Hollinger takes isolation offenses to task

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Nikolokolus, May 6, 2010.

  1. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    WTF? HE averaged 14 ppg in the preseason -- BEFORE that comment. Then he averaged 11, including your 15 in his last 7.

    It's justified...and those ostriches that keep saying "Nate's well-respected Nationally, stfu haters" aren't paying attention when people like Hollinger, Barkley, Thorpe, etc. talk about our team. I don't hate Nate. I hate his concept of what our offense is and what "winning" basketball is...
     
  2. Pinwheel1

    Pinwheel1 Well-Known Member

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    Nate likes to exloit mis-matches. Which is logical. Running an ISO is fine as long as you have more than one player on the floor who can do it so they can't double and even tripple the guy.

    One of the announcers said Portland has no jump shooters other than Roy (Who at the time was not playing). This is true. We have set shooters. Phoenix has at least two in Nash and Richardson. We need one other guy who can take their man off the dribble. Nothing we have not discussed in length over the years. The ISO would not be a problem for Atlanta either if Roy and Johnson were on the same team. (Or if Johnson was on our team)

    Give me one other guy other than Roy who can you can isolate, and two of our set shooters, and one of our Centers, and we are fine.
     
  3. RoyToy

    RoyToy Clown Town

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    He stayed out of foul trouble in the preseason, and um, it was preseason. Preseason pretty much means nothing.

    What's justified is him averaging 15pts/G in his last 7 games. Obviously what they were doing with Greg was working.
     
  4. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    yeah, they took him from an average of 15ppg to an average of 11, but only after padding the stats with a good stretch at the end. Let's check this out...# of shots. He went 8, 11, 6, 8, 13 in those (that 4-13 at the end was his worst of the season). In his last ten games he averaged 7 shots a game. The entire season he averaged 7.2.

    What exactly were they doing? And how was it working any more than before Nate said "we don't want to focus on his offense" and limited him to 11 shots in the first 3 games after that?
     
  5. RoyToy

    RoyToy Clown Town

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    "They took him from an average of 15ppg to an average of 11"

    Preseason stats are pointless.

    Padding his stats? Lol, I think he was just getting started and we were going to see more of it. I wouldn't call it padding his stats.

    In his last 10 games he was actually averaging 8.3 shots per game, not 7. You're using the Hou game to skew the average, a game he played 4min in. So 8.3 is more than his 7.2 avg for the season.

    First game of the season Oden had 7 turnovers and committed 5 fouls. Nate's fault??????

    Second and third game he only played 21min each because of foul trouble. I don't see why McMillan should focus the offense around a guy that can't stay on the floor, espepcially when you have options like Aldridge and Roy.
     
  6. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    HOw many games again did he foul out of? One. He can't stay on the floor b/c most players don't say "eff you coach, I"m not coming out".

    Bring up opening night. What magical adjustments did Nate make to his offense so that Oden only had 13 in his next 10 games?

    Of course you don't see why you should focus the offense on Oden. That's fine. Hollinger's explaining it to you. Just read him, if you don't trust us. But I think you'll have a harder time just saying "NATE H8TER" to Hollinger to prove your viewpoint.
     
  7. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    ANd before it gets to this point, let me just say that I believe the Nate can make adjustments after 20 games. He did eventually overcome his idiocy about starting Blake, and then continuing to start Blake after he was beaten out by Miller by shifting his best player out of position and making our worst shooter our de facto shooting guard. Maybe he turned a corner on Greg's usage and called for him to get more shots in the offense...but wait.

    A rudimentary stat I liked to look at in Greg's offensive development went like this: Shots minus offensive rebounds. Sure, it's not perfect. Sometimes he'd grab an offensive board and travel. Or pass it out. Or fall out of bounds or something. Or get fouled. But it's kind of a good look at how many shots Greg's getting in the offense, and how many he's getting b/c he gets a miss and tips it in. Raw numbers...

    -1 (more o-reb than shots)
    0
    1
    3
    3
    7
    6
    7
    8
    5
    3
    5
    4
    7
    6
    6
    6
    4
    1
    2 (yes, in the game he got 13 shots--highest all year--he did so b/c he got 11 offensive rebounds. Not b/c Nate decided to feed him the ball on the block)
    Over the course of 21 games it he took 88 more shots than offensive rebounds...about 4 per game. 4 shots he didn't create for himself per GAME. That goes right along with Nate's speech Oct. 26. He wants him rebounding and playing D.
    Oh yeah, and that whole "he got 15 ppg his last 7 games"? Look at the stats. He never got more than a +7, and averaged a +4.5...right along with his +4.4 for the year. No...he didn't all of a sudden become a bigger part of the offense.
     
