How can we get Shawn Marion?

Discussion in 'Golden State Warriors' started by jason bourne, Sep 13, 2007.

  1. jason bourne

    jason bourne JBB JustBBall Member

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    <h3>Bordow: Marion sticky situation for Suns</h3> <h4>Scott Bordow, Tribune Columnist</h4>

    The Phoenix Suns love Shawn Marion, the basketball player. They treasure his versatility, his unselfishness and his ability to cover everyone from point guards to centers. He&rsquo;s a freak, in a good way. Read Scott Bordow's blog The Suns aren&rsquo;t thrilled, however, with Shawn Marion, the businessman, and that&rsquo;s why the Marion for Andrei Kirilenko trade rumor can&rsquo;t be summarily dismissed. The Suns don&rsquo;t want to trade Marion. They know their best chance to win a championship this season is to keep the Marion-Steve Nash-Amar&eacute; Stoudemire triumvirate together. But Marion&rsquo;s constant whining about being third in the pecking order is wearing on the Suns. They&rsquo;re tired of hearing how he&rsquo;s not respected when he&rsquo;ll make the most money on the team this season ($16.4 million), he led Phoenix in minutes played last year and took 100 more shots than Nash and 16 more than Stoudemire. Not to mention the three straight All-Star appearances, the invitation to play for the Olympic team, the Nike Air Force 25 commercial in which he gets equal billing with Kobe Bryant and LeBron James, and the cover of ESPN The Magazine. We should all be so disrespected. It&rsquo;s been suggested that the Suns want to trade Marion because they think he&rsquo;ll opt out of his contract after this season and become a free agent, leaving them empty-handed. Actually, Phoenix isn&rsquo;t worried about that at all. As good as Marion is, no team is going to give him a contract that starts at $17.8 million (his salary for the 2007-08 season). That kind of money is reserved for superstars. And for all of Marion&rsquo;s talents, he&rsquo;s a complementary player, not someone who can lead a team. But there is concern among the Suns coaching staff and front office that Marion&rsquo;s grousing will become even louder if Grant Hill gets some of his shots and publicity. Already, Marion&rsquo;s jealousy of Stoudemire threatens the chemistry in the locker room. A Slam magazine reporter recently asked Marion if he was watching Stoudemire in the FIBA Americas tournament in Las Vegas. &ldquo;Nope,&rdquo; Marion said. Then he sat there, silent, until the next question was asked. As much of a pain as Marion can be sometimes, though, trading him for Kirilenko is a bad idea. Kirilenko may be younger (26) and taller (6-foot-9 to Marion&rsquo;s 6-7), but he can&rsquo;t touch Marion as a player. Kirilenko&rsquo;s best season statistically was in 2003-04, when he averaged 16.5 points and 8.1 rebounds per game. Marion&rsquo;s numbers dipped last season because of Stoudemire&rsquo;s return, but he still averaged 17.5 points and 9.8 rebounds per contest. And if the Suns are worried about Marion&rsquo;s attitude, why would they covet Kirilenko when he whined last season about his reduced role? If he wasn&rsquo;t happy playing a supporting role to Carlos Boozer and Deron Williams, why would he be content taking a back seat to Nash, Stoudemire and Hill? A Suns source said Tuesday that while trade talks have been tabled for now, they might be reopened if Utah is willing to take on another contract, say, the $17.2 million still owed Marcus Banks. Let&rsquo;s hope the phone call is never made. Let&rsquo;s hope Marion comes to his senses and understands he&rsquo;s in the perfect situation, where his unique talents are showcased and his deficiencies hidden. Let&rsquo;s hope the Suns aren&rsquo;t so interested in dumping Banks that they weaken their team. Odds are Marion will be with the Suns when they open the season in October. But stay tuned. This story might not have a happy ending.</p>

    http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/97213<a name="http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/97213" title="http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/97213"></a> </p>
     
  2. Montaman

    Montaman JBB JustBBall Member

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    I'd rather not have Marion at all. It'd be trading strength for strength. And besides, Phoenix management is smart enough, they'd want Biedrins, and seeing as I wasn't willing to trade him for Garnett, I'm certain not for Marion.
     
