I'm So SICK & TIRED of Neil Olshey

Oh and fuck your stupid post.

 

By the way what do you mean? A lot of teams in recent history have made drastic roster hauls and won championships now to be fair it was with HoF'ers and amazing talent and Lebron Wade and Bosh aren't bringing their talents to Portland. Boston is a good example of a team that got rid of their "core" and were able to stay competitive and put themselves in a great position to win. Admittedly those guys we're older, but they still made some trades that weren't all that popular in Boston for a bunch of future assets and that's worked pretty good. All situations are different, though so any situation I point at and say hey this team did this and that and became really good you can point and say well only worked because of (x, y and z), and it's probably true. Look at that Detroit team that one a championship, they made the move of grabbing Rasheed who everyone knew was crazy talented but he had question marks too. A lot of those players no one thought that much of, when they brought them in. The Blazers should have beat the lakers in 2000 and won using the always making changes strategy. I think their are plenty of examples of teams making trades, or being aggressive and doing maybe "questionable" things and being really good.
Even last summer a lot of people didn't think Houston should've got cp3 because it was putting two ball dominant guards together, but Morey has always been aggressive and well they're in the wcf's.

 

Please don't speak for me. I'm 38 so not that old and was born after the title so I've never seen my team win one. I have no problem with rebuilds. I just think it's really short sighted and stupid to give up on a team after 3 seasons. Dame is already the 3rd best player in team history, actually wants to play for the Blazers, will finish in the top-5 in the MVP race, will be either 1st or 2nd Team All-NBA, and you knuckleheads think we should kick him to the curb because he's almost 28 years old? I'll roll with Dame on my team anyday. We'd be super lucky to draft someone half as good as Dame even with the #1 pick.

As for CJ, I can't stand when people post that we need to break up the back court without giving realistic examples of who they'd want for him. If you'd read all the threads on here I've posted several CJ trade ideas that I'd be okay with. I have asked Gronk Brady several times for a realistic player he'd want for CJ and don't see any other than Kawhi who is a super longshot and a one year rental.

Nurk is good. His stats are fairly similar to his Nurk Fever run last year. Some people expect him to be something he isn't. Nurk proved that our back court can be more than okay defensively in the right situation.

I hated the trade up for Collins. I wanted Mitchell if trading up or to take risks on several guys like OG if we stood pat. I immediately recognized what Olshey saw in Collins though. He's very smart defensively, tough, and has the ability to really have a wide array of offensive moves. Some people want lottery picks but then complain about Olshey for getting one despite making the playoffs.

I was the one on O-Live who was posting daily write-ups of other teams and realistic trades we could make with each team. I seem to recall you responding that you enjoyed most of them so I don't get how I only think about minor changes. During the 2016-17 season I posted several times about trades that would allow us to get cap space and rework the whole team around Dame and CJ (including getting Nurk before it happened). I believe in any situation there is always ways to get better. The Spurs haven't had a lottery pick since Duncan over 20 years ago and they always find good players.

 

I was talking about the blow it up method, not just making trades. The Pistons didn't trade any of their main players for Sheed.

The post on Blazersedge that he's probably talking about was comparing Olshey to Morey. As GM Morey didn't do shit his first 6 years. Why didn't the Rockets fire him and blow it up?

 

This is what happened on Blazersedge:

Someone posted:
"But "sitting back" is EXACTLY what the Rockets did, and arguably twice
Before they got Harden, they sat on a bunch of assets for quite a while until the right move popped up. Once they got Harden they got him a second star in Dwight and it turned out that didn’t work out so that sat back with just Harden until found the right move to get Chris Paul.

We just haven’t found our move yet, so we’ll sit back and do what we can rather than make rash decisions to try to win right now. Lot of luck involved though, takes two to tango which is why we missed out on Paul George and Butler. But you never know what might come up."

To which someone else replied by saying:
"The difference is they also have a brilliant GM who knows how to acquire real, tradeable assets to make it possible to complete those right moves.
Our roster is full of non-assets because NO likes to overpay mediocre players that nobody else wants."

To which I said:
"So Ryan Anderson...
@ over $20 million per season the next two years was a brilliant move and a tradeable asset?"

And the guy responded back:
"Good counterexample. But I'm not sure why you'd assume I meant EVERYTHING he does is brilliant.
Generally, he seems much better than Olshey. Fair?"

To which I said:
"Not fair at all...
Morey became GM in 2007. His first 6 years they made the playoffs only 3 times and had one playoff series win (against us in 2009). We just finished Olshey’s 6th year and his teams have 5 playoff appearances and two series wins during that time.

