Homosexuals in the NBA

Discussion in 'NBA General' started by Rudeezy, Jun 11, 2004.

  1. 30 standing ver

    30 standing ver JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Einitials:</div><div class="quote_post">I think he is talking about the biblical view of how mankind to came be and the story of Lots and his daughters. Personally, I don't see anything with incest.</div>

    [​IMG][​IMG] Am I reading that right. The thing that comes to mind is "Jerry, Jerry, Jerry."
     
  2. 30 standing ver

    30 standing ver JBB JustBBall Member

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    I don't know if this has been posted and answered yet but I just thought about this. Has any nba player come out and say he was gay in the whole history of the league?
     
  3. McGrady#1

    McGrady#1 JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting 30 standing ver:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't know if this has been posted and answered yet but I just thought about this. Has any nba player come out and say he was gay in the whole history of the league?</div>

    not that i am aware of... but who knows?
     
  4. Milweskee

    Milweskee JBB JustBBall Member

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    Why is sexual preference such a defining characteristic of what makes a person who they are? There's no reason for a gay peron to say they are gay. That's their own business. I don't feel the need to announce to the world that I am straight. My sexual preference doesn't dictate who I am. If a person that prefers partners of the same sex, I don't care, nor should anyone else. This isn't a fashion show.
     
  5. unbeliever

    unbeliever JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting McGrady#1:</div><div class="quote_post">Mormons are not christians.

    Having Morals set by you doesn't mean anything.
    God has created you to live by HIS morals and guidelines, a life centered around him. I don't think many understand, that life is NOT all about us, its all about GOD. being "spiritual" in the sense you have put it means your life is centered around you and therefore a selfish life.
    the sooner you understand, the sooner you'll realise that the life you are living now ultimately has no purpose.
    I know this sounds harsh, but it is the way it is and there is no point beating around the bush.</div>

    They believe that Jesus Christ is the savior and son of God. How is that not Christian exactly? Mormons get a bad rap because they didn't do their song and dance until after breaking away from the main church was unpopular again. The LDS church is just a different sect of Christianity, much like being a lutheran, baptist, catholic, presbyterian, pentacostal, etc. The only difference is they formed their sect much later than those I just listed.

    Anyway, I don't think you have a right to call my beliefs and lifestyle selfish when you don't even know me. Non-christian does not equate to immoral, no matter how much you want to believe that it does. The whole basis of my belief system is that of social and personal responsiblity. That is, being responsible for my own actions and aware of how they impact people around me. But I guess since I don't use the same labels for my moral guidelines and the divine power, I'm just a godless heathen destined for hell and damnation.

    Oh well, I'll take my chances. [​IMG]
     
  6. McGrady#1

    McGrady#1 JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting unbeliever:</div><div class="quote_post">They believe that Jesus Christ is the savior and son of God. How is that not Christian exactly? Mormons get a bad rap because they didn't do their song and dance until after breaking away from the main church was unpopular again. The LDS church is just a different sect of Christianity, much like being a lutheran, baptist, catholic, presbyterian, pentacostal, etc. The only difference is they formed their sect much later than those I just listed.</div>

    Mormons would lead you to believe they are another dinomination of christianity, when in fact they aren't. Not being an expert on the topic i can't offer many reasons, but i believe one is the belief that they can earn their way to heaven based on works and conversions. This means they haven't full accepted God's grace and the do not believe by Jesus death alone they can be saved. They believe between their own works and his fdeath they can earn it. this is a major division between mormonism and christianity.
    If you would like i can get some more information on this so we can have a more knowledgable discussion.

    Where some catholics are christian, and others are not, this is also a bit of a grey area. Some of their beliefs go against that of other dinominations. Such as the fact that they believe Mary is the Mother of God, and she is somehow Holy/divine and deserving of praise. This is not the case, she was only a means for jesus birth, she played the role of child bearing, but she was nothing more than a pregnant lady.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Anyway, I don't think you have a right to call my beliefs and lifestyle selfish when you don't even know me. Non-christian does not equate to immoral, no matter how much you want to believe that it does. The whole basis of my belief system is that of social and personal responsiblity. That is, being responsible for my own actions and aware of how they impact people around me. But I guess since I don't use the same labels for my moral guidelines and the divine power, I'm just a godless heathen destined for hell and damnation.

