<div class="quote_poster">Quoting BlueBayou87:</div><div class="quote_post">You dont shoot three shots in a playoffs elimination game's 2nd half regardless. If Kobe had scored, he would have drawn more defenders and other people would have even more efficient games, Kobe needs to score for his team to win, straight up.</div> He was drawing 3 defenders in the second half right from the start, he made the correct decision to pass out to the open man and swing the ball to the weakside, but his teammates didn't make the shots. 02civic I agree with you, Kobe could have been more aggressive, but scoring wasn't the way to get back in this game. The only way the Lakers could get back in this game was getting defensive stops. The only way to get defensive stops was to get the confidence going on offense. The Lakers lost their confidence after losing Game 6, heading into Game 7 they were already defeated and just showed up because they had to. The people who follow the team said you could just look into their eyes after they blew Game 6 and you knew they were going to get blown out in Phoenix. Kobe Bryant was the only player who showed up for Game 7. Maybe Kobe Bryant looked around the locker room at halftime and saw the quit in his teammates eyes and said F' it.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Lostmyluggage:</div><div class="quote_post">Do you people honestly believe that at the end of both of their careers when they both retire, that Kobes numbers will be > than LeBrons? By numbers I am talking all statistics including number of MVP's and rings.</div> Statistics dont make you a better player. What are you trying to get across here? Bill Russel must be the greatest player in the NBA because he has 11 rings. He is almost twice as good as Jordan. Bill Russel > Lebron James Wilt Chamberlain must be the best player on earth because he averaged 50.4 points in a season and is the only player in history with over 4,000 points in a season. Wilt Chamberlain > Lebron James The Big O averaged a TRIPLE DOUBLE for an ENTIRE SEASON! Can Lebron do that? The Big O > Lebron. Do you want me to go on? Are you telling me Lebron is gonna destroy all these records? For some odd reason Lebron fans come into the Laker forum to discuss Lebron. This is about the Lakers not Lebron. Discuss Lebron in your own forum. I for one wont come in talking down about your player in your forum. I think your the one who needs to look in the mirror before telling us that we dont know who is better. Think about the Big Picture. Stats mean next to nothing in a league such as the NBA. Stats are being broken everyday. Wait until they both retire and come and post in this thread about Lebron > Kobe. As far as Im concerned, Kobe is the best in Basketball right now.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trench:</div><div class="quote_post">Statistics dont make you a better player. What are you trying to get across here? Bill Russel must be the greatest player in the NBA because he has 11 rings. He is almost twice as good as Jordan. Bill Russel > Lebron James Wilt Chamberlain must be the best player on earth because he averaged 50.4 points in a season and is the only player in history with over 4,000 points in a season. Wilt Chamberlain > Lebron James The Big O averaged a TRIPLE DOUBLE for an ENTIRE SEASON! Can Lebron do that? The Big O > Lebron. Do you want me to go on? Are you telling me Lebron is gonna destroy all these records? For some odd reason Lebron fans come into the Laker forum to discuss Lebron. This is about the Lakers not Lebron. Discuss Lebron in your own forum. I for one wont come in talking down about your player in your forum. I think your the one who needs to look in the mirror before telling us that we dont know who is better. Think about the Big Picture. Stats mean next to nothing in a league such as the NBA. Stats are being broken everyday. Wait until they both retire and come and post in this thread about Lebron > Kobe. As far as Im concerned, Kobe is the best in Basketball right now.</div> O..M..G that was amazing.
