If KCP/Otto Porter get max deals..

All it would take is one good year and Crabbe's deal would look very reasonable.

 

Yes

 

Well, of course there are three interpretations of your question:
Are they overpaid RELATIVE TO OTHER NBA Players? and
Are they overpaid in the grand scheme of things?
Are they overpaid given their role in the money-machine that is the NBA?

And the answers are: still yes, FUCK yes and probably.

 

http://amp.timeinc.net/si/nba/2017/...ckets-chris-paul-russell-westbrook?source=dam

Interesting article on how overpaying stars is an issue with the supermax.

 

It's hard for me to come to that same conclusion that they are overpaid when we see the money that will be given out going forward, especially if players like Andre Roberson get 15 million - and he isn't even a restricted free agent. That's insane. ET at 18 is a bargain. HELL if Meyers ever got it somewhat together he would be a great deal for a backup PF/C shooter at his current rate given the numbers I've seen for other guys.

Seems like the market is giving Mid level guys more money and squeezing the upper echelon guys to take less money if they want to play on a competitive team or build a competitive team around them with supermax

 

And there are also people on this forum that don't give a fuck about Paul Allen's bank account balance, as long as it doesn't hinder the teams' ability to get better.

Unfortunately, overpaying guys who are underperforming does just that. One of the major features of the current CBA is that the luxury tax is no longer just a financial penalty. It also has additional penalties that make it more difficult to make roster moves to improve your team. And, that's why some of us care.

As Denny has correctly pointed out, we are already missing out on getting the full MLE this summer because we are over the tax apron. That limits the quality of any role player we could get that would help improve our bench.

Unless we can dump one of Crabbe or Turner, we will eventually (after extending Nurk) be in repeater tax territory, which severely limits out ability to complete trades.

There are implications and ramifications to overpaying underperfoming players that reach beyond Paul Allen's checking account balance. That's why bad contracts matter.

BNM

 

Well I don't care about Paul money but I don't believe over paying someone neither. What it does when you do that it restrict you making moves by trades, FA. Those tools beside the draft helps you make your team better. When you take away 2 of those tools away then your only hope is the draft that usually dont help you until the 2 or 3 year. The other way is your players all sudden get better.

 

Roberson at $15M is mad but it's still the effect of the cap growing too much over the last two years. Porter and Caldwell-Pope I would probably be fine paying $15M - $17M a season.

 

Leonard would be great for tanking. If their short and mid term plan is to tank, putting Leonard at starting center would be a brilliant move.

 

It was half-truth, half-sarcasm. Not that I'd expect you to understand that.

 

Why is that insane? Roberson is 3 years younger than Turner and has not yet reached his peak. He was just named 2nd team all defense and was a full time starter on a 47-win team. Turner was a bench player on a 41-win team.

He's not a great shooter, but neither is Turner. Roberson's TS% is actually higher (.510 vs. 491). The only reason Turner scores more is because he has a MUCH higher USG% (18.5 vs. 10.1). Unfortunately, Turner uses up way too many possessions (with turnovers and missed shots) for the offense he generates.

The big difference is in the advanced stats, where Roberson absolutely kills Turner.

Offensive Rating:
Roberson = 108
Turner = 100

Defensive Rating:
Roberson = 106
Turner = 111

Net Rating:
Roberson = +2
Turner = -11

Offensive Win Shares:
Roberson = 1.1
Turner = 0.0

Defensive Wins Shares:
Roberson = 3.1
Turner = 1.2

Total Wins Shares:
Roberson = 4.2
Turner = 1.2

Win Shares per 48:
Roberson = .085
Turner = .035

Offensive Box +/-
Roberson = -2.1
Turner = -2.5

Defensive Box +/-
Roberson = 2.1
Turner = -0.1

Box +/-
Roberson = 0.0
Turner = -2.6

Value over Replacement Player:
Roberson = 1.2
Turner = -0.3

Both are below average offensively. Roberson is an elite defender. Turner is an average defender. Roberson is an above average player overall, because he is one of the top 4 defensive wings in the league. Turner is a below average player overall because he does nothing at an elite level and several things below average (shooting, turnovers, etc.). Roberson is three years younger and apparently, will be making about $3 million a year less than Turner - and you called that insane.

So yes, Evan Turner is overpaid. So is Allen Crabbe and so is Meyer Leonard. Sure, after last summer's spending spree, you can point out a couple specific examples (Chandler Parsons and Timofey Mosgov) of players who are even more overpaid, but that doesn't change the fact that, based on their production, Turner, Crabbe and Leonard are all overpaid.

BNM

 

You can't afford much with the full MLE, even if it comes in at 8 mill a season, if reported salaries figures are correct. Who would you target?

We also have plenty of role players, and pretty decent ones at that, I'd say.

 

Thanks for the lesson in market value. I should have skipped college.

If everyone is trying to sign a guy for $10-12 million, and you decide to offer him for $17 million, you technically set his market value. A market of one. That's not good business practices.

Many of these contracts are the result of a change to the cap structure which significantly increased the cap. Guys who happen to be FA's during these years got abnormally-large contract offers. GENERALLY speaking, if everyone were a free agent and teams had to work with the current cap (or say $15 million above to account for the fact many teams are over the cap), guys like Allen Crabbe and Evan Turner would not be paid $17+ million per season.

 

Not too interested in advanced stats when you're comparing someone who had to integrate their game with a brand new team, got hurt, then made a major trade (Nurk) and had to adjust again. I stated the same thing when someone said Danny Green was 'far' superior. Especially when that person is ball dominant and plays with ball dominant guards. I'll be more interested in how Turner plays after this year. Roberson has been with the same team and same backcourt partner for years now.

Roberson is an elite defender - can't dribble, drive, shoot or pass - and when he does it's because he is literally WIDE open because teams DO NOT guard him and he has the advantage of playing with the league MVP (which also impacts why he doesn't have a high usg% or turnover%) because when Westbrook passes to him, it's for him to shoot the wide open shot that coaches have schemed to allow. I recall him being benched in the playoffs for this reason and failure to make free throws. If his shot (which sucks) isn't falling, he doesn't have the ability to put it on the floor and get to the rim or mid range and makes it easier to zero in on Westbrook, as he provides no ball handling or passing relief. Tony Allen at least could get to the rim and attack to make up for his lackluster shot.



Turner, on the other hand, is pretty much the opposite. Except he doesn't have the greatest 3pt shot. Neither did Gerald Henderson, but teams wouldn't give him 10 ft of room to shoot wide open shots.