If We Have to Get Rid of Anybody, We Should Get Rid of Don Nelson

You're giving Rowell way too much credit here. He was the one who after all signed Jax to an extension.

He was also the one who vetoed Baron's extension, which IIRC, was something you something you would liked to have happened (correct me if I'm wrong). My opinion on that is Rowell made the right move.

Rowell has made two right moves since being Mr. Big Shot: veto Baron and fine Monta while having the possibility of voiding his contract. Otherwise, the dude has sucked worse than Mullin did when he first became GM.

 

Montgomery is the guy who didn't play Monta or Biedrins.

You're kind of digging yourself a hole here. How do you know that Keith Smart would have handled the Randolph situation better? IMO, Nellie has done a good job with Randolph. How are you going to argue with Randolph's production and attitude now? You're trying to bash Nellie for what Randolph was behaving before he had his little rookie epiphany.

 

Montgomery didn't play Biedrins his rookie years because he was too young and too skinny and too foul prone. But I don't understand why Foyle got burn because he was completely useless for halfcourt and from a rebounding perspective. I remember he opted to use Dale Davis and Clif Robinson as starting centers over Foyle because he was so clumsy and raw offensively. My hope was he'd use Ike Diogu and Biedrins together, but that never happened... which was lame.

As far as Ellis not playing. It must have been his passing fundamentals. Believe it or not but Derek Fisher did have better guard fundamentals than Ellis' rookie year. Derek Fisher could still probably take care of the ball and pass way better than Ellis right now! If we ran Fisher and Ellis against one another in a point guard contest, Fisher would win the bounce pass, chest pass easily. Ellis would end up performing like Stephon Marbury (below expectations for an all-star guard - streetball very few fundamentals type crap).

The difference is in up-temp game you'd want Ellis more because he can get to the rim at will, he can run the floor a lot quicker, and can finish like a bigger player in traffic. He's just super gifted athletically. Also, if Ellis is not gambling on steals or biting on pump fakes or getting lost on screens, he can almost always stay in front of his assignment. He's super quick with excellent balance and recovery going in multiple directions. Just like Biedrins' physical traits (skinny, but very well coordinated and highly athletic for that tall stature).

This draft I'm really hoping we pick somebody that is just ready to play. I don't care about only potential, I want ready to play and potential. Let's get a Lebron or a D. Howard. somebody that has a body and understands how they are supposed to play their position in the nba for their team. No more of this undersized two guard trying to play a one, or a small forward trying to play a shooting guard or a power forward forced to play a center because of lack of small forward skills.

 

CR, you actually made my point. I never had a problem with Monty not playing Monta or Biedrins. They weren't ripe.

Just like Randolph wasn't ripe enough to get burn early in the season. JV is making a point to bash Nellie for not playing Randolph (please correct me if I'm wrong), but at the same time, he would rather want Monty as coach. Doesn't make sense to me.

 

Well, I kinda see where JV is going with the whole nelly-ball annoyance. Here's the thing: the management just destroys what the coaches can work with. Nelly does well with his players (all guards and mostly underweight perimeter big men). Montgomery does well with fundamentally sound team players who understand and can execute in halfcourt offense/princeton offense type schemes. The GMs gave these coaches absolute crap to work with so their systems can actually work. Then it becomes "what system?"

Also, the whole thing could be just chemistry. Too many players just want to shoot the ball with Nelly. Under Monty, very few people could actually create their own freakin' shot which was why halfcourt execution was essential! But neither Nelly nor Montgomery can get these guys to play freakin' D and play in the halfcourt. It's just not what the warriors are and it's not winning ball. I blame the management, but Don Nelson has been especially bad at addressing issues such as rebounding, defensive matchups, and running plays to get the ball inside. He hardly goes through his bigs and I felt he was responsbile for holding back guys or giving up on guys we've had at center and power forward. Until we fill the 4/5 spots with decent guys and get them a good backcourt, we're doomed to be an 7th seed at best.

The whole franchise is just dysfunctional like the clippers.

 

Nellie didn't want Crawford???!!!???!!! At least, admit Nelson made a mistake if you don't believe he's a destroyer of teams.

The Warriors have pegged Crawford as a versatile guard who, although not a pure floor leader, can function well in coach Don Nelson's system while Monta Ellis recovers from ankle surgery and also in tandem with Ellis once he returns.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3717209

And I'm not holding my breath for Monta to become a PG. He did well in his first game back, but then he didn't do so well. I agree it's a tough position for him to learn, but I rather get a PG and let Monta play SG which seems more of a suitable position for him.