  3. CohanHater

    CohanHater JBB JustBBall Member

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    I'd rather not have Marion at all. It'd be trading strength for strength. And besides, Phoenix management is smart enough, they'd want Biedrins, and seeing as I wasn't willing to trade him for Garnett, I'm certain not for Marion.</p>

    What Strength is it exactly that we'd be getting that we have? Marion is an All around player and makes everyone around him better. He fits in this system perfectly.I don't see any combination of players that Phoenix would be interested in that wouldn't be too much to dump, but Marion is probably one of the top 5 players not in Oakland suited to play with the Warriors </p>
     
  4. TucsonClip

    TucsonClip Thursday Night in Tucson = Upset

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    I dont think there is any chance the Suns would trade Marion in the west, especially to a team with a system in which he will thrive.
     
  5. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    I don't think Shawn Marion makes his teammates that much better in terms of playmaking (he's a finisher not a setup guy), but he definitely can help himself score and play some great defense. His ballhandling is not that great, but he finds it easy to get to the foul line where he converts at a high% compared to most nba forwards. He steals, blocks shots, rebounds, even posts up some, and even shots the three. The guy would have made an even better power forward if he was bigger. He's one of the best all-around athletes in the game for a great balance of quickness, strength, and athleticism and he hardly ever gets injured or worn out (knock on wood) because of his endurance.

    I do think he's overpaid though. When it comes to position players that affect the game more, I feel like the budget should be concentrated more on the center, power forward and point guard/shooting guard positions. The small forward might gain a few offensive mismatches depending on whether he wins the speed or strength mismatch, but we're talking a 6-7 player that is mostly known for his defense. If we're talking max money, I also expect this guy to be more clutch and with more unstoppable offensive power like better ballhandling and playmaking ability. I just see 12-14 mil being spent elsewhere and if we're talking forwards, put it on Lebron James. I might even say Joe Johnson is worth his current contract despite Atlanta's team record (which I think is mainly due to their lack of experience, size, good lead guard, and bench depth). It's all about the 1,2, and 4,5 positions to me or else the bigger team will just have its way with us. For a three I'd rather get a Bruce Bowen, Shane Battier, Tayshaun Prince, Josh Howard, or Corey Brewer or even what we have now with SJax. Most successful teams have defensive capability and I think the three spot is the most important to have for that role but not at the max amount of money. Otherwise, I'd be all over getting Shawn Marion because of his versatility on defense, but to me he's not worth a Baron Davis or the potential that Biedrins or a real power forward or center could have. A good balanced team with talent at the right spots + a bench can beat a team with 3-4 good palyers and no bench. Comparing the Warriors to the Suns, both Nash and Baron are the cataylsts and after that there isn't many players that make each other better. Plus, Biedrins isn't Amare yet and Sjax isn't in Marion's class quite yet when it comes to defense, but he's a better distributor and more clutch IMO. Baron isn't quite the shooter nor efficient or healthy that Nash is, but Baron is more athletic, stronger, and younger. I don't know how Monta Ellis and Leandrinho Barbosa stackup... but anyway we're not as good as the Suns and I wouldn't want to be the Suns for very long because their ball just doesn't win against big lineups that can run and play more types of defense.
     
  6. Montaman

    Montaman JBB JustBBall Member

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    What I meant by that is that we're already stacked at the guard/forward spots, but moreover, I'm positive they wouldn't give us Marion without getting Biedrins back, and that would be a bad idea.</p>
     
  7. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    The only way to acquire him would be to wait for him to opt out of his current deal and have the cap space to sign him as a free agent. I agree with TusconClip, I can't imagine Phoenix trading him to a division rival. If the Warriors acquired Marion without losing Baron any frontline players, they'd arguably be better than Phoenix.</p>

    PG - B Diddy
    SG - SJAX
    SF - Marion
    PF - Harrington
    C - Beans</p>

    Scary lineup right there.</p>
     
  8. CohanHater

    CohanHater JBB JustBBall Member

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    We're all entiled to our own opinion, but when Marion's on the court, he draws the top athlete in matchups which greatly helps out the rest of the frontcourt, and most definitely helps out the point guard. Sure, it makes it even more deadly next to Amare, but he was doing it before Amare was there and when Amare was out. As for our front court, what player on the Warriors at the 2, 3 or 4 for that matter is in the same league as Marion. The answer to that is none. The guy can flat out ball. But that's just my opinion. Agreed that Biedrins is too much to give up, but I'd love to have him on the Warriors.
     
