Umm... https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/winfida01.shtml. shows over 60+ unless im reading it wrong
Baseball-reference.com, one of my favorite sites. I thought the site showed "Defensive WAR", but I don't see Defensive WAR on t/site, only Offensive WAR.... this can easily get complicated for a stat that's not really clearly defined. Bill James gave Winfield a -9.8 Defensive WAR. "There seems to be a consensus in the most popular metrics that Winfield was a bad fielder, and yet he won seven gold gloves. Was Winfield vastly overrated, and the voters kept whiffing, or are there things that could account for such a large difference between perspective and data?" Personally, I think So... If you go to another site, i.e. https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1014127&position=OF#fielding then look at the overall Defensive Value, (same as WAR pretty much); over 22 yrs his total: -243.9 รท 22 yrs = -9.0/-9.4 then again my math could be off... IF Defensive WAR was correct or a legit stat, then players like Roberto Alomar, Jeter, Winfield, Bernie Williams, Ken Griffey Jr, Craig Biggio and Tori Hunter would round out the top 10 worst defensive fielders of all time. We know that's incorrect. The one knock on Winfield, some say was his long lanky inability to cover ground, imo also incorrect kinda sorta... or- http://bleacherreport.com/articles/881922-10-most-overrated- defenders-in-baseball-history#slide6 I've long had a problem with Defensive WAR, imo it's a weird stat to say the least DWAR is extremely objectionable...
extremely subjective and/or objective useless stats. And Yep, imo Barfield and Winfield had great arms, with (imo) Barfield having a tad better arm...
Well, which stat/metric would you rather use? You obviously don't think Ichiro was that good... If you can provide evidence to the contrary, fine, let's hear it. It's pretty simple, I think Ichiro's arm was elite, you don't...if you can show proof otherwise, I'll be glad to debate this further. The discussion is about who is/was the best all around RFer...and defensively, Winfield was noway near as good as Ichiro...collectively, Barfield during his brief career was not as good as Ichiro....respectively, .other than bravado, I'm not sure what your argument is based on. All I'm saying is that neither of the 2 players you mentioned had a distinctive advantage over Ichiro Suzuki.
where again did insay he wasnt a good rf'er? All i said was that the clip shown didnt mean he was this all time great. As far as war goes...i dont go by stats that were made up after the fact. Goikg back in time and looking at film and determing start and ending position to determine how well a player played his position to me is not fair.
You're looking at TOTAL WAR...I believe his OFFENSIVE WAR is 70-something and Winfield's Career DEFENSIVE WAR is -22.7. ...and I clearly stated that I was "surprised" by that stat and was in no way saying or implying that Winfield was not an elite player.
And Al, I'm quite aware of all of your posts...I read them all. But since your very first comment it just seemed that you were downplaying Ichiro's arm, pointing to one video that you obviously were not impressed with when there were several others that showed the strength and accuracy of his arm. ...you can discount WAR if you want to but like I said you can point to other stats if you like...for example, Barfield and Winny, and Ichiro all had a lot of OF assists...so did Clemente, but again, it's no big deal one way or the other.
Thanks, I just knew I had seen it before on baseball reference.com. another one of my senior moments Doh~
I only use film videos, because I have not figured out how to download my memories onto video... Johnny Mnemonic where R U???
