Houston to aggressively pursue Asik(Came to agreement)

Discussion in 'Chicago Bulls' started by truebluefan, Jun 29, 2012.

  1. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    That's funny Good Hope!

    I figure he's a solid backup and situational player. At $5M, he's probably worth it. At $15M, he'll no! Though that's only for one season, and maybe there's some cap wrangling to make it OK.

    On the other hand, we've seen a slew of aged vet PF/C types who can do the backup minutes role for cheap.
     
  2. transplant

    transplant Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Random thoughts:

    - I watched several of Asik's games in the Worlds just before he came to the Bulls. Based on what I saw (had a decent jump-hook), I thought he'd be a better scorer in the NBA. He doesn't even try to shoot.

    - As I recall, Asik once had a Euro season where he made less than 30% of his FTs. He's at 48% in the NBA. Progress?

    - Haugh's wrong if he's talking about this season. The only difference is whether they have the full MLE or the mini-MLE, and since they've already spent $3mil of MLE money on Hinrich, they'd only have $2mil left if they don't match Asik.
     
  3. such sweet thunder

    such sweet thunder Member Staff Member Moderator

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    I think you only get one exception Transplant, as in, the Bulls can only sign one player with the MLE. As to the rest of this thread, the simplest explanation for retaining Asik is as follows.

    In the current state of the league, and this is especially true if Thibodeau is your coach, the three most important positions on defense are your two bigs and point guard. If the Bulls can limit dribble penetration and field two mobile rotating bigs then they're guaranteed a fifty win (third seed) type season. The rest is gravy.

    An Asik signing goes a long way in guaranteeing that the Bulls will remain a contender, albeit a contender on the outside looking in. It kind of puts us back in the holding pattern, with the team looking to upgrade at shooting guard.
     
  4. truebluefan

    truebluefan Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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  5. transplant

    transplant Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Not true. You can break up the MLE. According to Larry Coon, "This exception may be split and given to multiple players."

    Link
    I agree with the first part. As for the "outside looking in" thing, I disagree. With a healthy Rose come playoff time, the Bulls aren't on the outside of anything. Is a healthy Rose a sure thing? No. Is an unhealthy Rose a sure thing? No.
     
  6. Good Hope

    Good Hope Active Member

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    Think he meant mmle. As in Mademoiselle!
     
  7. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    From reading the CBA FAQ, it sure seems like the Bulls would have the full $5M MLE, since they didn't pay LT last year (or since MJ left). Yet Doug Thonus wrote, on July 8:

    http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-b...ulls-sign-hinrich-to-mmle-watson-likely-gone/

    The Chicago Bulls have come to terms with Kirk Hinrich. The deal is for two years at the taxpayer MLE meaning the Bulls won't be restricted by the hard cap. The rest of the Bulls off-season should now come into focus.

    What does using the MMLE on Hinrich mean?

    For starters it means we can't use it on anyone else. The MMLE was the Bulls only exception if they go over the tax apron. This means that the Bulls will be restricted to sign and trade moves and the veteran minimum for the rest of the off-season. If the Bulls had kept C.J. Watson [200k more this year, but one less year], then the they could have used the MMLE to add someone else while still filling their PG hole with Watson.

    That said, it also means the Bulls are setting themselves up to pay luxury tax dollars and potentially significant luxury tax dollars. The use of the MMLE means Chicago wants to keep the flexibility to go over the 74 million dollar tax apron rather than being hard capped at that amount.

    It certainly isn't an all in scenario like keeping Watson, Korver, and using the MMLE on a wing would be, but it still does show considerable financial commitment which is nice to see.
     
  8. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    ^^^ I would point out that arguing over whether to dip slightly into the LT to pay Kirk vs. CJ isn't a debate about a basketball that will make much of a difference in how next season ends for us.
     
  9. such sweet thunder

    such sweet thunder Member Staff Member Moderator

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    I think it's too late for that. The best opportunity to retool was on draft night, when they could have shipped Deng. I'm happy if the Bulls decided to spend boatloads or if the Bulls decide to retool -- it's the in between that worries me.
     
  10. transplant

    transplant Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    FWIW, the MMLE can also be split (same link as above).
     
  11. Good Hope

    Good Hope Active Member

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    ^^IWAL, Thanks!
     
  12. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    There's little point in splitting the mmle. Split two ways (in half), it's barely above vet minimum. And surely Kirk use all or most of it.
     
  13. Good Hope

    Good Hope Active Member

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    I didn't remember you being sold on paying the man. Just food for the grist mill.
     
  14. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    What I would do and what GarPaxDorf do aren't the same thing...

    They chose between Taj and Omer. I would have kept Omer, CJ, and Korver (or Brewer) instead of Kirk, Belinelli, and Nazr.

    I also would rather profit $40M and go into LT for $20M than profit by $60M. It's the difference between giving the suckers who buy tickets a show that's good enough vs. the best show I can. Like the Lakers have all along.
     