    Oh well, I'll take my chances. [​IMG]</div>

    i didn't say that all non-christians are immoral. but you need to understand that there are different types of morality. The morality you are referring to is a being moral in a worldly sense, shuch as abiding the law, being generous etc. The morality i am referring to is Godly morality, living by Gos guidlines ( the 10 commandments) and his word (the bible)

    perhaps i was harsh and jumping to conclusions accusing you of being selfish, but the truth of the matter is, everyone is selfish, including christians. that is definately one reason why we sin and chase after our own desires, such as money and pleasure. to be truely unselfish in God's eyes, its to be totally focused on Him and doing his will, which is to serve him and to serve others (there are a few other aspects but i won't go into those)

    I am not trying to be offensive and i appologise if i have been. Sometimes the bible can appear offensive if you don't understand or refuse to accept it, and there is no point in leaving out the potentially offensive parts as they are just important, you can't leave people with only half the story.

    In actually fact, i was once of the same mind as you, until i came to know Jesus in a real way, and that has changed my life forever. I will being praying for you, and all the others on this forum, in the hope God will stir up a deep desire to know more.


    PS:
    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">But I guess since I don't use the same labels for my moral guidelines and the divine power, I'm just a godless heathen destined for hell and damnation.</div>

    you aren't devine, neither am i. God (which is 3 parts God, Jesus and Holyspirit) is the only divine being.
     
  7. $actown Dyme

    $actown Dyme JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting cubanballer:</div><div class="quote_post">How can the procreation issue be the proof that homosexuality is wrong? Lesbian and unmarried women can have children. People don't have to be married to raise them. We won't become extinct any time soon because of homosexuality. Just admit that is a prejudice and that's fine, everybody is entited to have them. I have some too.</div>


    I don't care how much I have to keep on saying this. Not accepting homosexuality IS NOT prejudice. I don't accept it because it's a wrong lifestyle to lead. Do I accept them as people, yes, but not their sexual perference.


    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Ice:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah theres way too much I don't understand. It's impossible for someone to come back from the dead. And apparently since god/jesus are the same thing - that also seems impossible.</div>

    Nothing's impossible for God. Not a damn thing.
    And another thing, I think you got it twisted. God and Jesus aren't the same thing exactly, They're just equal. They're not the same person. God is the Father and Jesus is the Son. If you say God, you can be referring to either of them, but if you specificially say Jesus then you're referring to the Son. Hope that clears things up.


    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Anyways, theres too much that seems messed up, and I'm cool with my life the way it is. I don't own a bible nor feel like I need one, and I live a great life. If god won't accept me for who I am - enjoying the night life parties, etc. then thats his problem. His loss - I'd make heaven a very interesting place.</div>


    I don't see how it's His loss. He gives you an opportunity to be with Him in Paradise, the only thing He asks of you is to live by His word. After He gave His only Son to die for our sins, that's not too much to ask for. If you don't accept Jesus as your saviour and God as your Creator then you go to hell. Again, I don't see how it's His loss.



    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Enitials:</div><div class="quote_post">Personally, I don't see anything bad with incest.</div>

    Are you dead serious? Before I go any further, please explain to me why.



    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting CourtVision:</div><div class="quote_post">Are you going to hell because you masturbate and have sex on a regular basis before you got married? It's against what the bible says but yet you do it anyways. What about if you cheated on your girlfriend? Are you going to hell?</div>


    If you ask for forgiveness and really mean what you say, no.


    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">After all he used to be human himself.</div>

    A sinless human that is.


    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting KS1:</div><div class="quote_post">Funny thing though, aren't a lot of WNBA players Lesbians? And they're accepted, well to my knowledge, they're accepted, I haven't seen any controversey regarding them. But maybe people dont care, since its the WNBA, but its interesting.</div>


    Yeah, it's a double standard. It's just like how some guys think seeing lesbians make out is "sexy" but when it comes to two guys it's not.
     
