's the best player; he needs to drive drive drive to the basket instead of pulling up for a lazy jumper. But hey, after thinking about it, if the Lakers executed well down in the 4th quarter, we would played the Clippers by now.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 44Thrilla:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm pretty sure more than half of the people that posted in this thread didn't even bother to read the article that the thread is supposed to be discussing. All the author seems to be doing is comparing the crunch time performances by LeBron and Kobe, and pointing out the obvious fact that LeBron was more successful than Kobe. It's a stupid article that compares two things that really have nothing to do with each other. The fact that it has sparked so much discussion is beyond me.</div> The name Kobe Bryant seems to have that affect on everyone. The minute someone hears the word Kobe, everyone has something to say. Haters and Fans alike. I've just been kicking back absorbing it all in. This thread is actually pretty informative.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He is three steps ahead of everyone else on the court and goes through his options to determine the best plan of attack.</div> by three steps ahead of the defense you mean traveling then I agree. Yet another Kobe hater writing his bull I really can't believe people are comparing the two at this point in both of their careers and whoever said that LeBron is better in this point in time needs to stop smoking crack with Tyrone Biggums.....I also shake my head to whoever said Lebron is better because he gets more assists and rebounds so that makes him better <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">well, ive never really bothered to read any topics discussing kobe and mj, kobe and lebron, or kobe and wade. all i know is that it will end up being a long thread with stupid arguments that we have basically all heard of, baiting and flaming, and arguments that go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on</div> There should be a golden post of the year award and if there was you just won it.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">whoever said that LeBron is better in this point in time needs to stop smoking crack with Tyrone Biggums</div> Why is insane to think that Lebron is better than Kobe.......explain to me, what has Kobe done since Shaq left to make you think that Kobe as a leader of his team is better than Bron?????......It's not insane to think that Lebron is better than Kobe....and a lot of NBA experts would tell you that.....stop treating Kobe as if he's God, and that no one can touch him.....like I've mentioned before you can make an argument that Kobe is better, but don't act like someone thinking Bron is better is ridiculous.....cause it's not.
