When did Nets fans steal Isiah Thomas's vision? Keep the youth movement, keep Marcus, keep the draft picks...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Joey FistPump @ Feb 29 2008, 10:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>When did Nets fans steal Isiah Thomas's vision? Keep the youth movement, keep Marcus, keep the draft picks...</div> I have no problem trading anyone on this team if it means bringing in a player you could build around. But Brand is too risky IMO.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Dark Defender @ Feb 29 2008, 10:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Joey FistPump @ Feb 29 2008, 10:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>When did Nets fans steal Isiah Thomas's vision? Keep the youth movement, keep Marcus, keep the draft picks...</div> I have no problem trading anyone on this team if it means bringing in a player you could build around. But Brand is too risky IMO. </div> I'm not saying that making a trade is necessarily wrong, I'm just saying trading youth and draft picks for expensive aging players (one who doesn't fit your system) is Isiah-ish. I'm all for trading RJ or Vince, I'm cool with trading draft picks as well...hell even Swat, Marcus and Boone...I just think keeping the team young, financially flexible, and DEEP is very important. If the right deal comes along then upgrade a team, but trading Swat, Marcus 3 firsts, Swift and Hassell would be way to much for a 29 year old undersized power forward who's coming off a major surgery. Achilles injuries are worse than knee injuries in a lot of ways...just seems risky. I'd say this offseason we be patient, see if anyone blows us away for RJ or Vince, or holds a firesale ala Pau Gasol. If utilize the draft, make a signing in free agency (either J.R. Smith or Michael Pietrus) and prepare for next season...by having a lot of young talent, 3 first for the following two season, and a deep roster we can afford to make an attempt to draft wisely and act wisely in free agency. Bottomline is we can always wait til next february to make a deal at the deadline if we look like TRUE championship contenders. I'm just saying we play one great game and suddenly everyone thinks we're the shit...we're a playoff team by default...lets see how we do on this west coast trip before we go crazy.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NOMAM @ Feb 29 2008, 09:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>But could you get Brand without giving up RJ though? Look at the assets the Nets could use in a trade: 2 Dallas first round picks 2 possible future Nets first round picks Sean Williams Marcus Williams Salary filler Swift (6 million expiring next season) Hassell Ager Nets could put together some attractive combo with those pieces. Only negative in there would would be Hassell's contract which won't expire next season.</div> If we're gonna trade away Sean Williams and 4 firsts then I'd rather go after a player like Al Jefferson. At least he's young.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Joey FistPump @ Feb 29 2008, 11:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>trading Swat, Marcus 3 firsts, Swift and Hassell would be way to much for a 29 year old undersized power forward who's coming off a major surgery.</div> I don't think anyone here proposed something that drastic or one-sided. I certainly didn't. I was proposing RJ, Marcus, and one of our young bigs for a career 20/10 inside force that plays both ends of the floor and was all NBA second team just recently. And then following that with a move to bring in Mike Miller (3-team deal) using Swift and a draft pick or two, giving us a versatile 3 who can really light it up from outside and stretch the defense, complimenting VC and Devin a little better than RJ (although RJ has been very good from outside this year). This move would leave us needing a solid, cheap backup point, possibly a vet like Anthony Johnson or Brevin Knight, and needing another young point protege, which should be easy enough to do via the draft or trade (Kyle Lowry?). Resign Diop and get a young wing with upside (always plenty of those around, including D League and undrafted guys). We'd still be very solid up front with Diop, Brand, and 2 of Boone, Sean, and Nenad. I'm not sold on doing it either and definitely would want to weigh things again after the season ends. But since Brand is such a rare type of player in this day and age, it seems a question Nets fans and brass ought to kick around.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Joey FistPump @ Feb 29 2008, 10:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>When did Nets fans steal Isiah Thomas's vision? Keep the youth movement, keep Marcus, keep the draft picks</div> Nobody on the Knicks can sniff Elton Brand's jockstrap.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Joey FistPump @ Feb 29 2008, 11:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If we're gonna trade away Sean Williams and 4 firsts then I'd rather go after a player like Al Jefferson. At least he's young.</div> I wasn't suggesting giving up 4 firsts AND Sean, but rather some combination of those pieces. But I'm glad you brought up Al Jefferson because I was watching a Spurs-Wolves game some time ago and was wondering if the Nets should try for him and what his value is or even if the Wolves would be open to trading him. Do the Nets have enough pieces to pry a guy like Al Jefferson away from the Wolves?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NOMAM @ Mar 1 2008, 12:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Joey FistPump @ Feb 29 2008, 11:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If we're gonna trade away Sean Williams and 4 firsts then I'd rather go after a player like Al Jefferson. At least he's young.</div> I wasn't suggesting giving up 4 firsts AND Sean, but rather some combination of those pieces. But I'm glad you brought up Al Jefferson because I was watching a Spurs-Wolves game some time ago and was wondering if the Nets should try for him and what his value is or even if the Wolves would be open to trading him. Do the Nets have enough pieces to pry a guy like Al Jefferson away from the Wolves? </div> I would give up Sean Williams, Nenad Krstic and 4 firsts for him...he's only 22 years old and putting up 20 and 10. Don't know if they'd do this but reality is that they're probably 4-5 years out from playoff contention anyway considering how deep the West is.