  8. notmuchgame

    notmuchgame JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Ice:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah theres way too much I don't understand. It's impossible for someone to come back from the dead. And apparently since god/jesus are the same thing - that also seems impossible. (I'm just giving my opinion on the situation, no need for a reply)
    </div>

    That's why religion is often referred to as "faith." It can be difficult for non-believers and skeptics to understand, but some things you just feel in your heart are true, even if conventional "logic" says it's impossible.

    I personally believe my faith in God will one day be rewarded. But I also understand not everyone shares the same beliefs as myself. There is a lot of arguing in this thread, but really this is a subject that can't be debated. It is almost impossible to argue for or against faith. Like I said earlier, faith often defies logic, and without logic there cannot be a debate.

    I've learned that rather then rediculing ppl and damning them to hell, its best to allow people to do what they want and hopefully they will find their own way to God



    As far as homosexuals in sports, several former NFL players have come out of the closet...In addition, there is supposedly a well-known MLB player that is homosexual. The sports writer who had a relationship with him says that he plays for an East team, and that he's a well known player, but the writer wouldn't reveal the players name because of the redicule that will occur in the locker room.... (Mike Piazza says it's not him [​IMG] )

    The Japanese player from the Indians is a homosexual (or bi at the least)...A gay video of him surfaced a few months ago..
     
  9. 30 standing ver

    30 standing ver JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Enitials:</div><div class="quote_post">Personally, I don't see anything bad with incest.</div>

    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting sactown_dyme:</div><div class="quote_post">Are you dead serious? Before I go any further, please explain to me why.</div>

    When I read that last night it said I don't see anything with incest. So I figure he was referring to who he quoted before and read the other members post and didn't see anything having to do with incest. I see he reedited after I posted below him and now it doesn't look right. I'm sure he didn't mean it to come out that way I hope. But if he did all I can think about right now is Jerry, Jerry, Jerry.
     
  10. cubanballer

    cubanballer JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting sactown_dyme:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't care how much I have to keep on saying this. Not accepting homosexuality IS NOT prejudice. I don't accept it because it's a wrong lifestyle to lead. Do I accept them as people, yes, but not their sexual perference.</div>

    "Prejudice: a negative attitude toward a group or its members that is considered unjustified by an observer because of: faulty reasoning, based on stereotype, overgeneralized, too rigid and inflexible, based on factually incorrect beliefs and leads to unfair treatment."

    What does "accept" means? It's simply "it's not for me" or it is "it's wrong and they should not do it". One is a personal belief, the other is a judgement. I don't accept wife swapping for example, but that doesn't mean that if I know of someone who does, I'm going to protest against their right to adopt children. I'm sure wife swapping it's not condoned in the Bible either (maybe I'm wrong).

    Don't confuse prejudice with discrimination. Discrimination comes from being in a position of power - if you don't like gays you are prejudiced, if you actively use your power to prevent gay people do something, you are discriminating. I for example, have a prejudice against fundamentalist, preachy, proselitizing religious people, can't stand them. Don't have a problem admitting that. But if someone like that wants a job at my company and I don't hire them because he/she is a bible thumper, then I'm discriminating.

    It's too convenient to try to separate people from their sexual preferences on one hand and on the other deny them the right to visit a loved one if he's in a hospital, for example. Prejudiced people cheer on while the discriminators do their work. And nothing is sadder that people that have experienced discrimination doing the same thing to others.
     
  11. cubanballer

    cubanballer JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Milweskee:</div><div class="quote_post">Why is sexual preference such a defining characteristic of what makes a person who they are? There's no reason for a gay peron to say they are gay. That's their own business. I don't feel the need to announce to the world that I am straight. My sexual preference doesn't dictate who I am. If a person that prefers partners of the same sex, I don't care, nor should anyone else. This isn't a fashion show.</div>

    There's no reason for them NOT TO SAY IT either, if it weren't for the fact that some people won't accept it. You don't say "I sleep with women" in public, but you do have a girlfriend right? Can hold her hand, give her a kiss in public, get married, have children, etc. Gay players can't do that without people saying: "keep it in the bedroom". I've never met a gay person that wants to have sex in public. What do we want them to keep on hiding?

    It's not gay people who have to change. It's the rest of us.
     
