Healthcare Premiums Become More Expensive for the Uninsured?

That's new citizens, not new immigrants. It certainly doesn't factor illegal immigrants, which can't be tracked.

Again, you have filtered and controlled immigration. You consider how each immigrant can contribute to your society. We don't means test and that doesn't even factor in illegal immigrants, who are generally low-skill workers.

I never said Canada was a dumb country.

Canada is a first-world country. I never said differently.

I'd love to have 10x the resources, but we don't have your oil, natural gas, diamonds or hockey players.

I never said we didn't have anything to learn. In fact, our greatness comes from the fact that the US has been a magnet for people all over the world who realized they couldn't accomplish their dreams in their home country, so they came here, where the possibilites were unlimited. By definition we learn and prosper by learning from the rest of the world.

And those "best practices" have led us to our current health system. That health system--taking out homicides and vehicular fatalities, which can't be blamed on our health care system--has led to the highest life expectancy in the world. It has led to the longest lifespan after major surgery in the world. Is it more expensive? You bet. Do those who require urgent treatment ever get turned down? NEVER.

We don't have a health care problem in the US. We have a health insurance/payment problem. People have difficulty affording the services offered. But they're never denied urgent treatment. In countries with socialized medicine, you have health care problems. Health care is rationed by the State. You have to wait. You have to live with discomfort. Even if you wish to pay for the procedure, you can't get it done when you want in your own country. And when the pain becomes unbearable, you have to go to another country, usually the good ol' U.S. of A.

The bottom line is that we have chose to stake a different path. No one criticizes Sweden for trying their political "Third Way". Why criticize us? In fact, if I were Canadian, I would pray that we don't socialize our medical system. If we do, those big shiny hospitals in Plattsburgh, Burlington, Niagara Falls (NY), Detroit and Bellingham will be closed to our friends from the North.

 

That post makes as little sense as your grammar.

 

the funny thing about this statement is that there is widely understood economic concept called economies of scale- if anything, u guys should be able to drive costs down because u have more ppl. although, u guys have managed to spend more gdp per capita without an universal healthcare system than anyone else in the world. i think america spends something like 16% gdp per capital and canada spends something in the vicinity of 11 or 12%

 

visited any town halls recently? or how about those birther conventions?

 

And that military protects the Western world. If I have one beef, it's that Western Europe, Japan and Canada free rides off of us when it comes to their protection. Where does that spending go that should go to carrying their fair share? To their cradle-to-grave social programs.

I'd like to see them pick up the slack and allow us to reduce our deficit. Of course, that would require them to cut back on some of their precious benefits, and that's not happening.

It's not like Russia or China are benign entities.

 

I have a few graduate degrees in Economics, so I'll teach you something: Economies of scale only exist where there are efficiencies to be exploited, where you have a common good or service that can be applied equally and consistently. It doesn't work with something as individualized as health care. It's not like we have excess hospital beds. doctors or nurses. Our medical system is running at capacity, because Americans aren't the kind of people to be told you have to wait to be treated.

Allow me to ask a simple question: If you and I sustain the same knee injury--let's say nothing catastrophic, just some swelling and pain from a cartilage tear--which one of us gets an MRI first? Which one of us gets an arthroscopy first?

Heck, let me ask another: Do you have full control over the health care you receive? I do.

 

canada has plenty of guest workers who work construction, that trend has obviously subsided but its picking up in places like saskatchewan.

and if u guys do socialize your medicine (highly unlikely considering the current bill has certain income qualifiers)- india and thailand will be pissed about at all the revenue lost from patients deciding to stay at home and enjoy affordable treatment.

 

Are guest workers legal or illegal? Does Canada know they've entered the country?

Wrong again. In Europe and Canada, there's a strong insurance market that will send you to the States to be treated. If we close off that market, it will go to those countries. It will be a boon for them.

Do you ever post anything that's correct?

 

A sad ad hominem attack. Time to put white out on the two red stripes and maple leaf and just waive the white flag.

 

It's more than life expectancy. You have to evaluate what the health care system can and cannot address. Can the health care system stop murders? Vehicular accidents where the person dies before help can arrive? Those both have major impacts on our life expectancy. Check out this book. It was the result of an actual academic study; it's not crackpot science to support a conclusion already arrived at.

http://www.amazon.com/Business-Health-Robert-Ohsfeldt/dp/0844742406

You're assuming that number would remain static. If you drop a physician's pay from around $100-$150K down to $75-$80K (which would be the rough amount based on current Medicare reimbursements), then you're going to have fewer physicians. The best and brightest will find other ways to make a living better than the one offered in medicine.

