Haywood and Mike Miller to Portland

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Red Rooster, Jul 26, 2015.

  1. Draco

    Draco Well-Known Member

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    The Blazers clearly think so. Adding Christmas would also cost a roster spot in a year where we have 14 guaranteed contracts plus Cliff Alexander.
     
  2. Draco

    Draco Well-Known Member

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    I hear a lot of people saying we gave up NOTHING. That is incorrect. Having $3 million of extra cap room could be worth something. It very well may amount to nothing but we have 11 months to try and use it first. Not having that small extra amount of space is an advantage we no longer have. I'm all in favor of the trade and think the 2 picks are a solid haul. Maybe Miller can be bought out or traded for a smaller contract. But anyone saying we gave up nothing in this deal is technically wrong.
     
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  3. Schilly

    Schilly Well-Known Member

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    What? They didn't trade Dellavedova, he was a restricted free agent who accepted the qualifying offer for 1 year. The $75 price has nothing to do with avoiding getting a player for free, a team is required to send some commodities to the other team in a trade, $75k is the minimum amount allowed. So we either had to send a player, the rights to an unsigned player, a draft pick or cash. Cash is the least valuable asset, as it isn't a roster/talent commodity.

    Maybe we tried to get Dellevadova in a S&T and he said "forget that" and instead accepted the Qualifying offer which also enables a no trade clause.

    I just don't get this idea that it was a bad trade for the Blazers. We gave up nothing but cash, which has been pointed out has to be spent anyway, and ended up with 2 assets we didn't have before. Sure the Cavs got Trade Exceptions, but how many trade exceptions especially in the $10mil range are ever actually used before they expire, that might not pan out.

    Meanwhile people who are critical always site the "could have gotten more" angle, but personally I am of the thought that of he could have gotten more, he would have. I find it interesting that fans who don't work in the industry so often make this assumption. Beyond that in a case like we have where we have cap space to make lopsided trades we need to have assets in place to make said trades happen. There aren't.many salary dump trades where a player of any value on the court is dumped on a team with cap space. Instead cap space team is compensated with draft picks.
     
  4. oldmangrouch

    oldmangrouch persona non grata

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    :dunno: I have to say I respectfully disagree. IMHO, Christmas is a better prospect than Alexander.
     
  5. Schilly

    Schilly Well-Known Member

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    I think the assumption is we still have $19mill in capspace, so unless we have some crazy trade come up where we need to absorb $19mill in contract, then we really haven't given up much flexibility in the big picture. I kind of think we don't need to absorb a $19+ million player that another team doesn't want anymore.
     
  6. Schilly

    Schilly Well-Known Member

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    So do the Cavs.... Question I have is would you rather we didn't get the 2nd round picks and also didn't get Christmas because the 76ers were willing to do it just for the picks?
     
  7. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    Tell me more about this Dellavedova trade the Cavs did. Tell me more about how the Cavs delayed trading him in case we wanted him. Please, I really want to hear all about this. Details? Links? Please explain how you are not pulling shit out of your ass and making things up just to prove some strange point.
     
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  8. jlprk

    jlprk The ESPN mod is insane.

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    You are making Kaman's cost to us equivalent to Haywood's cost to the Mavs, which is on the order of 6-7 times as much. And you are making our ~#20 1st round pick equivalent to their ~#30 first round pick.
     
  9. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

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    You realize that a Cavs 1st round pick more than likely will be 28th, 29th or 30th? Instead we get the highest out of Minny's and the Lakers 2nd, which more than likely will be in the top 40. So you're really complaining about how we got another 2nd round pick to be 10 spots lower and in the draft, in a spot that's arguably just as good because we don't have to give a gaurunteed contract. But keep having a negative view on everything... Olshey knows what he's doing, you don't.
     
  10. jlprk

    jlprk The ESPN mod is insane.

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    Well, I have 3 things going. I'm cooking, reading the middle of the thread, and trying to read theend of the thread. So I'll answer you later. Something on the stove is boiling over.

    You accused me of making stuff up, about the $75K, I thought. I was looking right at the many posts saying $75K or $150K. I may have to reword Delladevova, whom I can't even spell, much less write about his contract. But he was an aside, a twitter I cited from someone else's post in the earlier Haywood thread. The main theme is...that Olshey could have gotten more.
     
  11. Schilly

    Schilly Well-Known Member

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    I remember a poster recently complaining about not having roster spots left to use in a lopsided trade, yet now is complaining that we go future assets instead of a player.
     
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  12. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

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    Haywood's "cost" to the Cavs isn't viable since they wouldve cut him before he cost them anything
     
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  13. Schilly

    Schilly Well-Known Member

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    Really what more could he have gotten. No sarcasm here I want a real answer as opposed to a blanket statement.
     
  14. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

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    The main theme is...you don't know squat
     
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  15. oldmangrouch

    oldmangrouch persona non grata

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    Not me. Look at the other thread - I have been on the bandwagon to acquire Christmas from the beginning.
     
  16. Draco

    Draco Well-Known Member

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    Yeah but is Christmas better than Alexander (or whoever makes that 15th spot this year) plus that 2019 pick? If the Blazers wanted Christmas they would've got him.
     
  17. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    Dude, you completely made up the entire "I see that right after the trade with us, they traded Dellavedova. They delayed that in case we wanted him." Made up! Invented! The Cavs didn't delay trading Della to us because they never traded him. You got your facts completely wrong and then made up your own scenario. A scenario of the Cavs waiting to trade Della to us before they traded him to some imaginary team.
     
  18. Draco

    Draco Well-Known Member

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    Well the Heat are $8 million over the luxury tax so maybe we do a trade with them? Then we have $11 million of cap space. Having $14 instead of $11 could definitely help in a trade. I guess maybe its splitting hairs; but each of these trades do cost us something small and give us a small return. Its misleading to round down the cost to zero then round up the benefit while comparing that benefit to zero.

    I'd be fine if we do 6 more trades like this and end up with a dozen second round picks for all our cap space. I'm sure some fans are expecting much more though. Cap space isn't worth what it once was this isn't 2003 where expiring contracts and cap space are a scarce asset.
     
  19. jlprk

    jlprk The ESPN mod is insane.

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    I didn't read that one. I remember when I argued the opposite of that, that by guaranteeing 22-year-old high schooler Montero a spot, we'd miss out on someone with experience. Many (you?) said, ridiculous, we can cut Montero anytime we want if necessary. Only a week later, Olshey can't take free Cavs because, some say, we have a full roster.

    The Haywood argument (it was a good deal vs. it should have been a much better deal) was kind of like the Montero case. Many (you? I don't remember) just looked at Montero's potential, while I steered them to talking about the more certain talents of the player who would have filled that spot. They were unable to think that way, too busy drooling over Montero. A different pair of opposites, but it had similarities to this Haywood argument.
     
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  20. jlprk

    jlprk The ESPN mod is insane.

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    I'll check, but you must be right since I didn't check when I typed it. So you got me on one sentence out of a hundred. Congrats. As I said, Dellacan'tspellit is very trivial to the overall theme, that Olshey should have gotten more. In fact, it was the first time I'd ever typed his name. I notice you're not arguing against the fact that the Cavs have an excess of players, and we could have gotten one. Just that I named the wrong one.
     

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