If we dont get LeBron, was it worth it in letting Gordon go?

Discussion in 'Chicago Bulls' started by truebluefan, Jul 8, 2010.

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  1. bullshooter

    bullshooter Active Member

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    And that team wouldn't have made the playoffs without Hinrich coming back and Salmons being acquired. Meanwhile, the next year without BG, and after dumping a slumping Salmons, they still overcame late injuries to Deng and Noah to make the playoffs. It's not even close. The team is much better off today after signing the FA's they have than it was 2 years ago. It's not even close.
     
    bullshooter, Jul 11, 2010
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  2. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Logic fault on your part.

    I do think that Boozer is a better player than Gordon, how's that! However, Rose, Gordon and Boozer is far superior to Rose, Redick (or Korver), and Boozer.

    All that your previous post does is reiterate that the team is better with Gordon and Salmons than with Hinrich and Deng at the 2/3 positions.
     
    Denny Crane, Jul 11, 2010
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  3. bullshooter

    bullshooter Active Member

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    No it doesn't. With Rose and BG, they fail to make the playoffs. How do you come up with anything else?
     
    bullshooter, Jul 11, 2010
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  4. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    It's not a 2 on 5 game.
     
    Denny Crane, Jul 11, 2010
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  5. bullshooter

    bullshooter Active Member

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    You got me there.
     
    bullshooter, Jul 11, 2010
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  6. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    With Rose and BG and healthy teammates (Salmons and Miller were healthy, Hinrich came back from injury), they did make the playoffs. They played the defending champs to 7 games and all those OTs without Deng.
     
    Denny Crane, Jul 11, 2010
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  7. bullshooter

    bullshooter Active Member

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    Yes Denny, but they were something like 10 games under .500 until Hinrich came back and they traded for Salmons and stopped relying on BG to take them somewhere. But without BG they were 4 games over .500 at a similar point in the second half and then traded away players and had injuries.

    And they took a Celtics team missing it's best player to 7 games and BG still managed to get outplayed by a guy almost 10 years older than he is.
     
    bullshooter, Jul 11, 2010
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  8. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    They were without KG, we were without Deng.

    You're still not making a point. Gordon, Rose, Gray, Thomas, and Nocioni (Noah/Thabo bench) really sucked. Though we had a top 5 back court in the NBA. Gordon, Rose, Noah, Salmons, and Thomas (Miller/Hinrich bench) played .600 ball for 1/3 of the season.
     
    Denny Crane, Jul 11, 2010
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  9. bullshooter

    bullshooter Active Member

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    How can you possibly argue that the bulls would be better off paying a guy $11 mil/year that they have to sub out in the final minutes of a game for defensive replacements. At least with Redick they won't absolutely have to call timeouts to sub in a defensive replacement. And they'll pay him $4 mil less a year. And they still have the flexibility to go out and get somebody better. How can you argue with that? Redick even had a better year than BG last year. And he plays off of the ball better than BG does.
     
    bullshooter, Jul 11, 2010
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  10. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    The $10M he got paid last year is meaningless when it comes to basketball. It only matters to Reinsdorf's pocketbook.

    The Bulls didn't call timeouts to sub in a defensive player for Gordon. They wanted him in to shoot free throws with the game on the line, when opponents foul after missing and we get the defensive rebound.

    Given both players' track records, Gordon is head and shoulders better than Redick. Redick is a career .432 FG shooter, .392 from 3pt, 2.7 Ast/36, 0.6 Stl/36, 7.0 PPG scorer, and a 13.0 PER in 4 seasons. Gordon is a career .435 FG shooter, .404 3pt, 17.9 PPG scorer, 3.4 Ast/36, 0.8 Stl/36 and a 16.0 PER in 6 seasons.

    The comparison becomes downright silly when you start counting FTs or FGs made in the final 2 minutes of games, game winning or tying shots, number of double digit scoring quarters, 5+ assist games, 30 pt games, 40 pt games, and so on.
     
