<div class="quote_poster">23MJordan23 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">"Kobe played in Jordan's era, he's a Laker, everyone in the league brings their A game when the Lakers come to town." Kobe played in the late Jordan Era. He started in 1996 - 97..The Jordan Era stopped after 1997 - 98 season....Kobe has little to no experience as to what Michael Jordan experienced....The Bad Boy pistons, Larry Bird and the Celtics, Even Julius Erving and the Sixers...Imagine If Kobe had to face Magic, Kareem and the Lakers back in the day...and Charles Barkley and the Suns...Charles was awesome in his prime. Kobe probably will not experience anything like what Jordan experienced.</div>I can see what you're coming from, but the competition today is just as stiff as it was when MJ was around. Wade, Dirk, Yao, LeBron, TMac, Arenas, etc. are all phenomenal players. And if Kobe would have played during the era of Magic and Bird, I think he'd be even better. He's got the complete package and insane condition, so if he were to play in the showtime era where teams were throwing up 120+ on a consistent basis, I think he could have easily kept up the competition. You are severely downplaying Kobe Bryant here I think.
Downplaying Kobe?...I didn't say that Kobe couldn't fair with them..but I am saying that Kobe will never face such intense competition in his career..Players actually hated on Jordan, tried to take him out of his game by any means necessary, especially Isiah Thomas....Basketball players are not like technology...Jordan could definitely whoop a$$ now (if he were in his prime). He'd be even better? Why do you say that, Moo? Kobe is not as good as Mike at the moment. Rock4Life... Jordan cut and drained so many times in that video....Kobe played well too..but that youtube doesn't prove your statement.
<div class="quote_poster">23MJordan23 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">"Kobe played in Jordan's era, he's a Laker, everyone in the league brings their A game when the Lakers come to town." Kobe played in the late Jordan Era. He started in 1996 - 97..The Jordan Era stopped after 1997 - 98 season....Kobe has little to no experience as to what Michael Jordan experienced....The Bad Boy pistons, Larry Bird and the Celtics, Even Julius Erving and the Sixers...Imagine If Kobe had to face Magic, Kareem and the Lakers back in the day...and Charles Barkley and the Suns...Charles was awesome in his prime. Kobe probably will not experience anything like what Jordan experienced.</div> The Jordan era lasted until 2001-2002 season. The league only made drastic changes during the 2001-2002 NBA season. Imagine if Kobe did play in that era, he'd be just as dominant. Kobe's skills transcend any era of basketball. The league was more difficult back then because there were less teams in the league, but the league now is a lot more athletic, stronger, quicker, and taller.
<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">The league was more difficult back then because there were less teams in the league, but the league now is a lot more athletic, stronger, quicker, and taller.</div> Not physical. Jordan took hell lot more beating than Kobe, because his style of play and because of the defenders back then. I the championships are a bit overrated. Kobe is closer to Jordan than most people think. The Jordan shoes and everything has put Jordan in our minds at the top of the list to where we will never fully be able to take in that someone else can be better than him
<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">The league was more difficult back then because there were less teams in the league, but the league now is a lot more athletic, stronger, quicker, and taller.</div> Wasn't the NBA twice as physical in the late 80's and early 90's?
The Jordan Era ended in 1997 - 98...When he was on the Wizards, that was post Jordan Era, he was not in his prime. Era's signify dominance..he wasn't on the Wizards in his prime, and his goal wasn't to dominate..but rather to manage and "teach."
<div class="quote_poster">Pakman Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Not physical. Jordan took hell lot more beating than Kobe, because his style of play and because of the defenders back then. I the championships are a bit overrated. Kobe is closer to Jordan than most people think. The Jordan shoes and everything has put Jordan in our minds at the top of the list to where we will never fully be able to take in that someone else can be better than him</div> Only a few teams played physical defense, the Pistons, the Knicks, and the Bulls were very physical. Not every team in the NBA played a physical brand of defense. Players were tougher, but how do you measure who took more of a beating? I don't remember Jordan hitting the hardwood very often or getting physically beat down. The only time I remember Jordan getting physically abused was the playoff series against the Pistons and the infamous "Jordan Rules." It's really irrelevant to the original topic anyways. Kobe is more fundamentally sound as an offensive player than Jordan ever was.