One of the areas of "efficiency" is to raise the ratio of patients to nurses from 6:1 to 12-15:1 (which is the norm in countries with socialized medicine). We're struggling to keep up now.

The current bill also plans to reduce Medicare by 10%, which is remarkable considering the demographic time bomb the retirement of the baby boomers is going to cause.

And it's not like your country is doing a bang up job: http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=cp_x081502A.xml&show_article=1

Your own physicans are in revolt.

It's a free market solution. Why shouldn't your health care be at the top of the list for things for which you're willing to pay? What good is a second car or an X-Box if you're not around to enjoy them? People here get well. If they declare bankruptcy, it's an attempt to protect their assets rather than pay. And why didn't people get health insurance in the first place?

It is common for hospitals to work out payment plans for treatment. It's equally as common for insurancea and drug companies to provide medication and treatment at steeply discounted rates if their care isn't covered.

Waiting is a result of inadequate supply in the face of demand. You have inadequate supply; we don't. We like the supply we have. That's why 83% of people in the US is satisfied or better with the health care they have.

We don't have to share. Everyone who demands treatment gets it in this country. That's not the case in Canada.

How can we do better than offering immediate treatment and relieving pain in days instead of months and years? The mistake is socialized health care. We don't plan on following it.

We get terrific health care. You're trying to argue from a false resolution.

Tell me who's been turned away from an emergency room? No one is left out.

 

What do you want me to do? Move there and try it out?

I found more of this stuff while I was researching my gallbladder and I can't imagine those stories of people coming to this country for care is a lie.

My uncle had his feet crushed in a car accident with an illegal immigrant who was at fault and had no insurance. My uncle's work truck was not running that day so he was driving his personal truck. My uncle was insured up the wazoo if he was driving his work truck, but his personal truck had regular coverage. My uncle's feet were saved because the Trailblazers team orthopedic surgeon (I think that was who it was) was on call and rebuilt my uncle's feet like the Six Million Dollar Man.

My uncle lost everything because he was a self employed carpet installer. He was in the hospital for months and months.

Yet he is back working now and rebuilding his life. It would be probably be tougher having no feet. He isn't bitter about losing possessions, he is happy to be healthy.


So, would Obama pay his mortgage and electric bill when he was in the hospital?

You say people can't agree what is wrong with healthcare and how to fix it but we are supposed to trust the Democrats to fix it without bankrupting us.....doubtful.

 

Do you have a link that confirms this (I'm not attacking you BTW)? I've read that life expectancy in the U.S. is low compare to other industrialized nations because of our diet, lack of exercise, etc....

Absolutely!!

 

everyone knows u make up your shit to satisfy your biases. health tourism occurs all over the world- americans do it at a larger scale because of the prohibitive costs of attaining good insurance in america. just look at the thousands of patients who flock to india to undergo treatment

 

The debate is personal for me as well.

My sister was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer in 1999. Just 4 years earlier a doctor told her it was benign.

She was dropped from her insurance at work because the treatments became too expensive and no one would pick her up because of the "pre-existing condition".

We held spaghetti dinners and set up donation jars at gas stations around town. She sold her car, mortgaged her house and very reluctantly borrowed money from family and friends to make it from bill to bill.

She wasn't as lucky as your uncle though. She passed away in 04 after 6 hard years fighting the disease.

I don't think this bill is the best solution but it's the only one being presented. If it gets voted down I fear it's the end of health care reform for the next 10 years or so.

 

Of course it is cheaper in India, that is just another country that we don't seem to mind making rich at our expense. Try calling America Online's customer service number.

It is just an example but damn, your name is America Online fer fux sake.

 

there are 41 million ppl diagnosed with diabetes in america and another 6 million who dont know they have it. that 47 million represents nearly 1 in 6 americans and almost equals the entire population of canada and australia combined. maxiep practices funny math where entire segments of the american population could be excluded just to buttress the numbers. imagine if Australians decided they were going to omit aboriginals in their tabulation of life expectancy or how about if germany decided to the same with the plethora of turkish guest workers they have.

the decisive number is 37- thats where the WHO ranks the american health care system. where is maxiep's moral disgust about that?

 

england has it worse and they still manage to have lower costs with a single tier system