  9. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CohanHater)</div><div class='quotemain'>We're all entiled to our own opinion, but when Marion's on the court, he draws the top athlete in matchups which greatly helps out the rest of the frontcourt, and most definitely helps out the point guard. Sure, it makes it even more deadly next to Amare, but he was doing it before Amare was there and when Amare was out. As for our front court, what player on the Warriors at the 2, 3 or 4 for that matter is in the same league as Marion. The answer to that is none. The guy can flat out ball. But that's just my opinion. Agreed that Biedrins is too much to give up, but I'd love to have him on the Warriors.</div></p>

    You're absolutely right about Marion's impact on defense. According to the stat introduced by Dean Oliver referred to as defensive stops, Marion was one of league leaders in the category. I did a search basketballreference.com on leaders in stops from 2003-2006 seasons. Marion's name appears 4 times in the top 10. Marion is also one of the more durable players, playing almost every game and logging heavy minutes. </p>

    1. Kevin Garnett 03-04 866 stops</p>

    2. Shawn Marion 05-06 841 stops</p>

    3. Ben Wallace 03-04 822 stops</p>

    4. Shawn Marion 04-05 804 stops</p>

    5. Kevin Garnett 04-05 793 stops</p>

    6. Shawn Marion 06-07 768 stops</p>

    7. Kevin Garnett 06-07 734 stops</p>

    8. Shaw Marion 03-04 732 stops</p>

    9. Ben Wallace 05-06 728 stops</p>

    10. Kevin Garnett 05-06 715 stops</p>

    </p>
     
  10. jason bourne

    jason bourne JBB JustBBall Member

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    That's a real telling stat. I knew Marion was good on defense for the Suns, but didn't know how good. I just had a hunch he would be the best individual defensive player next to KG. He's like the middle linebacker for the Suns when they go on defense. The Suns give up a lot of points but that's not the whole story. They are a very good defensive team. Just like the Warriors, they give up a lot of points because of the pace of their game and the amount of shots that are taken by both teams. However, the Warriors aren't that good defensively compared to the Suns so they give up a lot of points due to lack of D as well.

    </p>
     
  11. Silver Man

    Silver Man BBW Member

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    I think that we are fine without Marion. He is a extremly good player, but his value is to high.
     
  12. Run BJM

    Run BJM Heavy lies the crown. Staff Member Global Moderator

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Silver Man)</div><div class='quotemain'>I think that we are fine without Marion. He is a extremly good player, but his value is to high.</div>

    </p>

    Agree, Marion would be great on our team but the price tag and chronic unwarranted complaints are a big turnoff. His role would be less on our team than it was on Phoenix IMO since our PG shoots more plus Jack and Monta dominate the ball, add in Belinelli and Barnes hoisting like they're the second coming of MJ, Biedrins getting a lot of pick and roll opportunities, Al's gonna jack up his share of shots, etc. Not to mention we just drafted what we hope will be the PF of the future in Wright. </p>

    Maybe if Phoenix is really eager to give him up and we can get him for something like Al, Rooney (expiring contract), and Barnes (also expiring and a homeless man's Marion). That way we still dump a big contract, upgrade the PF spot, and Marion will be gone in 2 years so Wright can take over. We'll still have major cap issues though with Marion and Baron making max contracts and Biedrins extension, possibly Monta extension, plus all the other contracts. </p>
     
  13. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Silver Man)</div><div class='quotemain'>I think that we are fine without Marion. He is a extremly good player, but his value is to high.</div></p>