  12. KS1

    KS1 JBB JustBBall Member

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    Guys and girls, we're not discussing the meaning of life, god or Jesus, or our own beliefs of religion, we're talking about is there possible homosexuals in the NBA and will we accept them or not.

    I can accept them, I dont really care for what they like or do. Most gay guys are really nice people, it doesn't matter. KG is my favorite player, if he camed out and say he was gay then oh well, I still think he's an awesome player.

    But the fact is, nobody who wants to make money and keep playing is going to come out and say they're gay. Because the majority of people wont accept it.


    But this is going to pass, like racisim, its going to pass slowly, racisim is still here, but it isn't at large any more.
     
  13. Emo

    Emo Active Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting cubanballer:</div><div class="quote_post">"Prejudice: a negative attitude toward a group or its members that is considered unjustified by an observer because of: faulty reasoning, based on stereotype, overgeneralized, too rigid and inflexible, based on factually incorrect beliefs and leads to unfair treatment."</div>

    Nice definition, but you really have to think about using words appropriately when you use a word like that and especially if you're going to go out of your way and wrongly accuse someone of that. I'm right with my sister on what she's saying. Homosexuality is wrong and I don't accept their lifestyles either. I'd pray for them that they'd turn their lives around, if I knew them personally, but if they're willing to not change their ways, then they answer to the one that got them here on this earth. I guess I also "hate" gay people too right? Unbelieveable choice of words. [​IMG]

    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting cubanballer:</div><div class="quote_post">I for example, have a prejudice against fundamentalist, preachy, proselitizing religious people, can't stand them. Don't have a problem admitting that. But if someone like that wants a job at my company and I don't hire them because he/she is a bible thumper, then I'm discriminating.</div>

    Ok so you're discriminating against my sister because she's preaching the truth about her religion and you're quick to tell her off just because of what she believes in, and what she thinks is wrong? That's insulting.


    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting cubanballer:</div><div class="quote_post">It's too convenient to try to separate people from their sexual preferences on one hand and on the other deny them the right to visit a loved one if he's in a hospital, for example. Prejudiced people cheer on while the discriminators do their work. And nothing is sadder that people that have experienced discrimination doing the same thing to others.</div>

    Who says we're trying to separate their sexual preference? That's by their own choosing whether or not they choose to be gay. They have a choice whether or not they choose to be with a man or a woman. And I really don't understand your logic of people experiencing discrimination that by your example do the same towards homosexuals. Believe me, you have no idea.
     
  14. vinsanity03

    vinsanity03 JBB JustBBall Member

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    what a *** thread. your gay rudeezy whats the point of this
     
  15. bball guru

    bball guru JBB JustBBall Member

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    I hear McGrady makes some pretty homosexual comments and his playing sometimes is rather gay.

    also, this thread is full of gay comments
     
  16. 30 standing ver

    30 standing ver JBB JustBBall Member

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    ^Huh? I can't tell if that's just sarcasm are not. He's married I think, but I know he has a child. But you still can be gay though. My uncle has alot of children but he still pretty feminine as well. So as one of my old baseball coaches. Married but he's so touchy feely kinda guy.

    Anyways, Ppl who keep on preaching everytime of the day is pretty friggin annoying though. I guess I just don't have good experiences with religous ppl so far. Like at my local park these 2 religous guys come in and are ok before we started to play. Then the game started and one of those guys bitched on every single play on both ends of the court. Man, he didn't curse but homeboy complains everytime we play with em.

    Then one other guy just starts cursing em out. Then dude says Jesus still loves you and the whole gym got quit. Aw, I don't blame the guy for cursing him out cause they're but mostly that one guy is annoying like a mug. Using that Jesus thing just threw everybody off. There's no way to respond to that when you're still angry.
     
  17. bball guru

    bball guru JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Milweskee:</div><div class="quote_post">Why is sexual preference such a defining characteristic of what makes a person who they are? There's no reason for a gay peron to say they are gay. That's their own business. I don't feel the need to announce to the world that I am straight. My sexual preference doesn't dictate who I am. If a person that prefers partners of the same sex, I don't care, nor should anyone else. This isn't a fashion show.</div>


    wonderful way of thinking. Please pass it onto your friends and people around the world. There are few people like you!
     