    Denny Crane, Jul 12, 2010
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  11. bullshooter

    bullshooter Active Member

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    Lol. You and the last two minutes. This isn't baseball and a .358 % isn't good. Never mind the fact that BG was usually a -3 to -5 heading into those last two minutes. And the bulls don't want or need BG to take those shots anymore because they have Rose....
     
    bullshooter, Jul 12, 2010
    #31
  12. huevonkiller

    huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

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    For last second shots it is, 82games clearly makes that point.
     
    huevonkiller, Jul 12, 2010
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  13. bullshooter

    bullshooter Active Member

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    Not historically good. And those numbers are from mid 08-09. His numbers continued to drop from there.
     
    bullshooter, Jul 12, 2010
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  14. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Do you know what you're talking about?

    I get that you don't like Gordon, but that doesn't make him anywhere near as bad a player as you make him out to be. He's a player with more than one elite NBA skill (scoring and shooting and shooting in clutch time are three elite skills).

    I think he's a borderline star and there are better players. We just never had a better player until Rose came along and there's nothing wrong with having a 2nd best player who isn't some combination of scrubs. Now we have a glaring hole at his position and we let him walk for nothing - I'd be perfectly happy he is gone if we got a better player for him, or someone at least close. No way is Hinrich anywhere close enough.
     
    Denny Crane, Jul 12, 2010
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  15. huevonkiller

    huevonkiller Change (Deftones)

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    http://82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

    Says the league average is .298
     
    huevonkiller, Jul 13, 2010
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  16. bullshooter

    bullshooter Active Member

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    League average is a >1 AST/TO ratio, BG is .25. League average is about 1 FTA to FGM. BG is .5. So BG doesn't get to the line, doesn't create for anybody and turns it over when he does try. Yes, he hit a little bit higher % when he shot through mid 08-09, but he still failed about 2/3 of the time. As far as borderline star goes, that's the dumbest thing yet. He's not even a starter. And you want to pay $11 mil/year for that instead of getting Boozer?
     
    bullshooter, Jul 13, 2010
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  17. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Now you're making shit up.

    Gordon for his career has 1358 assists and 1083 turnovers. Looks like ~1.3 to 1 vs that .25 number you pulled out of your ass. You thinking about his season with Detroit? 166 assists, 118 turnovers, or about 1.6 to 1. Or are you thinking of his last season with the Buls? 279 assists to 200 turnovers, or ~1.4 to 1.

    The league average is 1 FTA to 1 FGM? Where do you get this crap! LeBron was 1 to 1, but he's the best there is. Kobe took .7 FTA per FGM. Melo was 9 per 10.

    Your boy Hinrich was 1 per 4. Deng was 5 per 7. Gordon was 5 per 7 also.

    Gordon started games 2 through 16 for Detroit before he was injured (missed games from 12/7 to 12/26)

    Your favorite superstar, Kirk Hinrich, missed 60% of his FG attempts for his career, so he really sucks.
     
    Denny Crane, Jul 13, 2010
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  18. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Oh yeah, with $30M in cap space and Boozer costing $13M, how is there not enough to have paid Gordon his $10M?
     
    Denny Crane, Jul 13, 2010
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  19. bullshooter

    bullshooter Active Member

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    In the interest of Detente, and since I know everybody is so tired of this conversation and how we continue to go at it, I'll offer you this. If the question had been do you think BG signed at the MLE and coming off of the bench would be better than what the bulls have gotten besides Boozer, I'd say hell yes. But that wasn't the question. It was whether or not the bulls were right to dump BG. And the answer for that is a definite yes given BG's current salary and the bulls current makeup and what the bulls were trying to do. As far as having the extra cap room, they could have just as easily kept Hinrich and his (at this point) much more attractive contract and better fit next to Rose.
     
    bullshooter, Jul 13, 2010
    #39
  20. TomBoerwinkle#1

    TomBoerwinkle#1 Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Ben is a pretty good Steve Kerr kind of 2 guard sharpshooter with a bit more muscle and swagger. Anyone pining for him on the Bulls is suffering from the lowered expectations of watching a series of mediocre Bulls teams during his tenure when he sometimes looked kinda good by comparison.

    Thus far in the post Gordon Bulls era, the Bulls didn't get worse for his departure and the Pistons didn't get better for his arrival. As to the future, "uncertain, it is" as Yoda might say.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2010
    TomBoerwinkle#1, Jul 13, 2010
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