Of course, it doesn't satisfy Nelson because you have to be able to play out of position on his teams. I think Crawford is a pretty good point guard as long as he doesn't have to play in a run and gun system. Put him on the Lakers or the Mavs and he'll be another Ron Harper type player.

 

I think Nelson is good when he's winning. When he's losing, he's horrible to be around and is a miserable SOB. Some coaches thrive on adversity, but I don't think that's in Don Nelson's makeup. If Mullin was still GM, then I think he would be able to handle the situation and come up with something to keep Nelson focused. There is no way I believe Don Nelson in his current position will be able to come up anything, but destroy the team Mullin worked so hard to build up. I've come full circle now starting with Run TMC and it's like the same thing is happening again. This time I'll walk away before I'll let myself get sucked up in the Nelson black hole again. I'll still be a Warriors fan, but won't follow them as much as long as we got Cohan, Rowell, and Nelson/Riley three headed monster.

 

Well of course the coach is going to say positive things about a new arrival, especially one that was swapped for Al Harrington. I don't know if Nellie orchestrated the trade (it doesn't seem like it) but he endorsed it.

 

Had Monta not gotten into his Moded accident, Crawford wouldn't be a Warrior. Had Monta been able to stay and work on his game and be in playing shape at the beginning of the season then perhaps he'd be good enough to at least play minutes at the 1 without looking like a high schooler when facing a press.
It became apparent very early on that the only person who could play any NBA minutes at the 1 was CJ (remember Monta wasn't with the team yet). And CJ's an ok backup at best. So they went looking for someone who could play the point. Harrington was crying and whining so his trade value was garbage, leading the Warriors to go get Crawford. They looked at his opt out clause and thought that they'd gamble.
Crawford has grown on Nelly. I think he does like him a bit. However, I wouldn't doubt it if the front office is pushing him so he'll opt out. If they are, that's the 1st good thing they've done all year.
Now there's a TON of speculation in this post. I'm trying to read between the lines. I think a few of you are correct, but the idea that Nelly went and got Crawford for Harrington simply to add another guard to the lineup doesn't really have any merit. You need to put it in context.

 

LOL. You are so in denial Dr. K, but that's okay since you're a Nelson fan . What about his blow up with Al Harrington? Harrington doesn't have problems like that in New York.

If this and if that again. If Nelson and Harrington got along, then we'd still have Harrington and he may be playing at a decent level and still be an expiring contract in 2010. Yet, we have Don Nelson as coach, so who knows how many games he would be sitting out because Nelson cannot develop rooks/sophs like other coaches and has to bench veterans. How disruptive is that of team chemistry???!!!???!!!

You Nelson fan boys have to face reality. After Harrington, Nelson was the one who got into it with Crawford. Again, a sign of a troubled personality if not a drinking problem and soon Crawford will be gone (likely to a bad trade and not an opt out). Before that, Nelson and Mullin got into it and voila Mullin is gone.

As for Monta, Nelson has yanked him like a yo yo for his PG. I don't really like his coaching decision for him at PG, but he's entitled to that. The issue with Monta is more with Rowell and Cohan, but Nelson may find something he doesn't like with Monta and it's the Nelson vs Monta show.

 

No, I'm not in denial. I'm just trying to be objective. I'm glad Al is having a good season in NY. Remember, Harrington is the one who demanded a trade and conveniently had back problems until he was traded. To me, that's unprofessional. If there's a problem, keep it in-house and deal with it like grown-ups. Nellie announced to the world in pre-season that he was going to give Al Harrington all the minutes he wants to prove his worth...this was in light of people wanting Brandan Wright to be our starting PF. It's too bad they had a falling out. Nellie and Baron had a great relationship, so what does that tell you? It tells you people get along with different people and sometimes not. Big deal.

As I mentioned above, Nelson gave Harrington the opportunity to prove his worth. Harrington was adamant that Nellie wasn't the right coach for him and basically refused to play within his system. That was actually music to many people's ears because we wanted Brandan Wright to be our starting PF.

Drinking problem? Dude, you're losing credibility by continuing to bring that up. It's well known that he enjoys cigars and scotch, but how does that make him an alcoholic? You continue to blame Nellie for Mullin's situation, but actually, you need to look at how Rowell and Cohan have handled this whole thing. And for the Crawford thing, you don't know what exactly Nellie said to Crawford, so I don't think it's right for you to say he handled it poorly. All he indicated to him, if the reports are true, is that it would be in the best interest of the ball club if he opted out. We have a surplus of 2-guards, it only makes sense. I don't know why you're so defensive of Crawford. He's not the right fit for our team. We already have chuckers in Jackson and Maggette.

