Forum Game How do you build a contender around Dame in the next couple years?

You brought a know it all tone (AF!) and then spewed BS. If you're aware that length matters, why do you keep listing height which truly doesn't? Arguably the best post defender in the league is Draymond, & he measured less then 6'6. It's especially odd that you're drawing your conclusions from a hype site like ESPN instead of relying on actual measurements. On their respective teams, all time freaks of nature LBJ & Durant are PFs. They also didn't attend their combines, which allows them to be listed at whatever height they choose to be. Luka didn't attend his combine either & Kawhi plays PF for the Clips. Wading through some past combines over my coffee this morning, various SFs who did attend their combines and came in with wingspans, standing reach & weights comparable to the two aforementioned Blazers include Miles Bridges, Harrison Barnes, TJ Warren & Gordon Hayward. I'm sure I could come up with many more examples of NBA starting 3s who bring more or less the same size.

STOMP

 

Ability - Yes
Assets - No

The potential Lottery pick could be quite good.
Hart/Winslow can be solid role players.
Keon, Didi & Hughes.....meh.

This team needs a legit #2. They gave up a 2.5, a 3.5 and a couple solid role players. We are a long way from even replacing them, but miles away from getting a #2 which this team desperately needs.

 

Since we are talking about Keon Johnson..... Since he is a short guard, it seems he is not as asset that we want to keep long term. So I would want to see the team do whatever they can this season to develop him as an asset that other teams would find attractive. Work with him a lot and when he looks ready, play him a lot. Try to put him into situations where he can succeed.

 

And the worst part is that Neil traded away a bunch of first rounders that will probably be really good if we are trash. It could extend the rebuild.

 

Neil killed this team for years. It will take some clean up to get out of that. Some of that has been done. Now they have to build it up again.

 

Some targets to look at, where major change might arise in a playoff/reg season flameout (in my order of most prone for change)

- BOS - Jaylen Brown. That's it.
- BRK - Simmons, yet again
- ATL - Hunter/Collins, expensive roster already in a disappointing year.
- WSH- Do they pay Beal?
- NYK - Randle

- UTA - Gobert/Mitchell already fracturing
- LAL - Are they tired of Davis yet?
- NOP - What happens to Zion?

 

These Cronin apologists are now saying we didn't get back assets, but we have liquidity and flexibility to improve the roster???

No team is going to give us a star for "liquidity" or "flexibility". Would you want to trade Dame away for liquidity and flexibility? No, you'd want either starters or 1st round picks back, those are "assets" and those are whats required to get stars. Liquidity and flexibility are like a 2nd round pick, they can get you some tiny improvement, but they are insignificant when going for stars.

Cronin screwed up step 1 of the retool/rebuild. Or ownership overruled him with $ savings taking priority over all else. Now the team isn't in a position to build a contender around Dame, so they will have to pivot to a long term losing rebuild.

 

another consideration... those two lottery picks we have will start to lose value the moment the picks are made. if we are serious about building around Dame and an actual star is available for draft picks, we can't wait too long to trade them. Just need to see where they land after the lottery.

This was the dilemma GS has faced the last two years. They had the 2nd pick in 2020, and the 7th and 14th picks last year, and were deliberating trading them for vets for so long that they lost value. Wiseman, for example... does he have any value right now? That pick coulda brought back a legitimate star like Beal as was rumored.

 

Brown is the guy that I have wanted for a while........ but I think Dame is who would have to go out to bring him back.

Would Brown/Smart/FRP be enough value for Dame? Two FRP?

I still think that if we want to try to give it one more go with Dame, we have to trade Simons. Would Simons/Cap space/FRP be enough to get Brown? I don't think so honestly.

 

First - the apologist term is un-necessary. Many people, myself included, said that he took the first step - and it is to be determined if it will be a success or not.

Second - Of course the Blazers got assets, on a one over the other in a vacuum - even lesser assets - but these are assets that are much easier to utilize. If you need to get an asset that is 100, you have 2 assets that are 75 and 70 but are hard to exchange - and you replace these with assets that are worth 60 and 40 that are easier to exchange - you have an easier path to get that 100 value asset - even if the 2 assets before were worth more in a vacuum.

If you have land in the desert that is worth a million dollars on paper but no-takers, and you do not have money for food - that asset is pretty much worthless. Liquidity is important - and many businesses do not understand that and fail - and the NeO era Blazers are a classic example of this lack of understanding. Basic business acumen that is unfortunately, too often missed.

 

Thats a great point. The issue is we have such a baren roster now, we wouldn't want to send out every asset we could and end up like the Lakers with LeBron and AD.

Plus Ant is a restricted free agent, so we can't trade him, and can't trade Nurk being an unrestricted free agent either.

So what is the most we can offer at the draft; two possible lottery picks, Little, plus our future picks conditional with language about conveying two years after a pick goes to Chicago.

We probably end up in the same boat as GS where we just use the picks. If we really wanted to keep more options open to bring in stars for Dame, maybe we could consider flipping the 2022 picks for future draft picks, then making trades in free agency with those picks. I agree using the picks lessens their appeal in trades, its like driving a new car off the lot.

 

There were so many RFAs traded in S&Ts last summer, that it's not even a big deal any more.

 

Yeah I agree with this analogy.

Blazers had 200 in Dame and a 75 and 70 but needed to get to 400 to contend. So they were 55 away from contending. Possibly one good break, or likely two breaks from contending.

Now they have Dame at 200 and a 60 and 40. They are 100 away from contending. So there is nearly double the improvements needed to contend as before. Can they trade the 60 for a 160? That is beyond unlikely. I guess in theory its possible, but it was much more likely to trade a 70 for 125.

Either road is likely to fail, so I think some fans are just relieved there is a change. But the change put the team in a worse position than they were a week ago.

 

No, I meant trade him before using up the value of the unused lottery pick.

 

We need Ant to ball out and build some value.

Then hope and pray Boston falters and Tatum/Brown start fracturing in the playoffs.

Then S&T Ant for Brown the moment FA starts.

 

Well, I think the Blazers view it as 200 in Dame, 60 in Ant with a possibility of being a 100 over time, 75 in CJ with no chance of improvement that was paid like a 100, 70 in Norm that was properly paid, but because of the long contract - hard to move and is not likely to get any better and a 70 in Nurk which might be a 75 to 80 if he ever becomes consistent. Their plan seems to be to resign Ant hoping he will continue to improve, resign Nurk hoping that at worst he stays the same and flip the 60 and 40 for something closer to a 100.

The other problem with keepin the 75 and 70 - was that when they played together with Dame, you did not get 345, you only got 300 because they did not fit together. That's exactly what happened there - and as Cronin himself said - the hard part starts now. If he can not flip the 60 and 40 (TPE, Cap space, draft picks) and retain Ant and Nurk - it was a bad trade. If he can, it was a genius trade. But at least he has an easier path to get to the genius part.

 

This is where I am as well. Try to get Brown for Ant.

Try to get Collins or Randle with one of our FRP.

 

The one way I see we could really contend with Dame is if we won the lottery, or even top 3.

That gives us the ammo to go after a star to pair with Dame. Otherwise we just don't have the assets.

 

If you trade Dame, you absolutely do not trade the picks.