For the record, I don't think Al Jefferson will ever be as good as Elton Brand. To me he's a second or third best player on a title team, but he's not a good enough player to build around. That said, talking about trading for Jefferson is pointless. Minnesota is never letting go of him.
I don't mind this team as it is. With our draft picks and a couple of FA, we are set to be in the middle of the pack which isn't bad. I'd rather be halfway to the ring than one shot or death.
This whole idea is dumb. Giving up that talent for a Player who is a big ? and not fully healthy is a major risk, I will bet that Rod says no/ I cant beilve some people are ready to throw the whole team for him, thank god you are not the GM.
To a certain extent you have to ask yourself why you root for this team. I remember that classic "Simpsons" episode where Burns hires a collection of ringers to play on the company softball team--there was Wade Boggs, Jose Canseco, Roger Clemens, Ken Griffey, Jr., Don Mattingly, Steve Sax, Mike Scioscia, Ozzie Smith, and Darryl Strawberry--and the regulars like Homer and Karl had to ride the bench for the big game. Do you just root for the uniform at that point? I want to see the young players develop into a cohesive unit. Replacing all the Nets with new players, especially if they are veterans, would be kind of disappointing to me, even if they are all-stars. Obviously, there is gradual change on all professional teams, but the key word is "gradual," with each player living a life akin to a character arc on a tv show. Right now, I'm getting used to a core of Devin, Marcus, RJ, Vince, Boone, and Sean (with possible extended cameos by ancillary parts Diop, Krstic, and Hassell), with the expectation that probably one of them will be gone within a year. Again, a complete revamping of the team is distasteful to me. Ask yourself this: if you could exchange the entire roster with the roster of, say, Phoenix or San Antonio or Boston, would you do it? Why are you rooting for the team at that point? Anyway, like I said, I prefer to build a team through balance and depth instead of with a few superstars surrounded by mediocre talent to fill out the roster. The Nets have tried it that second way and failed, and I don't want to go back to that.