    Exactly, we don't have separate teams for defense and offense like we do in football, so I just feel that a max paid player should do it on both ends like a Kobe Bryant or a Kevin Garnett. The example of Kevin Garnett is not that he is a dominant offensive player for his position, but he is like Jason Kidd in that he makes others better with his smart playmaking and some reliable go-to moves in addition to great defense and rebounding. Plus, we should also factor in leadership ability. He's not really a leader to me. He's an all-star, but also his contract makes him look a bit like Antwan Jamison to me (as in overpaid not one-dimensional scorer), except Marion earns it more because he does a lot more on both ends of the floor instead of just one end of the floor. </p>

    </p>
     
  14. #1_War_Poet_ForLife

    #1_War_Poet_ForLife The Baker of Cakes

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    I remember seeing an interview where he actually had the audacity of even thinking about the team w/o Nash, and thinking it might have a chance to be better.
     
  15. REREM

    REREM JBB JustBBall Member

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    Marion is signed for 2 yr with a 1 year opt out. Only if that's negotiated into a solid 4 yr----without a crazy price hike-is it a sensible investment.</p>

    Logically...we'd be using a chunk of TPE on Banks. Shedding him with zero $ back is quite a plus to the penny pinching Suns. Harrington is the logical main guy to the Suns. Pietrus is a maybe, O'Bryant or Kosta would likely go. That gets pretty near a $ match,with maybe Jazzy added. To add some value,we include a pick.</p>

    The Suns had veered away from using rd 1's and paying rd 1 money---but this does trim $$. So...a 08? ..a 09? We don't put any protect on it. If we add Marion and lose a lotto pick anyhow--shame shame..</p>

    If it came down to giving Biedrins....what's the POINT? The whole concept is Marion is Versatile....and he freakin' REBOUNDS so he can pair up with any of our 5 reb F's. He only scored about 1.5 more per game than Harrington. If the Suns want to salary dump Marion....our ability to use that TPE to swallow their main " bad contract...who's a 3rd string PG overpaid about $2 mill a year,but usable.....that's our special plus.</p>

    I think that if the Suns trade away Marion..they are fools. Then I consider that Kurt Thomas deal...and I think they already proved that much.</p>
     
  16. michael rain

    michael rain Member

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    Think about YI jian lian,that will be a perfect choose!
     
  17. dboogie_32

    dboogie_32 JBB JustBBall Member

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    I think the Warriors should definately go after marion. He'd fit well in our systembringing more defense and reboundingand i posted about this months ago.I think his numbers would change and he would do alot more good then bad for us.Too badhe costs way too much.I'm not complaining though. We've got a pretty good team without him.</p>
     
  18. .cabangbang

    .cabangbang BBW Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michael rain)</div><div class='quotemain'>Think about YI jian lian,that will be a perfect choose!</div></p>

    </p>

    Overrated whiny bitch.</p>
     
  19. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Air Monta)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michael rain)</div><div class='quotemain'>Think about YI jian lian,that will be a perfect choose!</div></p>

    </p>

    Overrated whiny bitch.</p>

    </div></p>

    Not sure if you meant Yi or Marion, but if it's Yi, to be fair he wasn't the one whining. He wanted to play regardless of who drafted him. The people who didn't want him to play in Milwaukee was the team in China who owns his rights. Apparently, the owner of the team had an agreement to receive a percentage of any revenue Yi generated, so obviously he wanted Yi in a larger market to cash in on marketing dollars.</p>

    </p>
     
  20. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    If we actually got Marion and negotiated for a smaller contract extension that would definitely be awesome. Every team needs a Josh Howard or Shane Battier (how about Andris Noccioni?) type of guy that will provide toughness with the versatility and near all-around game. Maybe a difference is whether or not the rumors (or known facts but unknown to me) about the Matrix's character and attitude are true or not. I definitely see more weakness in his ability as a playoff type of player IMO, so that's one thing to keep in mind before thinking his regular season game translates to the playoffs. It's like how Al Harrington and Monta Ellis disappeared in the Warriors post season, only Marion is not as bad as those two, but definitely below expectations at times. He's underrated, yet overrated to me and that really comes down to his contract in my eyes.</p>
     

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