  15. FatJerry

    FatJerry Member

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    [="Bob Sugar"] Its not show friends its show business are you in or out? [/end"Bob Sugar"]

    Everyone pontificating about the preposterous purse presented to Asik was pulling their pud ( Try saying that when you are drunk )

    I always said Taj and Omer was a choice and we elected to go with Taj over Omer and are now scrambling around for a green 4th or a guy that has to be carbon dated to reveal what age he really is

    And we'll have $11M tied up in Taj/Naz and Vlad ....or ....we could have saved salary space of $6M in 2 seasons and paid $4M in season 3 , when we had the opportunity to take Luol down $5M ( he should only be around $8M in a re-write after nxt season ) and before he have to up JIMSANITY ( yes that's my word and I will persecute anyone using it without prior authorisation )

    Omer was the one that got away, and as it turns out , JOMER could have held its own offensively with Jo at the 4

    There was no reason why our core 3 man rotation over the next 2 seasons could not have been Jo/Boozer/Noah with Withey or Dieng getting picked up as a green project

    Mirotic is likely 3 years anyway at the end of Boozer's contract , at which time , your new core 3 is Noah/Mirotic/Asik

    When it comes down to it - Asik's core worth is probably $8M low and $10M high . So what if you have to pay him $15M for 1 season - he is a legitimate starting Center in this league , and , with our own organic improvement and role player switches that were all correct ( except in losing Asik ) with the pick up of a volume wing shooter in Redick who can handle and hustle defend I reckon the East would be ours and we''ll rue letting Asik go to instead invest our money in Taj while we're wringing our hands trying to figure out how to defend penetration of the Clips or the Thunder or their big man studs when we're keep knocking up against them playing for rings

    Major pooch screw with what happened to Omer but zero problem with Korver, Brewer and the Turd moving on

    Now had we have kept Asik and traded Rip and a pick for Redick and signed Malcolm Thomas to a deal instead of Radmanovic and then moved Naz Mo for Jermaine O'Neal at the deadline



    Noah
    Boozer
    Deng
    Redick ( for Rip and our 2013 1st round pick at the deadline )
    Rose

    bench

    Asik
    M.Thomas
    Butler
    Bellinelli
    Hinrich

    O'Neil
    Robinson
    Teague



    I mean c'mon GTFO ...that team wins the East and we havent triggered the apron and hence no repeater tax

    And then , fast foward to next summer and beyond on the assumption we can shave $5M per off Lu's current cost and go long on a 5 year deal and retain JJ at MLE type money - that won't matter when we're having to pay Omer $15M and Kirk is gonski


    Joakim
    Mirotic ( who becomes our volume shooter as a stretch 4 instead of at the 2 )
    Deng
    Butler ( on the assumption he gets a bit more arc on his shot and becomes a genuine starter within 2 seasons )
    Rose

    bench

    Asik
    2014 Draft Pick / Vet minimum Free Agent
    2015 Draft Pick / 2015 Bobcats Lottery Pick
    Redick
    Teague



    That team is still stacked with the addition of two lottery talents in Mirotic and the Bobs pick as well as relying on the organic improvement of Teague as a back up under Thibs Coaching direction

    Defensively ....this team is as scary as all hell and can legitimately slow the Clips and Thunder dowm , and , has enough secondary volume shooting options in addition to highly efficient usage/ system guys to make our offense work ok . But it will still be mainly a defensive team / identity

    Which is the Chicago way ...

    Oh Omer my Omer I will always be your Homer
    And carry my boner
    And until all the blood leaves my other head
    And I pass out in a coma
     
  16. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Missed you posting, FJ. Don't be a stranger.

    Omer is starting on a team with superstars James Harden and Jeremy Lin that's 25-22, 8th seed, and 1 game ahead of 9th seed Portland. He's averaging a legit double double, but his PER is an astounding 14.4. The fact is he's starting. The question is whether he should be. His backup, 2nd year man Greg Smith, has a 17.9 PER. That 14.4 PER is good for 35th best among centers in the NBA - see http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/c.

    What I remember about last season is that at the trade deadline, the news reports were that management did not believe the team as constructed was a championship team. There were rumors the Bulls might trade Boozer, Deng, and Asik for Garnett and Pierce. Or that Pau Gasol would be a Bull if only the Lakers would take Boozer instead of their asking price of Deng and Rip.

    Now if they weren't believers in how last year's team was constructed, they surely can't believe the replacements for Asik, Korver, CJ, and Brewer.

    Nazr puts us over the top! We won't miss Asik.

    For Good Hope...

    I think my post was clear that I didn't think Asik was worth $15M per season, but for one season we could make something work. I suggested what management would do is sell us on the aged veteran thing. The roster has historically had the aging vet PF/C types on it - remember PJ Brown?
     
  17. Good Hope

    Good Hope Active Member

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    Quoted for brilliance.

    Sure, they made their choice for Taj over Omer, and I don't think they would have gone wrong either way.

    I certainly wanted Omer to stay, and I've felt that Omer is the loss we've felt by far the most.

    But I would like to say that Omer's loss has had a positive effect on Jo. Omer was Jo's security blanket regarding the need to man up and take leadership of the team. With no Omer, JoNo has taken some steps to be the man in the middle for this team, and I think that will make a difference for years to come. (given good health). I suppose Derrick's absence has also played a role in this development.

    I'm happy for Omer, he's doing what he wanted, which is start, which he wouldn't have done here. I miss him, but to say we kicked him to the curb to stay under the LT has no basis. We let him go to address our "biggest" need, which was someone who could handle the point and be able to work with Derrick to reduce the pressure on him when he comes back.
     
  18. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    If Asik/Jo are the Bulls' prototypical ideal players, then why not play them both at the same time?

    Sure, Boozer needs his minutes, but he's going to be gone after the season anyway.
     
  19. Good Hope

    Good Hope Active Member

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    With Derrick Rose out, we have needed Carlos Boozer's scoring. And I don't see Carlos going anywhere. Omer and Jo was not a solution at C Pf for this year, regardless.
     
  20. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    No, not for this year.

    Next and until one or both retire.
     

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