I think you're exaggerating the situation with Monta. He was designated our PG at the beginning of the season BEFORE he got injured. When he was cleared by the staff to play again, Nellie wanted to see if Monta can live up to the PG designation. He saw that he struggled just playing, period. Therefore, he gave him a lesser role. Maybe Monta doesn't agree with it (I think he's the one in denial these days), but I think it was the right move given Monta's obvious struggles.

JV, I respect your opinion and I hope I'm not offending you, but you're beginning to lose credibility with your persistence that Nellie is the global problem to this season. I am open to the idea that he is part of the problem, but we need to look above Nellie.

 

I'd love to see these scenarios that you're talking about on other squads. My bet is that you're looking at rookies/sophs who are mentally and physically mature enough to play in the NBA.

The premise that you're taking as fact is that Nellie is somehow making all of the calls here, even though there are Cohan, Riley, Rowell and Mullin above him. Now we hear that Mully isn't making decisions these days, but the other 3 are somehow doing everything that Nellie dictates? Do you think Cohan (the man who initially fired and hated Nellie) somehow just bows to everything he says?

 

I'll take your last point first. I did not say the problem is solely Nelson. We all know Cohan makes the worst decisions and that Rowell does not know how to run a basketball team. What I was talking about was Nelson making player personnel decisions and his personality and how it rubs people the wrong way. So let's agree to just keep it on that topic.

I agree AL demanded the trade and whined, but there must have been something that lead to him to demanding a trade and that was he didn't get along with Nelson. If Rowell could have stepped in and nipped it in the bud, then their feud may not have gotten to that point. I have to think the truth lies with on both parties -- AL and Nelson. AL was not as productive here and I'm beginning to find out that he's not as bad as I thought. At least in New York, he plays the PF position and isn't asked to play out of position as a center. I don't think that's fair for a coach to ask from a player, to play out of position most or all of the time, especially in the brutal NBA. So, I disagree with your statement that "Nelson gave Harrington the opportunity to prove his worth. Harrington was adamant that Nellie wasn't the right coach for him and basically refused to play within his system."

It appears to me that AL's happy in NYC and more productive and now the Knicks have an expiring contract in 2010. That leads me to believe that we could have gotten more for AL if only we waited until things settled down or if we reached some kind of middle ground between AL and Nelson. In that situation, then we are win-win. After the season, then we could have saw what we could have gotten in return for AL, someone like a Raymond Felton, or kept him one more season as an expiring. Still, I got to believe it was Nelson who pulled the trigger on the trade. There was no reason for Rowell to do it because it did not make sense financially and Mullin was out of the loop. It had to be because Nelson wanted Crawford, and get rid of problem Harrington, at the same time. It turned out to be a big mistake. If it wasn't Nelson, then who was it?

As for Mullin, I already talked about how Nelson gained the most from Mullin being out. Please explain to me "how Rowell and Cohan have handled this whole thing."

We can talk about Monta at another time, but I hope you don't think that Monta was acting unprofessional by visiting his ill mother. It was not the IF situation you were talking about.

 

When it comes to rooks/sophs, I like the way Phil Jackson does it. He puts them in certain situations and gives them minutes at the start of 3Q or mid-way through the first two quarters. He doesn't use them in crunch time unless he had a guy like Anthony Morrow who could bury the 3 for you to put you in a position to win the game. He recognizes their talent and isn't afraid to use it.

This season, I've been watching Larry Brown, who I'm surprised is using rooks/sophs more. Perhaps it's because he has a team like the Bobcats and not the veteran Pistons. He does something similar. You can see the pained expression on Brown's face more, and he takes most things in stride, but he can lay it on a rook if he's not following directions or making the same stupid mistake over and over and caused a bad situation.

Nelson seems more critical of rooks and he should not be so blunt after the game or with the media. I, especially hate, the way he treats Anthony Randolph. Randolph is busting his butt, even though he makes some of the worst mistakes ever. I don't mind Nelson getting upset for some of those mistakes in key situations, but if I was Randolph, I would not want to be playing center. I'm already asked to be the point forward and bring the ball up, but to have to play against centers a lot of time, I would balk. That's not fair to the player at all in getting beat up.

 

Thanks for taking the time to post all of that. I think I can rest in peace with what you wrote

I will respond to the last two points you made, however.

I don't understand how Nellie gained anything by Mullin being out. Nellie didn't become the GM and Larry Riley didn't either. Larry Riley is the assistant GM. Mullin still holds the title as GM. It seems no one has taken credit or blame for the roster moves this season, so I honestly don't know who orchestrated what moves. Three things seem clear to me, however. Rowell vetoed Baron's extension (Mullin went to him for approval and got denied. Also, don't you think Nellie would have LOVED if Baron was here?), Rowell gave Jax his extension (Jax confirmed he held onto the contract for a week and personally returned the executed copy to "Bobby"), and Rowell gave Nellie his extension (Rowell made the announcement).