Guys, how can you trade for a guy after a major surgery? You never know whom you're getting until he plays at least a full season. Having acl reconstructed myself and talking to people with similar surgeries (ankles, knees) I can say <u>it's not the same</u>!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Mar 1 2008, 09:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>To a certain extent you have to ask yourself why you root for this team. I remember that classic "Simpsons" episode where Burns hires a collection of ringers to play on the company softball team--there was Wade Boggs, Jose Canseco, Roger Clemens, Ken Griffey, Jr., Don Mattingly, Steve Sax, Mike Scioscia, Ozzie Smith, and Darryl Strawberry--and the regulars like Homer and Karl had to ride the bench for the big game. Do you just root for the uniform at that point? I want to see the young players develop into a cohesive unit. Replacing all the Nets with new players, especially if they are veterans, would be kind of disappointing to me, even if they are all-stars. Obviously, there is gradual change on all professional teams, but the key word is "gradual," with each player living a life akin to a character arc on a tv show. Right now, I'm getting used to a core of Devin, Marcus, RJ, Vince, Boone, and Sean (with possible extended cameos by ancillary parts Diop, Krstic, and Hassell), with the expectation that probably one of them will be gone within a year. Again, a complete revamping of the team is distasteful to me. Ask yourself this: if you could exchange the entire roster with the roster of, say, Phoenix or San Antonio or Boston, would you do it? Why are you rooting for the team at that point? Anyway, like I said, I prefer to build a team through balance and depth instead of with a few superstars surrounded by mediocre talent to fill out the roster. The Nets have tried it that second way and failed, and I don't want to go back to that.</div> That's a great post. And I really agree with pretty much everything you said, which is why my ideas in this thread have always been posed more as questions than as answers. I'm much less about winning a championship than I am about coming to bond with the personalities on a team and seeing their efforts to mesh all those personalities together, hopefully in a way that makes the whole greater than the proverbial sum of the parts. I love it when the guys on the inactive roster are standing and yelling in a close game and when the players coming off the floor make sure to acknowledge those guys just as much as the guys in the rotation. I love it when everybody that comes on the floor finds that minute or two to stamp the game with their own particular talent. I also love knowing that my starting point guard is not the kind of guy that punches his girlfriend/wife in the face or beats a woman up at a frat party or gropes a woman and then threatens to beat her up in a nightclub. With Kidd gone, I am so much more committed to rooting for this team than I was before, even though it's no secret that Vince is my favorite player and the reason I started watching the Nets closely. Which brings me to the point that trades are sometimes important catalysts to improved team chemistry. It's an intangible, yet everyone who's watched the Nets since February 19th can tell that their chemistry is much improved and that the efforts of Diop and Hassell have been highly valued by their new teammates. You could see what Marcus Williams' performances did to keep guys like Carter and RJ believing in the team. And as of last Thursday night, team chemistry took a quantuum leap forward. So, like you, I would hate to give up RJ and two other important pieces of the team. But it's also true that even great team chemistry has a short shelf life if it doesn't produce enough wins or if the ceiling is obvious. And the opportunity to score a guy like Elton Brand may not be an option in the summer of 09. Thus the reason I started this thread.
I can't respond in detail on my phone, but IMO the idea is to win the championship, and the "Dumpy Plan" presented above won't accomplish that.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Mar 1 2008, 12:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I can't respond in detail on my phone, but IMO the idea is to win the championship, and the "Dumpy Plan" presented above won't accomplish that.</div> Brand doesn't get the Nets significantly closer to a championship considering what would have to be traded away and what he'll need to be paid
I can't respond in detail on my phone, but IMO the idea is to win the championship, and the "Dumpy Plan" presented above won't accomplish that.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Mar 1 2008, 12:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I can't respond in detail on my phone, but IMO the idea is to win the championship, and the "Dumpy Plan" presented above won't accomplish that.</div> Thats total crap. We had 3 superstars together at once and won nothing. The fact that we would be giving up young talent for what could be a major and I say a major disapointment is a risk that Rod and Kiki will not take. It's not going to happen, so stop posting dumb ideas.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Josh_Boone @ Mar 1 2008, 12:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Mar 1 2008, 12:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I can't respond in detail on my phone, but IMO the idea is to win the championship, and the "Dumpy Plan" presented above won't accomplish that.</div> Thats total crap. We had 3 superstars together at once and won nothing. The fact that we would be giving up young talent for what could be a major and I say a major disapointment is a risk that Rod and Kiki will not take. It's not going to happen, so stop posting dumb ideas. </div> Is vince still a "superstar" at this point? And was RJ even ever one?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Josh_Boone @ Mar 1 2008, 12:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Mar 1 2008, 12:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I can't respond in detail on my phone, but IMO the idea is to win the championship, and the "Dumpy Plan" presented above won't accomplish that.</div> Thats total crap. We had 3 superstars together at once and won nothing. The fact that we would be giving up young talent for what could be a major and I say a major disapointment is a risk that Rod and Kiki will not take. It's not going to happen, so stop posting dumb ideas. </div> You really don't want to set the standard at stop posting dumb ideas As for the rest of your post, when did the Nets have 3 superstars on the same team in the Thorn era?