It was in the summer of 2012, after his 6th season, that he traded for Harden right before the season started. So to go back to Apoc’s post about Houston just biding their time Morey hadn’t even reached the Harden trade in their "process" until the equivalent of this summer for Olshey. It’s important to note too that a portion of the Harden trade was the expiring contract of Kevin Martin who was just good enough to warrant trading for with one year left on his deal but the Thunder wouldn’t have taken him if he had more than one season left. Your basically calling one GM brilliant for what amounted to two big trades over an 11 season span while dismissing a GM who has been better thus far in his 6 seasons. That is why patience and continuity is important in my opinion.

Olshey pulled off a big trade while with the Clippers too for Chris Paul. The circumstances were somewhat similar to the Rockets trade for Chris Paul this last summer. He said he’d only sign long term in LA just like this summer he said he’d only pick up his option if traded to the Rockets so the Clippers wanted to get something for him instead of losing him in free agency for nothing.

We don’t know how close Olshey was to pulling off a big trade last summer for Paul George but we do know he at least tried. The Blazers have all their future 1st rounders right now so we have some ammo for trades."

If anything I said in there is factually incorrect please feel free to call me out on it. I just don't get how one person can be called a genius and brilliant and the other one sucks and doesn't deserve to have a job. The grass is always greener.

 

You rang FAMS?

 

@hoopsjock
I enjoyed your trade proposals, if I remember right you were doing them by team's in alphabetical order and it was fun and you obviously understand the salary cap rules really well so yeah I liked them.
I don't think we should give up on Dame, but I also don't think anyone is untouchable either.
In terms of CJ - I really wanted the Blazers to make CJ for Jimmy Butler work before he was traded to Minnesota. I thought Jimmy Butler would fit really well in Portland, and CJ would fit well in Chicago.
Other players I'd be interested in Bradley Beal, Middleton, or if they could get a package of a couple 3 and D players in the vein of Ariza for CJ I'd be fine with that too.
It's been brought up how they got so much better on defense, but it seems to get glossed over how crappy they were on offense, the team didn't pass, they didn't move without the ball, they ran the same play with flare screens on side pnr's about 80 times a game (hyperbole) CJ and Dame both have a tendency to play hero ball, and take bad shots or over dribble. Defense got better but the offense got ugly, they could score because they had two really good scoring options but they did not get good open shots very often.

It seems to me that you believe the Blazers can compete for championships with Dame at the helm, and I certainly think he's really good, but my confidence that he will perform in the playoffs is waning. I saw a stat that of active players with 500+ shots in the playoffs Dame has the 4th lowest shooting percentage of all of them. I believe Dame will end his career as the best Blazer ever, so I to think Dame is worth keeping around the guy is special, but they need a lot of help. I realize they were the 3 seed this year, but it seems like they're at least a couple major pieces away from the big boys.

You brought up the spurs, haven't had a lottery pick since Duncan. Well Duncan went down in the history books as one of the best PF's of all time, as one of the best career's in the history of basketball, they absolutely HIT on their lottery pick. The Blazers haven't been so lucky. Dame is not going to go down as one of the best PG's ever, he just isn't. Injuries killed Oden's career so we missed out on him having a chance to be good AND we didn't take KD.

If you read this thread it does sound like your mantra has been incremental improvement and not rebuilding, maybe some retooling if you can trade CJ to get better, but you at least seem to be against the idea of trading our better players for picks, and it makes sense the draft feels like it's basically luck.

 

After the NOLA series and the last week or two of the regular season, I was pretty annoyed at this team, from the GM to the coaches, to the players. I was in total blow it up and try again in a decade mode. It wasn't rational, or well thought out it was more like venting because it's so frustrating that for my entire life it seems like the Blazers are just an afterthought of the NBA, a nice little playoff team that is just fodder for the real teams. It's annoying.
As I cooled off though and thought through things, I realized that while I do have my issues with Stotts and the Players, my biggest gripe is NO and while I try to be respectful, I just don't believe he's the guy who will get the Blazers where I want them to be. It's not that every move he's made is bad, or that he's the worst GM in the history of basketball. He's had some good moves, and some bad ones (we've all discussed these a thousand times).
The Blazers have "hope", in internal growth with two young big's who show flashes of potential. They have at least one border-line superstar in Dame, and a solid offensive 2g in CJ. Moe played really well down the stretch last year. Baldwin showed some flashes too.