Nellie didn't gain anything by the way Mullin has been pushed aside except public criticism. To the point that he had to come out and say there's no beef between the two. Could he be lying, sure, but Mullin hasn't said anything.

I don't think Monta was acting unprofessional for taking care of his mom. However, I find his response to all of this "Monta wants out" talk to be inconsistent. The Warriors announced that he needed to rest his "stiff ankle." Now Monta is saying the reason for his departure the past few weeks has nothing to do with the ankle and is using his ill mom as a red herring. Call me shameless for saying that, Monta needs to get his stories straight because they conflict with what the Warriors announced on their website.

 

I think once Monta starts playing again like he can, then all will be well. We'll have to see how he does at the PG position since Nelson said he'll play him there. If Monta can play PG, then I don't see why Nelson is already trying to trade Crawford or get him to opt out. Can you explain Nelson's rationale on that?

As for Nelson being the GM, I think he's doing the player personnel selections so that gives me the willies. For example, he said he wanted Amare. Now that's great if he can get him without having to give up our foundation, but what bothers me is he wants Amare to play center. I think Amare has said in the past the he doesn't want to play center.

 

If this is the case, if there's no proof, then you should probably say "I think" instead of just stating it as if it's a fact in earlier posts as you did in this one.

As for this statement,

It's really simple. Crawford has a huge contract. Nellie ,the front office, and every other person that understands basketball probably thinks that Crawford's contract is too big for what he brings to the table. If you want a scoring point guard that plays no defense, then you can grab one from College, Europe, the D-League, an aging Vet, or off of someone's bench for next to nothing or around the vet-minimum.

1 more point, we read from one source that Nellie asked Crawford to opt out... who really knows how that went down? I don't think any of us have heard directly from any of the parties involved.

 

You mean Nelson's contract is too big for what he brings to the table. He's doing this basically "for the money" as he has said. I mean why does he need even more money? He's already got enough that he can't spend it all.

And you talk about Crawford and his defense? LOL. He doesn't have to play defense because he plays for Nelson. The joke's on you.

For the umpteeth time, Nelson has destroyed teams in the past with his GM maneuvers. Don "Lucy" Nelson tells Warrior fan Charlie Brown that she'll hold the football for him to kick. For the umpteenth time Charlie Brown tries to kick the football and lands flat on his ass as Lucy pulls the football away at the last moment. What is so hard to understand about that?

Instead of going back to what we discussed about Crawford's contract, why don't you explain if Nelson is right in having Monta Ellis as a PG, then what's wrong with Jamal Crawford as his SG? Crawford could play backup PG and would be another ball handler on the floor? That follows his reasoning for trading AL for Crawford in the first place.

 

1st of all, Nellie's contract doesn't count against the cap. So you're arguing using a false premise. A doesn't equal B here.

2ndly, again, you're making a statement that Nellie wanted Monta as his point guard without really knowing what he truly wanted? Have you spoken with Nellie? How about people behind the scenes? You're going to take the non substantiated opinion of a beat writer or two as fact? Kawakami might as well be writing for the "World Weekly" news or "The Enquirer" with his lack of facts. He always has "sources" but refuses to go on the record. I'd think that Nellie would've taken Baron back over Magette and Crawford in a heart beat. Especially considering that he'll probably be retiring in a couple of seasons. Those long-term cap implications really don't matter to him.

Here's a question for you... How many times did Nellie play Monta at the point last year? Even when Baron wasn't on the floor, Jax played point forward most of the time. Does that show that nellie had trust in Monta?

2nd point, We don't really know what Monta would've been able to do at the 1 with an offseason and training camp at the 1. Monta went and rode his moped Dumb and Dumber style and busted his ankle, and somehow that's Nellie's fault? Once Monta went down, they went and got Crawford partially to split time at the 1/2 and carry the load until Monta got healthy. Do you or do you not remember that the Warriors carried 2 other point guards on the roster who couldn't cut it? In fact, they just waived one of them. Somehow the front office didn't really know what to do, Crawford was a band-aid to just get through the first half of the season.

Finally, You can yell and scream all you want about Nellie, you have that right, but making up "facts" that somehow Nellie is behind every move that the Warriors do (especially considering the history between Nellie and Cohan) is pretty ridiculous in my opinion.

 

Here's what Nellie said after the game about the Crawford/Ellis scenario