High usage scoring PGs who don't play defense

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by KSF-ERIC, May 12, 2022.

  1. Fairly-Hard

    Fairly-Hard Well-Known Member

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    We have not seen anything from Billups. He was going through the motions. As far as I'm concerned Blazers still have a rookie coach.
    Sure he got his feet wet and got a chance to get his personal systems into place. People need that to get productive. I'm sure he is better now about knowing how and when he should get to the arena and where to put his clipboard but as far as actual basketball goes? How could he even know what to expect when playing players that are just flailing around on the court trying to get a contract? Billups learned very little and showed even less. Terrible calling time outs but maybe that's because it didn't matter. Didn't get a chance to deal with tight pressure situations because there weren't any. Clock management? Nope! Inbounds plays in a tight game? Nope! How about personal issues with players or picking order on this team? Billups was a player so he knows it from the players perspective but still not as a coach. How about pulling a player that isn't producing when they are making 20-25 million a year?
    Blazers still have a rookie coach.
     
  2. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    obviously, the primary component of the 'last decade's' offense had a serious abdominal injury...so it's an incomplete gauge. I just made a post yesterday showing that in the 2020-21 season, when Dame was healthy, he posted about the highest points/touch number among primary ball-handlers in the league. Having a player like that sure helps an offense

    It sure seems like a lot of people forgot how good he was. A year ago, in the playoffs, he averaged 34 & 10 with a PER over 30, a TS% of .660, all while posting the highest winshare/48, OBPM, and BPM of all playoff performers. But he got no help at all from his teammates. Here's a radical idea: Blazer management (above Olshey) watched that playoff series and finally moved to the idea that dumping all those teammates while keeping Dame was an excellent idea...I agree

    there were times last season (granted...just a few) when the offensive flow and off-ball movement was some of the best it's been in a decade. CJ wasn't around to MeJ, and Dame/CJ weren't around to run their 'it's-my-turn-it's-your-turn-it's-my-turn-again-dribble-mania' offense. Yeah, Dame was a part of that problem, but that problem was the primary habit of the Stotts offense. maybe it was primary because the team talent didn't allow for anything else to be effective, that I don't know even though I do know the team talent was not good and for damn sure terribly balanced

    so I'm kind of hopeful. For sure the roster needs a ton more help. And for sure the desperate need is for at least one higher quality two-way wing who is a good & willing passer. getting Dame back, having him buy into Chauncey's system (and nobody has ever said Dame was not coachable) and adding a quality forward (with Hart as the 3rd guard) would give the Blazers options on offense they haven't had in Dame's career
     
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  3. Fairly-Hard

    Fairly-Hard Well-Known Member

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    People keep talking about "Chauncey's System"?
    What system is that? Elleby-Rat-Blevins ball? Seriously what system has Chauncey shown anyone?
     
  4. Wizard Mentor

    Wizard Mentor Wizard Mentor

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    Part of me agrees with this.
    OTOH, he took 1 starter (Nurk) and 1 rotation player (Ant), and won 3 games in a row.

    Management couldn't have that, so they shut both of them down, and without any rotation players left, we've lost ever since - that's not on Billups.
     
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  5. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    sure, there might not be one, or at least not a good one. But he has been around the NBA for 25 years, so there is some reason for hope. Unless of course, as it seems sometimes, some of you guys won't be satisfied till we all agree there is no hope

    upload_2022-5-13_10-27-29.png

    nothing personal FH...just having some fun
     
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  6. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru spent money on booze broads boats wasted rest

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    Pretty obvious he wants to push the ball and allow more than just Dame to bring it up. Motion offense is also apparent.
     
  7. Tince

    Tince Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't questioning if Billups was doing different things on offense, I was questioning what part of the results were better. From the gate, our offensive rating was down, and it only got worse. Injuries in the 2nd half of the year are the likely cause of the decline, but the offense was never as good or better than it has been in the previous decade.
     
  8. Tince

    Tince Well-Known Member

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    I understand the Dame injury thing, though he said he's been dealing with it for many years (where the offense was still top 5). If we have a top 5 offense next year, I think the case can be made the "new offense" is producing equal results as the previous system. And to your point, Billups offense is going to have a healthy Dame, something we haven't seen for a few years.

    I'm doubtful our offense will be top 3 next year, but I hope I'm wrong.
     
  9. Tince

    Tince Well-Known Member

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    I took issue with the word "better" and the data doesn't back that up.

    Sophisticated is not something I worry about because that can be good or bad. I want the offense to produce as well as the last system and see the defensive results be much better. Last season, the results on offense were way worse and the defense was no better (yes, injuries contributed).
     
  10. Fairly-Hard

    Fairly-Hard Well-Known Member

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    I agree wholeheartedly with the premise of possibilities but that team would also get scouted and he will need to make adjustments.
    Not saying he can't? Just saying we have not seen it yet. I'm not down on Chauncey. Matter of fact I'm excited to see how good he can become.
     
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  11. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

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    He had half a Dame and we'd never seen Stotts's system have to deal with that... being without Dame altogether might have been a better gauge but that's not how it went down, plus even if we were healthy there was going to be a learning curve. So, I guess it's still an unknown unless you've watched a ton of basketball in your life and realize that it's just a far more sustainable brand of basketball than what we've been watching for the previous nine seasons.
     
  12. Fairly-Hard

    Fairly-Hard Well-Known Member

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    Hope in Eternal.
     
  13. Fairly-Hard

    Fairly-Hard Well-Known Member

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    The last coach wanted that as well but we have Dame and that is not who Dame is. Lets see how this all works out because what you watched this last season will not be what you see next year. I can almost guarantee that.
     
  14. Fairly-Hard

    Fairly-Hard Well-Known Member

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    Personnel as well. Even at the beginning they were running different players and trying to push defense. No more Melo.
     
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  15. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    you must not be married
     
  16. Fairly-Hard

    Fairly-Hard Well-Known Member

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    Second marriage probably two time loser.
     
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  17. Tince

    Tince Well-Known Member

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    How do we know what Dame's percentage was last year vs the year before?

    I worked for Synergy, so I'm guessing the hours I've watched basketball is in the 99th percentile based on your criteria. However, I dont' think that makes me an expert and/or unable to have serious bias, which is why I try to stay away from rating the beauty or sustainability of an offense and stick to the measurable facts.

    Want to wager the Blazers will finish better (league ranking) in offensive percentage this year than they did the last three seasons under Stotts? Should be an easy win for you if your theory is true. I'll take the other side. Deal?
     
  18. Tince

    Tince Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I think personnel is a huge factor. Not as much scheme.
     
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  19. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

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    I'll wait until we actually have a team to decide on that one. We traded away the team that Stotts had for cap room to re-sign players we already had bird rights to and a TPE that we don't have the draft capital to utilize. So if Cronin can pull a rabbit out of his hat and put a decent team around Dame, I definitely think we'll have a better offense than we did under Stotts and I know that's saying a lot.
     
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  20. Tince

    Tince Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like we're more or less on the same page.

    What we know is when you compare the offensive #'s in the 2020-21 season after the Powell trade, with the #'s in the 2021-22 before all the injuries, the offense was significantly worse. It is possible eventually we'll have a better supporting cast around Dame than we've had the last 5+ years, but given the major rebuild, that will take some time.

    I'm actually guessing Billups never has a top 3 offense in his tenure. Again, I hope I'm wrong, because I'm rooting for him to be a major improvement.
     
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