  8. RoyToy

    RoyToy Clown Town

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    I don't put much stock into what you just said because an offensive rebound does not = 1 shot, it equals an offensive rebound that may or may not result in a shot attempt. You also don't point out he also had 8 FTA attempts to go with his 13 FGA attempts in that Miami game. That's a lot of work right there with the ball in his hands.

    If you want to keep ignoring the basic fact that he averaged 15pts in his last 7 games and 8 shot attempts the whole month of November, whatever. He was playing the best ball of his career and was coming along great yet it's still someone's fault he wasn't averaging 20pts/G.
     
  9. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    So, lost in all of your pointing to 7 games that may or may not have been big...do you think Hollinger's right about Nate's offense sucking in the Playoffs (and not just b/c of injuries, since it happened last year in HOU and to ATL two years in a row)?
     
  10. RoyToy

    RoyToy Clown Town

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    I didn't read the Hollinger piece, just saw someone post that McMillan didn't know what he was doing with Oden, ignoring the fact that Oden was playing the best ball of his career before he got injured.
     
  11. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    Well, it was probably b/c of this exchange...(paraphrased)

    "Our offense would be great with a healthy center"
    "Uh, when we had a healthy center Nate didn't want to use him as part of it. Don't believe me, here's the quote"
    "bwahaha"
    (then you came in)
     
  12. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    Would it stand to reason, then, that maybe if Nate had had an inkling to use him as part of the offense, he'd have worked him into the offense in the preseason that doesn't count, or the first 14 games of the season? Point still stands...
     
  13. RoyToy

    RoyToy Clown Town

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    Hard to work in a guy that doesn't stay on the floor and at times only plays 2-3 minutes a quarter.

    If Oden was consistent at staying on the floor and averaged 30 or more minutes a game, I'd have a problem. But his minutes and playing time are so inconsistent that I can't fault Nate much in Oden's perceived lack of shot attempts. Overall the level that Oden was starting to play at was exciting, so I find it hard to start throwing blame out.

    As far as Hollinger's iso-heavy offense and playoff success, it's probably apart of why the Hawks and Blazers lost, but there are certainly other factors as well. I think it's a tad unfair to to tie all of the lack of success to iso-heavy offenses. In the end the teams with the best rosters win in the NBA. The Celtics offense is as boring as it can get and they've been a top 5-10 team in the NBA the past 3 years. Doc Rivers always seems to be getting criticized for something. They still won a championship, and they're still really competitive.
     
  14. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

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    He's not tying all of the lack of success to just the offenses, he's pointing out what was each team's overwhelming strength in the regular season has been mostly neutered or countered in the playoffs through 31 game in the last two years. It's about those supposedly top tier regular season offenses (by efficiency) turning into mediocre piles of mush when faced with a team that has lots of time to prepare for it; that's what his analysis is getting at ... at least tentatively, he concedes that his hypothesis may need some more data to evaluate it completely.
     
  15. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    That's the part that confuses me a bit...why is he restricting his sample to the Blazers and Hawks of the past two seasons in evaluating his theory? Is he contending that the Blazers and Hawks of the past two seasons are the only ISO-heavy offensives in post-season history?
     
  16. blazerboy30

    blazerboy30 Well-Known Member

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    And what does that prove? This only says that Oden was playing better this time with Nate as his coach than last time with Nate as his coach. It does nothing to suggest that Nate was using him as well as another coach might have.
     
  17. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

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    I don't know why he's restricting it ... that said, can you think of a really successful iso heavy team in the past decade or so? (that's not a rhetorical question btw).
     
  18. jlprk

    jlprk The ESPN mod is insane.

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    So Pritchard hasn't brought in such great players after all. I think both he and McMillan are limited. Each has positives and negatives, but after adding them together, each is merely average at his job.
     
  19. blazerboy30

    blazerboy30 Well-Known Member

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    Which GM's in the NBA are doing a better job than KP?
     
  20. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    Presti, of course. He thought Durant would be better than Oden.
     

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