Hugo Chávez wins referendum allowing indefinite re-election

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by ¹²³, Feb 16, 2009.

  1. PapaG

    PapaG Banned User BANNED

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    Is this another example of your "facts"?
     
  2. Karl Malone's Elbows

    Karl Malone's Elbows Batum: once in a lifetime

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    No, and the difference would be quite clear to most literate people. But unfortunately not all.
     
  3. PapaG

    PapaG Banned User BANNED

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    Facts be damned?
     
  4. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.996d5cb1e73d96f0dfd0871ab8daba1f.3f1&show_article=1

    <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td style="font-size: 20px; font-weight: bold;" valign="top" width="99%">US urges respect for democracy in Venezuela</td> <td align="right" valign="top">[​IMG]</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <!-- headline end --> <!-- date/author start --> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr> <td colspan="2">[​IMG]</td> </tr> </tbody></table>The United States Tuesday welcomed Venezuela's "civic" referendum lifting term limits for the president and all politicians, but urged support for democracy and tolerance in the country. "We congratulate the civic and participatory spirit of the millions of Venezuelans who exercized their democratic right to vote," State Department spokesman Noel Clay told AFP.

    Venezuelans on Sunday voted 54 percent in favor of constitutional reform sought by President Hugo Chavez to run for unlimited reelection, in his bid to consolidate his brand of socialism critics compare to Cuba's communism.

    Clay said that after the vote, "it is important that elected officials now focus on governing democratically and addressing the issues of concern to the Venezuelan people."

    "We encourage all sectors of Venezuelan society to respect the diversity of use (of the vote) that is the strength of a pluralistic democracy," he added.

    The US reaction to Venezuela's vote comes uncharacteristically before the complete tally has been announced. The country's electoral board has issued its first, 54-46 percent vote result with only 94 percent of precincts reporting.

    US-Venezuelan relations have been steadily deteriorating since Chavez first took office in 1999. In September, they took a turn for the worse after Venezuela expelled the US ambassador and the United States responded in kind.
     
  5. PapaG

    PapaG Banned User BANNED

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    Shouldn't we be lecturing India on how to deal with Pakistan? Oh wait, we are...
     
  6. DaRizzle

    DaRizzle BLAKER

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    Yes
     
  7. Ed O

    Ed O Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    I don't see any "facts" in your statements, actually.

    Economies are cyclical and while governmental action can probably help minimize the bad times, the odds of Clinton's leadership would have prevented the current global crisis are remote, at best, in my opinion.

    Ed O.
     
  8. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    Oh, dear. I can see you're heading into black helocopter territory. But just for fun, what does the 1.8MM jobs lost since the November election indicate?
     
  9. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    Whether Clinton wants to admit it or not, he was President when Glass-Steagall was repealed, he signed the Commodity Futures Modernization Act and pushed banks to lend in low-income, high-risk neighborhoods by loosening regulations and threatening them with investigation if they didn't use those looser regulations to put money in those neighborhoods.
     
  10. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    Dude, way to ruin a semantic and anecdotal debate with your fancy-schmancy economic terms, and actual legislation, and stuff.
     
  11. ¹²³

    ¹²³ ¼½¾

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    I still think there is a good possibility that Chávez will not win the next presidential election.
     
  12. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    I think there is a good possibility that Hugo won't get the most votes, but that he'll win anyway.
     
  13. Ed O

    Ed O Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    I hope you're right... even if he wins, I hope there's a legitimate chance that he does not.

    Unfortunately, I see about a 0% chance of him not being in charge after the next election he's involved in.

    Ed O.
     
  14. WWBRoyD

    WWBRoyD Psychic Guru of Confucius

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    That's not accurate.

    Elections in Venezuela are some of the most closely watched elections on the planet. Election Watch groups from all over the world have stated over and over elections in Venezuela are clean with a transparent process.
     
  15. Ed O

    Ed O Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Yep. Right.

    Crazy how hundreds of politicians--all of whom happen to be anti-Chavez--have been blacklisted and denied running for political office, huh?

    It's irrelevant that Chavez entirely controls the state-run media, while opponent voices are stifled.

    I'm sure that these, along with other elements of the voting environment that are controlled by Chavez or his close political supporters, help ensure that the elections are "clean".

    Ed O.
     
  16. WWBRoyD

    WWBRoyD Psychic Guru of Confucius

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    You mean the people who have tried overthrowing Venezuela's elected govenment in coup attempts twice and failed twice.