Guys don't waste your time trying to argue with LostmyLuggage, he's just an 8-year old who is so in love with Lebron that he has to go in other forums and start threads in the Cavs forum about how good Lebron is and why he is better than every other player and will be the GOAT. Please. Right now, Kobe is the best player in the NBA, and this is from a guys who has always disliked Kobe. Stats are good, but they're not what determine's a players greatness. Anybody who knows anything about basketball can see that Kobe>Lebron, and Magic,Kareem,Jordan,Wilt,Oscar, and Russell>than them both. I may have missed a few legends.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Bobcats:</div><div class="quote_post">No wonder some Laker fans get so pissed when people like ^that come in the forum. If Kobe took 15 shots in the second half, people would be saying he shot too much. Kobe can never shoot too much or pass too much. He will always get critisized for one or the other.</div> Don't forget the pissy little brats on these forums as well who think their opinion > Yours everytime
I got one question for the Kid who lost his luggage. How can you say LeBron is better than Kobe, when LeBron admitted that Kobe was the best player in the league, publicly at least 3 times this year?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheBlackMamba:</div><div class="quote_post">I got one question for the Kid who lost his luggage. How can you say LeBron is better than Kobe, when LeBron admitted that Kobe was the best player in the league, publicly at least 3 times this year?</div> We all know Kobe is better than LAY-BRAWN, but you think a 21 year old, who's never been to the playoffs, until this year, would boast about being better than Kobe? Lebron doesn't want to say anything that might backfire in his face.
I finally watched a entire Detroit/Cavs game. Lebron is a huge boy! He's as big as Ben Wallace but has so much speed. He's just a big man!
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> thought Kobe provided an excellent answer for those questions on TNT. </div> I thought that it was a horrible answer.....like I mentioned before, as a leader of your team, you have to know when to get everyone involved, but you also have to know when something isn't working, to try to be a little more aggressive......the 2 points in why people are saying Kobe > Lebron are the following Defense and experience............Kobe is the better defender of the two, but Lebron isn't "horrible" defensively as one poster put it...and when it comes to experience, I think I'll have to disagree on that one.....Yes Kobe's been in the league longer, but when it comes to leading a team (by yourself) Lebron is actually more experienced (3 yrs to 2)....Kobe isn't use to leading his team, which is why I think it was hard for him to decide rather he should shoot or keep passing in Game 7..........to be honest I think James is the more mature leader of the two, I think Kobe still has a lot of growing to do as the sole leader of his team.....yall can agree to disagree with me on this one, but it's just an honest opinion. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Anybody who knows anything about basketball can see that Kobe>Lebron,</div> So I guess I don't know anything about basketball....I guess Scottie Pippen or Steve Kerr don't know anything about basketball....I guess a lot of analyist and fans don't know anything about basketball, because they say Lebron > Kobe.......like I've mentioned before you can make an argument that Kobe is better than Lebron or Lebron is better than Kobe, but either way it's not a no brainer.
When did Pippen say LeBron is better than Kobe? I've always heard him say Kobe is the best player in the game and LeBron has a lot to improve on to catch him. I don't agree with your argument LeBron is the more mature leader either. He plays in a simple offensive scheme so it's easier for everyone to grasp it in a short amount of time. The Triangle offense requires all 5 players to be on the same page and in position to attack the weakness of a defense. If one player is out of position, the Triangle won't work and you'll see a bad shot go up. It took the Championship Lakers 3 years before they ran the Triangle like second nature. Once the Lakers have another year together in the offense you'll see a vast improvement in Kobe's efficiency.