  18. cubanballer

    cubanballer JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Emo:</div><div class="quote_post">Nice definition, but you really have to think about using words appropriately when you use a word like that and especially if you're going to go out of your way and wrongly accuse someone of that. I'm right with my sister on what she's saying. Homosexuality is wrong and I don't accept their lifestyles either. I'd pray for them that they'd turn their lives around, if I knew them personally, but if they're willing to not change their ways, then they answer to the one that got them here on this earth. I guess I also "hate" gay people too right? Unbelieveable choice of words. [​IMG]

    Ok so you're discriminating against my sister because she's preaching the truth about her religion and you're quick to tell her off just because of what she believes in, and what she thinks is wrong? That's insulting.

    Who says we're trying to separate their sexual preference? That's by their own choosing whether or not they choose to be gay. They have a choice whether or not they choose to be with a man or a woman. And I really don't understand your logic of people experiencing discrimination that by your example do the same towards homosexuals. Believe me, you have no idea.</div>

    Your points, one by one:

    1. Exactly which word I didn't use appropriately? Read the definition again. Of course, none of us would like to think we are prejudiced. It's a strong word. But to me, you and your sister and many others in this tread have a prejudiced attitude against gays. I don't claim to be right, I leave that to the fundamentalists.

    2. I'm not discriminating against your sister, I just don't agree with her views (but I approve that she's strong in her beliefs, that's what makes for a good debate). Again, read my post. I have no power to do anything against her, so I can't discriminate.

    3. When your sister (and others) says "I accept them as people but their lifestyle is wrong" she's trying to separate the two, so that in their minds they feel "accepting" of the person. But a gay person is the whole, just like a straight person is. I'm defined among other things by being a married man, and I'll feel offended if you told me not to talk about the fact that I'm married to my wife, or not to wear my wedding ring. But you guys don't think twice about asking the same thing to a gay person - stay in the closet, cut out the stickers and the parades. Clear enough now?

    And by the way, I'm Hispanic. I have a pretty good idea of how it feels to be discriminated against, so don't go there. It'll be very hypocritical of me to do unto others what I don't like done unto me.
     
  19. McGrady#1

    McGrady#1 JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting cubanballer:</div><div class="quote_post">
    3. When your sister (and others) says "I accept them as people but their lifestyle is wrong" she's trying to separate the two, so that in their minds they feel "accepting" of the person. But a gay person is the whole, just like a straight person is. I'm defined among other things by being a married man, and I'll feel offended if you told me not to talk about the fact that I'm married to my wife, or not to wear my wedding ring. But you guys don't think twice about asking the same thing to a gay person - stay in the closet, cut out the stickers and the parades. Clear enough now?</div>

    perhaps it wasn't put out the best way.
    from my point of view:
    I accept the fact that this person may struggle with homosexuality. I will still be friends with them and treat them as any other. If they have come to the understanding that their lefestyle is not what God wants, then i will do what i can to help turn them around. Obviously if they don't want to change, all you can do is try expalaining why its wrong.
    I believe it is the same for, say an alcoholic. They like to keep it close to their chest, but it would bebetter for them to make it known to their friends, so they can recieve help (ie no temations to be left around etc). i would still treat them as any other, but again i'd do my best to help them get off the booz.

    in a better world, we'd all be totally honest with each other, while things may seem a bit harsh, they'd turn out better in the long term.
    The reason why homosexuals keep it to the selves is because its only really become big in the past 2 decades (obviously it was around earier but it has grown immensly) and therefore most people are NOT accepting, and possibly feel threatened or somehting.
    i think it is a personal choice for homosexuals to be public or not, and as i said it would be dependant on if they wanted help or not. maybe only telling those closest who can help, there is probably no point telling the world about it.
     
  20. McGrady#1

    McGrady#1 JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting BBall Guru:</div><div class="quote_post">I hear McGrady makes some pretty homosexual comments and his playing sometimes is rather gay.

    also, this thread is full of gay comments</div>

    that was a pretty gay comment, maybe your gay?


    no? see how did you like it?

    don't go making accusations you can't validate.

    Also just because i don't make comments you don't like, doesn't mean you should attack my favourite player.
     

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