    People who attempt to overthrow elected governments don't get to run for office. They would go to prison in every civilized nation in the world.


    Every single one of the other media outlets in Venezuela are owned by members/supporters of those who tried to overthrow the elected government in Venezuela twice and are run by the allies of the coup plotters with nothing but talking points glorifying those who plotted the coups.
     
  17. PapaG

    PapaG Banned User BANNED

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    Wow. Does Chavez email you talking points? What's funny is that you seem to actually believe that the only people imprisoned in Venezuela for "opposing" Chavez are those who have acted in violence or participated in a coup attempt. Venezuela is a craphole right now and many of its citizens live in 3rd-world conditions, yet Chavez is scrambling as fast as he can to consolidate his power by taking over the oil industry and controlling the finances. It still may not work for him.
     
  18. WWBRoyD

    WWBRoyD Psychic Guru of Confucius

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    Nonsense. I saw it happen live over internet video with my own eyes.

    Chavez is the legitimate elected leader of Venezuela. The military attempted to overthrow the legitimate elected government. The people of Venezuela took to the streets to protect and defend the leader they elected. The coup plotters surrendered, and were imprisoned.
     
  19. Ed O

    Ed O Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    No. I mean the people that a minister determined cannot be eligible to run for office (last year) because of the POTENTIAL of charges being brought against them.

    Then charge them. Put them in prison.

    That's not what's being done, because they're not plotting to overthrow the government.

    Every single one? Wow.

    That's amazing.

    Doesn't it seem like someone, somewhere, could be opposed to Chavez without being willing to overthrow him?

    And yet you seem pretty confident that there isn't ANY of those people running media in that country.

    Ed O.
     
  20. WWBRoyD

    WWBRoyD Psychic Guru of Confucius

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    State Department Calls Bolivian and Venezuelan Referendums "Democratic"

    Laura Carlsen | February 18, 2009
    Americas Program, Center for International Policy (CIP)

    There are early signs of change in the Obama State Department. In response to significant political victories by former Bush nemeses Hugo Chavez in Venezuela and Evo Morales in Bolivia, State Department spokespersons praised the democratic processes in these countries, indicating a more open attitude toward the growing independence of Latin American nations.

    Chavez won his referendum on lifting term limits for elected officials on Feb. 15 by a solid 54% at last count, with a 70% turnout. State Department spokesperson Gordon Duguid stated that, "For the most part this was a process that was fully consistent with democratic process."

    Last week spokesperson Robert Wood established the administration's position on the referendum by calling it "an internal matter." When asked for his opinion on the Venezuelan vote, Duguid echoed that position saying it "was a matter for the Venezuelan people."

    A similar response came out of the State Department following the Jan. 25 vote on Bolivia's new constitution. Approved by 61%, the vote culminated a reform process that nearly tore apart the nation and left several dead in its wake due to the violent opposition of anti-Evo factions.

    The day after the vote, Wood congratulated the Bolivian people on the referendum and stated, "We look forward to working with the Bolivian Government in ways we can to further democracy ..." When asked if he believed the referendum furthers democracy, he replied, "A free, fair, you know, democratic process certainly does contribute positively."

    These might seem like standard-issue statements from a government commenting on matters pertaining to neighboring countries. But if the votes had taken place under the Bush watch, the response would have been much different.

    The Bush administration kept a pouty silence following President Morales' resounding victory in a recall referendum Aug. 10 as congratulations poured in from other nations. It remained similarly mute after the massacre of at least 25 peasants, supporters of the president, by opposition forces. After the U.S. ambassador was expelled, Bush cut off trade preferences to the country.

    In the case of Venezuela, the active hostility against the Chavez government was well known and heavily broadcast by the mainstream press. From not condemning the ultimately failed coup against Chavez in 2002 to frequent name-calling, the administration's relations with Venezuela reflected a permanent enmity that tended to be expressed in infantile, personal terms.

    In general, Latin America has welcomed President Obama with a combination of relief—Bush had a dismal approval rating throughout—and signs of good faith, suspending judgment as the new government defines its polices toward the region. Hopes for constructive engagement with the U.S. Government rekindled after the 2008 elections, especially within the countries deemed the bad guys under the Bush division of the hemisphere.

    http://americas.irc-online.org/am/5879

    State Department praised the democratic process in Venezuela. Subject closed.
     

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