Those are good names. A couple of more are Thomas Friedman (a moderate liberal who tends to focus on international economic stuff) and Thomas Sowell (a libertarian/conservative economist/writer who happens to be black). One piece of advice, VG: don't take any one column or columnist as perfect. Krugman and Sowell can write things that seem, internally, perfectly clear and reasonable and if you read them in succession they're on the exact opposite side of an issue. Ed O.
As did I, and I was going to reply with heavy approval. Condemning organized religion as a whole is just as inane as the foundation of the Mormon relgion. No, I will not vote for someone who is a Mormon, because like The Professional Fan was saying, until he backed down, it shows a lack of judgement. I've been saying that for a while. I don't want to turn this into a theological arguement that will only result in bitter feelings and a disagreement, but to compare most Christian religions to Mormonism is ludicrous. I know I'm posting this in a northwestern team's forum, so I'll probably catch a lot of shit, but the Mormon religion is two shades away from Scientology. If your choice of religion, the most important decision in your life, is Mormonism, I question your judgement.
I appreciate those who openly admit their thoughts about Mormons and Mormonism. I prefer people to speak plainly, even if I disagree with their positions. I don't have in-depth knowledge of the specific beliefs of the LDS that seem to rankle so many. However, I have known many, many Mormons. I dated one for a few years, went to school and was friends with a ton of them in LO and had one as one my groomsmen. I can say without a shred of doubt they are some of the most decent, upstanding, values-oriented people I have ever known. I am proud to know them, and proud to call them friends. Another way to put it is, dislike the religion if you wish, but love the practitioner. I find it interesting, however, that 52 years after this country wrestled with the idea of a Catholic as President, we're once again confronting religious bias. It seems then-Senator Obama's hurdle as the first half-black nominee in 2008 was lower.
I find the Mormon religion odd also, but if you take away your preconceived prejudices then it’s no more odd than the Christian, Muslim, and pretty much every other religion. The fact is that most Mormons I know are some of the nicest, most family orientated, and accepting people in our country... sometimes to almost sickening level. This is all a moot point however as religion and state are suppose to be separated and no matter how much the Christian fundamentalist zealots scream, we are not a Christian state.
I echo what maxiep and donkiez wrote about mormons. I've known quite a few, and they're all awesome people.
Just to be clear, you're not voting for President Obama, right? He has declared himself a Christian and has attended a church that largely followed Black Liberation theology. Therefore, his belief system is equivalent to Gov. Romney's by your definition.
Yet somehow those who are active in the LDS faith generally seem to do pretty well in life despite their impaired judgment. They also serve in local, state, and federal government, join the armed forces, volunteer huge amounts of time, resources, and money to the community and other countries, run 3 universities at ridiculously subsidized costs (BYU non member undergraduate tuition is $2280 a semester, law school for non-members is only $5300 a semester - beats the $15,000+ I paid at Gonzaga), teach self-reliance and staying out of and getting out of debt as soon as possible (the general standard is try not to get into debt for anything but a house, education and maybe a car, and even in those things, you're told to live within your means and be economical), they work in tandem with the Boy Scouts of America in developing positive traits and skills in young boys, etc. Disagree with the theology all you want, but don't pretend making Mormonism a part of your (the universal you) decision for choosing a political candidate is anything but religious bigotry unless you're saying that Mormonism has helped Mitt be charitable, frugal, responsible, and many other positive characteristics. The real life principles endorsed and taught in the Mormon church, if lived and applied, would make any person a good candidate for political office. On a religious note, what makes the founding of the Mormon church any more insane than the stories in the Bible? An ark with 2 of every animal, a talking burning bush, water into wine, walking on water, raising the dead, people turning to pillars of salt, washing in a river to cure leprosy, river turning to blood, raining frogs? Is someone having a vision (much like Paul, or more accurately, Saul) really that much less believable? Or is it just that it happened more recently than 2000 years ago that makes it less plausible? Politically speaking, I don't care for the healthcare reform. I like some aspects of it, but this is not a great plan for reforming healthcare. I approve of Mitt's statement that he would repeal it. I'd like to see Congress go back to the drawing board on it. I too think that Mitt has credentials as a business person to help improve the economy and balance the budget (his job was to keep businesses afloat for goodness sakes!). Whether either of things would actually happen if Mitt were elected, obviously remains to be seen. I thought the stimulus was a huge waste of money. It could have been a positive thing if it had been used differently, but whatever. Those are two big issues that I think Mitt would improve over what's been done under Obama.
this is pretty much it if we werent all raised christian/catholic for the most part, mormanism would seem exactly as ridiculous as catholocism would to an non indoctrinated mind that said, mormans had/have some strange views on women and dark skinned people until very recently, semi red flags imo
I'm curious what strange views Mormons have had on women? I know what people say about our views on dark skinned people and why they say them, but I'm confused what people think we believe in regards to women. I hear all the time that we're sexist/misogynistic/abusive, but I've never heard anyone articulate how we've come by that label. I know the Proclamation on the Family can ruffle some feathers, but I wouldn't think that would be enough to cause widespread name calling. Is it male only priesthood holders? That's not any different than the Bible. I really am curious. I'm open to people sharing what they think. I'm also curious to get the opinion of those that have associated with Mormons (like Denny, maxiep) on whether they think these observations/accusations are legitimate. Sorry to derail the thread. I tried bringing it back on track at the end of my first post...
To answer your question directly, D-Rock, if I've ever noticed LDS members behaving "oddly", it would be on the side of being a bit "square". In my opinion, the focus on family, charity, thrift and self-reliance are all qualities to admire, not fear. I'm sure there are low character members of the LDS church out there, but I haven't had any interaction with people that would fit that description. In fact, it's amazing to me how uniformally moral the Mormons with whom I've interacted are. I would be proud to call a Mormon my President. By the way, has anyone on this board ever spoken out about Harry Reid and his lack of ability to function as Senate Majority Leader because of his "weird" beliefs?
agree with maxie, mormons are particularly moral and just in mixed company, almost annoyingly so nothing wrong with not being a shitbag though, good for them
I realize you're not saying that, but what are they things you've heard that prompted the comment about women? I assume you've heard or observed something or you wouldn't have mentioned it.
I don't find mormonism any odder than any of the other religions/cults. I'd prefer to have a candidate that doesn't profess to believe in invisible beings and absurd folk tales, but no such candidates are available, since professing such belief is an absolute requirement for so many americans. barfo
I agree with your statement about being "square." No drinking (which pretty much means no clubs or bars although there's no rule specifically against going to either of those places), no smoking, no recreational drugs, no premarital sex, no swearing (mostly anyway ), modest attire, etc. No, no, no, no, can lead someone to be a little uptight. On the other side of the coin, we're taught that we should do what Joseph did when Potiphar's wife propositioned him and run when temptation is near instead of sticking around and trying to tough it out. So, I completely understand when people say Mormon's are cliqueish and avoid socializing with non-members. It's especially a problem in places like Idaho and Utah or other places with high concentrations of Mormons. That being said, I consider my day to day life to be similar to everyone else's, except I choose to spend more time on church things than the average person probably does and choose not to do some activities than a lot of people do.
You're certainly entitled to your preferences, but I doubt there would be much difference (positive or negative) in the performance of the President if he or she was an atheist or agnostic. Sure, religion impacts the way people lien on certain policies, but there are still plenty of religious people that are pro-choice and support gay rights (as a couple examples) and the opposite is true as well.