<div class="quote_poster">23MJordan23 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Players actually hated on Jordan, tried to take him out of his game by any means necessary, especially Isiah Thomas....Basketball players are not like technology...Jordan could definitely whoop a$$ now (if he were in his prime).</div> I'm pretty sure Kobe Bryant has had people hate on him just as much. Raja Bell almost ripped Kobe's head off with his WWE clothesline. Players always defend rougher on Kobe because if they didnt Kobe would be scoring 100 points a night (exaggeration). Thats why everyone played rougher with Jordan as well...because if they didn't Jordan would dominate every freaken time he had the ball. I think you are a bit underestimating Kobe's talent. IMO, Kobe would hold his own in just about every era.
<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It's really irrelevant to the original topic anyways. Kobe is more fundamentally sound as an offensive player than Jordan ever was.</div> If shot selection is a fundamental, I'd disagree.
@ NTC Oh...is that so? I do not think Kobe is on Mike's level...therefore, as you said, I must not have seen him play before ever in life. Well...I suppose all of the games with "Kobe" in it wasn't really Kobe...are you suggesting that there is a Kobe clone out there doing all of the work for the real Kobe?...I swear, I've seen Kobe play. @ LakersKBB I'm sure of that...Michael Jordan was consistently being schemed by people....Those clotheslines, some players forget what sport they are in.
<div class="quote_poster">23MJordan23 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">@ NTC Oh...is that so? I do not think Kobe is on Mike's level...therefore, as you said, I must not have seen him play before ever in life. Well...I suppose all of the games with "Kobe" in it wasn't really Kobe...are you suggesting that there is a Kobe clone out there doing all of the work for the real Kobe?...I swear, I've seen Kobe play.</div> Well then you're just a biased MJ fanboy, because Kobe has proven time and time again that he is capable of just as much as MJ was, maybe even more. If you dont rank Kobe on the same level as Jordan now, you never will / should.
<div class="quote_poster">NTC187 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Well then you're just a biased MJ fanboy, because Kobe has proven time and time again that he is capable of just as much as MJ was, maybe even more.</div> I don't know how you can say that when he hasn't even gotten out of the first round without Shaquille O'neal next to him yet. And it's not going to happen this season either. Kobe is a great player, but he is NOT on Jordan's level. Don't blow his incredible scoring streaks out of proportion.
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I don't know how you can say that when he hasn't even gotten out of the first round without Shaquille O'neal next to him yet. And it's not going to happen this season either. Kobe is a great player, but he is NOT on Jordan's level. Don't blow his incredible scoring streaks out of proportion.</div> Look at who he is playing with, thats not a Playoff team, thats not a winning team, the fact they're even in the Playoff race at all is amazing in itself, and it's all thanks to 1 man. Anyway, I'm talking as individual players, the way they play the game, not accomplishments or winning feats.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">This is exactly my argument, which is why I'd take Shaq ahead of Wade if I needed one player right now to win a 7 game series. It doesn't mean Shaq is individually better than Wade, it just means it would be harder to replace Shaq and what he gives a team, than what Wade does for a team. Wade cannot win without specialists on the court, no one can win a game or series by themselves. It's not a hard concept to understand. If you put Shaq or Duncan on any team in the league, that team would instantly become a playoff contender. You can't say the same for Wade. </div> so you'd take Shaq and Duncan over anyone then since they aren't as easy to replace????....the game is dominated by perimiter players nowadays so it's much easier to replace them....normally I'd agree with that, but Shaq is an above avg. center at this point in his career who one night might give you 25 points and then the next night 8....that's not a guy I want to win a series for me, especially considering he can't shoot FTs...oh well to each his own. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">LeBron Nash Garnett have never had Shaq on their team.</div> and they didn't have Pippen either so I guess that means they're better than M.J. huh? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Steve Nash has 2 MVP awards, does anyone consider him a HOF player? No, they dont</div> Nash = HOF homie, lol...anyone who wins back to back MVP awards will (and should) be in the HOF. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">It's really irrelevant to the original topic anyways. Kobe is more fundamentally sound as an offensive player than Jordan ever was.</div> more skill offensively yes, but fundamentals???...nah I'd disagree, M.J. was one of the smartest players that I've ever seen play the game.... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If shot selection is a fundamental, I'd disagree.</div> yeah, I think this my biggest concern with Kobe and Tex Winter even agrees..I still don't know if Kobe has figured out how to get "his" within the flow of the game without totally alienating his teammates....that's why I say Wade > Kobe.....I don't know if Kobe gets when to turn it "on" and "off" yet, case in example last year against Phoenix, at times during the series (even before game 7) I thought that he seemed a tad bit "too passive" to the point where I forgot he was on the floor. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Anyone who says Kobe isnt on the same level as MJ, obviously hasnt seen Kobe play before.</div> I said he had more offensive skill than Jordan but Kobe has a LONG way to go before I consider him one of the top 10 players to ever play this game...I can't put him in the same sentence with MJ, Magic,Wilt,Larry,Hakeem,Oscar, or Russell just yet (and that goes for everyone in todays game except Shaq and Duncan). <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Look at who he is playing with, thats not a Playoff team, thats not a winning team, the fact they're even in the Playoff race at all is amazing in itself, and it's all thanks to 1 man. Anyway, I'm talking as individual players, the way they play the game, not accomplishments or winning feats. </div> I disagree before the injuries hit Odom was playing very good and so was Walton, and from time to time Bynum would step up and play well also.....Kobe has some pretty good talent around him it's just that injuries hit the Lakers and they're young.
<div class="quote_poster">NTC187 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Well then you're just a biased MJ fanboy, because Kobe has proven time and time again that he is capable of just as much as MJ was, maybe even more. If you dont rank Kobe on the same level as Jordan now, you never will / should.</div> I love the biased card. But it doesn't work on me, choose a different card. "Look at who he is playing with, thats not a Playoff team, thats not a winning team, the fact they're even in the Playoff race at all is amazing in itself, and it's all thanks to 1 man." All thanks to 1 man? I am sure that the other Lakers teammates would appreciate you discrediting them for their hard work. I give Michael Jordan credit for leading the way, but he couldn't have done it without his other teammates.
^^^yeah it isn't just Kobe and "the scrubs", he has some talent around him...he even credits his current success to Odom and Luke...
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The league was more difficult back then because there were less teams in the league, but the league now is a lot more athletic, stronger, quicker, and taller.</div> To be honest, the athleticism in the league really hasn't changed that much, and even then, there are some guys who are athletic, but it really doesn't do much on the basketball court. So the athleticism difference from the 80's, and 90's (which is not even long ago) doesn't make a difference. Right now you'll still have games with a guy like Jorge Garbajosa guarding Lebron James, or Matt Carroll/Adam Morrison guarding an opposing SG. I mean Jose Calderon was on Kobe for a little while when he anahilated the Raptors, soo... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">His footwork in the post is more polished than Jordan's. It allows Kobe to have more counter moves once the defender reacts. Kobe has more versatility in his mid-range game than Jordan had. Kobe is better at finishing with his left hand than Jordan ever was.