Well the fact that he said Lebron is better 3 years in than Jordan (eventhough that's a whole nother argument), makes me think he's thinkin Lebron >>> Kobe..........I could be wrong though. Yes the lakers have the trianlge offense, but like I pointed out earlier, the fact that Kobe (imo) hasn't figured out when to turn it on and off, kind of leads me to think that he still has a lot of growing to do as the sole leader of his basketball team.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting THE DREAM:</div><div class="quote_post">Well the fact that he said Lebron is better 3 years in than Jordan (eventhough that's a whole nother argument), makes me think he's thinkin Lebron >>> Kobe..........I could be wrong though. Yes the lakers have the trianlge offense, but like I pointed out earlier, the fact that Kobe (imo) hasn't figured out when to turn it on and off, kind of leads me to think that he still has a lot of growing to do as the sole leader of his basketball team.</div> I think he's figured out how to turn it on and off a long time ago. He did all season long with this Lakers team. He did it when he started alongside Shaq. In the playoffs the Lakers flipped the script because everyone was a lot more confident in their roles and within the offense. The Lakers just cracked under the pressure, which is a sign of being a young inexperienced playoff team. Neither Smush or Kwame were never under that type of pressure before so they folded. What Kobe needs to adjust is switching up his plan of attack within the game. He comes into a game with a particular mindset and doesn't really counter his plan of attack based on the adjustments the opposing team makes. But is this Kobe's responsibility or the coaching? If the coaches tell him to keep doing what he's doing even though it's not working, that fault falls on the coaches not Kobe. If the coaches tell Kobe he needs to make adjustments and he doesn't, then yes Kobe is at fault. I think people are taking unfair shots at Kobe for Game 7 and making blanket statements about his entire season, based on one game. Here's another viewpoint, maybe Kobe Bryant made the ultimate statement to his teammates in Game 7. We are going to live and die by sticking to team basketball. We made it this far against the #2 seed as a team, even though no one gave us a chance, we are going to go out as a team even though I will get a lot of heat for not taking over.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What Kobe needs to adjust is switching up his plan of attack within the game. He comes into a game with a particular mindset and doesn't really counter his plan of attack based on the adjustments the opposing team makes. But is this Kobe's responsibility or the coaching? If the coaches tell him to keep doing what he's doing even though it's not working, that fault falls on the coaches not Kobe. If the coaches tell Kobe he needs to make adjustments and he doesn't, then yes Kobe is at fault. </div> Good point and I agree......I think Kobe and Phil can both take some heat for Kobe only attempting 3 shots in the 2nd half.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Lostmyluggage:</div><div class="quote_post">Do you people honestly believe that at the end of both of their careers when they both retire, that Kobes numbers will be > than LeBrons? By numbers I am talking all statistics including number of MVP's and rings. Kobe is good, but please don't act like you don't know who is better.</div> Yo, Bron's cousin or something. For Bron to get more rings than Kobe, he would most likely move to another franchise. Probably bigger city that can allure players to move and play for a long time. Which means, for him to get 3 rings or even more, he would have to desert Cleveland. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Lostmyluggage:</div><div class="quote_post">Sorry to break the ice, but that opinion is in the minority. 4 outa 5 fans that actually know anything about basketball will tell you that LeBron > Kobe.</div> Sorry to freeze the ice again, your opinion is minority. Check everyone's posts here and see what they say. So these people don't know anything about basketball and you do? You must know a lot about Bron's skills because that's the only game you watch. When you only watch one team playing, you can't tell who's better than who. 4 outa 5 fans would tell you that Kobe's better than LeBron. For now. And you have to ask someone that lives outside Cleveland.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Wait how many championships does Lebron have? How many MVP's? How many scoring tittles? Dwane Wade is better than Lebron. </div> They'll both be better than Kobe next year if not already. And if thats what its about- how do yall dare compare Kobe with Jordan? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And if you look the players who are around LeBron and compare them with the playas around Kobe...</div> There's always some excuse involved when talking about Kobe am I right? Lebron would be putting up comparable if not better stats to what he's doing now if on the Lakers--- and hey, I assure you his teammates would enjoy playing with him much more than Kobe. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">about "being the center of offense" is that le bron is like their PG, he brings down the ball, passes the ball, etc... the lakers (WITH KOBE) pass around and it just so happens that kobe is the one that makes the shot almost everytime </div> 45% of the time. And if Kobe had that kind of ability, they'd play however they needed to in order to win--- you're talking about Kobe's role in the offense as an excuse, cmon man. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">They're both great passers but Kobe doesn't average the assists LeBron does because he doesn't have consistent teammates</div> Kobe NEVER averaged the assists Lebron had, wether he was playing with Jones Shaq Van Exel / Shaq Richmond Fisher Fox Shaw Harper Horry Rice/ Shaq Fisher Fox Grant George Payton Malone / Butler George Odom Atkins Mihm Why do yall insisnt on these excuses
Black Mamba <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Then you have to factor in the 3 rings</div> Shape City _ on Kobe vs Jordan <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">These past two seasons is the first time the Lakers have tried building the team around Kobe Bryant. I think a fair starting ground would be this ... 1986 Jordan (year after his injury, first real season Bulls started building around him) 2004-2005 Kobe first year without Shaq, Lakers start building around Kobe 2003-2004 LeBron's rookie year, the Cavs built around him since Day 1</div> Black Mamba _ on Kobe vs Jordan <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Shaq makes it easier to grab boards and get assists. He also draws attention and makes it easier to score. I'm not saying Wade is a bad player or that he would suck without Shaq, becuase I like Wade a lot. I'm just saying some of his numbers are because of the presence of Shaq.</div> So.. if I got this right---->> <font color=""Blue"">With Kobe and Lebron, you start comparisons using heavy influence over Kobe's 3 championships he got early in his career . / yet when comparing Kobe to Jordan....... you guys would like to cut out the first 8 years of Kobe's career, and compare only the last 2. When we compare Jordan Lebron or Mcgrady to Kobe during the Shaq years- you guys say Kobe had to defer some of his numbers to Shaq/ but when asked about comparisons with Wade, Black Mamba says Wade's numbers are only so good <u>because of </u>Shaq.... </font>hmmm?? Trench, all I do is a topic search as Im affiliated with no team -- you laker fans just seem to always have the most interesting topics
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trench:</div><div class="quote_post">Your always in the Laker forum airtight. You must be the #1 Laker fan.</div> Look, I wouldn't be in your forum talking about LeBron if these ridiculous posts like "hate kobe, praise lebron" were never created in the first place. I could go on and reply to all the bs in this thread but that would only make my arguement stronger and since everyone pretty much knows my position in this matter, there is no point.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AIRTIGHT:</div><div class="quote_post"> So.. if I got this right---->> With Kobe and Lebron, you start comparisons using heavy influence over Kobe's 3 championships he got early in his career . / yet when comparing Kobe to Jordan....... you guys would like to cut out the first 8 years of Kobe's career, and compare only the last 2. When we compare Jordan Lebron or Mcgrady to Kobe during the Shaq years- you guys say Kobe had to defer some of his numbers to Shaq/ but when asked about comparisons with Wade, Black Mamba says Wade's numbers are only so good because of Shaq.... hmmm?? </div> LOL . You know when it comes to comparing Kobe, it's so hard because of all these years, Kobe was already great (MJ level). However because of Shaq, Kobe can't reach that level of greatness until this year when he's fully healthy and playing at a level that only MJ could play.. Even last year without Shaq, Kobe was playing great up until the injury on his shoulder, which killed his legacy and the team chance of making the playoff. I agreed with you about it is kind of unfair to say Kobe is better than Wade, Tmac, Lebron because of the 3 rings. When I compared Kobe vs MJ vs Lebron vs Wade vs Tmac, I threw away all the accomplishments out of the window. WE need to look at this skill level, the talent, and the potential instead of their stat and awards, etc..I would say a fair comparation is Kobe did better offensively and defensively than any swingmen in this league today. Only MJ can do both successfully/probably better than Kobe at both end of the floor. But taking into account with Kobe's 81 pts game, 62pts in 3 quarters, and numberous 50pts games, 40pts/games; a number I think only MJ can match him. So I think it's fair to compare Kobe with MJ. And again, don't bring in the MVPs, DPOY accomplishments because those, if you know, something a player can't control. Also glad to see JBB back to business
Ok, this is another thread going no where. CLOSED I'll talk to Shape and Trench about these threads, but for now it's temp. closed.