</div> I don't agree with Kobe being a more skilled offensive player, or a more skilled scorer (though it's very close). Shot selection and decision making is part of offensive scoring ability, Jordan was better in those areas. Inside 21 feet, Jordan was every bit as good a shooter, and inside 18 feet, a better shooter than Kobe is. I think Kobe is very close, he has more range on his jumper, he's a better dribbler (not neccesarily "ball handler"), he has a nice repetoire of moves, and like was said, he can finish better with his left hand etc. As a scorer, Jordan's footwork was no less than Kobe's, he wasn't just a one trick pony in the post, he also had counter moves, and was able to adjust to the defense. He had very good ways of creating with his midrange game, he was better at off-the-ball movement, he had a superior ability to quickly read defenses and make proper decisions, and like all the good offensive players do, he was very good at reading what his opponents did, and finding open space on the floor. Now when we talk of offensive skill, scoring with the ball is not the only thing. Jordan was a better shot selector and decision maker, and also a better playmaker and passer. Part of offensive skill is being able to find the "good" shots, and get yourself in good scoring situations. Jordan was able to do this more so than Kobe can. We can't say Kobe is a better scorer, but not as good at shot selection, because superior scoring ability as a volume scorer, allows you to be able to make the best decisions with and without the ball when trying to score. Of course you'll have to take some tough shots, and create, but if you can give yourself a high amount of good looks because of your movement, and your decisions with the ball, that's a skill. Just like it's a skill that Marion is able to get himself in many scoring oppurtunities and can score without the ball, because not everyone can do that. In addition to this, people always neglect that Jordan played recently as an "old man", and was still good. Isn't Jordan the oldest player to score 40+ and 50+, and wasn't he almost 4 years older than Bernard King who scored 50+ at 35? Jordan would have no problem against Kobe, Wade and Lebron, just like Kobe, Wade and Lebron can play against themselves right now. Just like many other SG's in the league can play against them right now. Jordan played against a good amount of guys who at younger ages were playing him, and when they were older were still considered good defenders guarding guys like Kobe, Vince, Tmac etc. Really, if Jordan was playing against Wade and Lebron, they wouldn't even be guarding him. On the Cavs Hughes would guard him, and on the Heat, Posey and EJ would guard him. Even on the Lakers, someone else might be switched on him for stretches of the game to not have Kobe expending too much energy on defense. Let's be serious here, prime Jordan playing right now would put up 32-34 PPG (FT's boost this), 6+ RPG, 5-6 APG, 2+ SPG, ~1 BPG, ~49-50% FG, and be the best defensive SG in the league by a good margin, especially when we start talking of the top perimeter guys. Similarly, Kobe in Jordan's time would put up 28-32 PPG (FT's decrease this), 5-6 RPG, 5-6 APG, ~1.5 SPG, 46-48% FG. I hope no one here is thinking that either of these guys would become any less of a player at any time, because that's just foolish. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Here's a video of Jordan vs Kobe back in his rookie year: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BC5sW1Xnj3g Watching this video helps me conclude that Jordan couldn't handle Kobe NOW. He couldn't even stay in front of him then. Kobe was givin it to Jordan for a sec lol</div> Something like this just shows me that because Jordan was quite good at an old age, and some people who watched him then, and haven't looked back at the younger Jordan think that's how was in his prime athletically. Jordan was 34 years old in 97-98, he retired after that season. That's about the same age when we started calling Gary Payton the Mitten, not the Glove. Kidd is 33 I think right now, and I know he's had surgery on his knees, but since 04-05, there have been complaints of his inability to guard quicker PG's like he would've been able to in his prime. Jordan was not close to his athletic prime at 34 years of age, no player really is. Secondly, you talk about Kobe now, and how he beat Jordan with quickness as a rookie a few plays. Well the first thing is that even the greatest defenders get beat or scored on. Unless you haven't watched younger Kobe though, you'd know that Kobe now, while a more skilled player by far, is not nearly as explosive as he was at 18 years old. He's stronger, that's the only thing, about every other area of his athleticism is not the same as it was back then.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Similarly, Kobe in Jordan's time would put up 28-32 PPG (FT's decrease this), 5-6 RPG, 5-6 APG, ~1.5 SPG, 46-48% FG. I hope no one here is thinking that either of these guys would become any less of a player at any time, because that's just foolish.</div> no I'm not saying that the question was how would he stack up against these guys if they all played in the same era....there's no doubt in my mind that M.J. would still be great...