I don't really believe NO is going to take swings at things, it's always "we tried to do this and that" it just never works out. Isn't his job to make it work out? I realize that he has to get a lot of people to agree to make moves he wants, but at the end of the day that's his job.
Most of all though it's his attitude that I'm tired of. Everytime he is interviewed, or does a press conference I feel like I'm listening to a condescending sales person, he talks over people, anytime someone is critical of him, he always comes off as the person who's going to sale you on a rare diamond and you find out it was a fake the whole time. I realize that's part of his job, but my goodness he's grating to listen too, I don't buy into his plan, and I don't know... Honestly assuming PA keeps him, I really hope I'm sitting here in a year or two saying I'm wrong about him, that either the Blazers won a championship or it looks like the Blazers are making significant progress towards one.

I hope Collins fills out, and keeps working and becomes the PF of the future, and that with Aminu, Nurkic and Collins the Blazers end up with a formidable frontcourt to go with the backcourt, it's not out of the realm of possibility.

 

Jeez.

That's almost enough to get me to stop visiting Mrs. HCP.

Almost.

 

Fantastic post. Could not agree more about Olshey

 

I get that people are rubbed the wrong way by NO. But that's just the way he talks. Really. He isn't putting on a show for the media, as hard as that might be for people to believe. He's a native New Yorker who then spent a long time in LA. Its that combination of abrasive, confidence and cockiness. But who cares? So as far as the results, I go back to the fact (which we all know and have mentioned) that GMs go about their business, work hard, are on the phone/computer 24/7 and all they really care about is winning and making the team better. Thats the ego and competitiveness in them. How can people think that Neil, Mr Ego/condescending guy, is also sitting back and not working his ass off to win games?

Trust me, it is life-consuming. Neil swung and missed (Evan, Meyers), no doubt. But I am certain there have been things that he tried to do but was vetoed. This happens to all GMs. So its almost impossible to judge accurately because we know only about what DID happen, and almost nothing about what DID NOT happen.

I am OK with people wanting a change with Neil Olshey. But personally, I have a strong, gut feeling that the next guy up will likely perform at the same level. We would need a shift in mentality at the very top to see a change in this franchises success, along with a series of the perfect moves.

 

Okay Tortured, this is why I feel like I always have to defend Olshey. Posts like this make it seem like Olshey simply chose not to acquire those guys. I appreciate that you actually listed guys though so I'll address each one.

I too would trade CJ for Butler. That is a no brainer. Any GM would do that, even ours who says CJ isn't available. On a side note, I would also have been fine with trading CJ for Dunn, LaVine, and the #7 pick last year. In my write-up for the Bulls I actually suggested trading CJ for Mirotic, LaVine, and a future protected 1st. Do you realize that CJ had a poison pill contract still at the time Butler was traded so it wouldn't even have been possible? It's been brought up several times. The Bulls are notoriously cheap. CJ at over $100 million for four more years was obviously not something they preferred. They took two young guys on rookie deals and the #7 pick in the draft. The best we could offer on a rookie deal at the time was Vonleh, Napier, and Connaughton with the #15, 20, and 25th picks. You do see the difference right?

Beal has never even been mentioned as available. I'll ask you this though, why would another team with a good PG trade their bigger shooting guard for a smaller one? They'd be trading into the same situation you say can't work. I know you didn't mention him but it would be the same with DeRozan. I'm not sure how realistic either of those guys are. I'm guessing based on how this year played out the Wizards would probably like to trade Wall instead of Beal.

Middleton is an interesting one. There is no chance he was available last summer. This year he struggled but really came on at the end. The Bucks were disappointing as well. Middleton is on a super cheap contract for his skill at $13 million. We'd have to take on a bad contract too but even that might not be enough to get him. We've talked about him ad nauseam in other threads.

The team wasn't that much worse on offense, especially when they turned it on over the 2nd half of the season. They finished 15th in Offensive Rating compared to 11th the year before. Net Rating went from 18th to 9th. That to me shows the increase in defense outweighed the slight dip in offense.

As for Dame, when you already have a really good player I just think it's silly to kick him to the curb for an incredibly small chance of getting someone better. Even if we drafted the next Duncan, what if he doesn't want to stay in Portland and we have to rebuild again when he gets good? To me there is a WAY, WAY, WAY better chance of finding the next Draymond Green, Kawhi Leonard, Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker, Rudy Gobert, Greek Freak, or Jimmy Butler outside of the lottery. Then you have that guy AND Dame. There are examples almost every year of guys that panned out. Funny you mention the Oden thing, something Olshey had nothing to do with, but that is a perfect example of why there is no right answer. The Thunder drafted Durant, Westbrook, and Harden in consecutive years, all guys who after this year have been league MVP, and even they couldn't win a title. Drafting that well is extremely tough to do. This is coming from someone who loves the draft and would treat being a GM like it was NBA2k. I am absolutely not against trading our better players for picks. It's why I think the Kawhi trade of CJ, Collins, and a 1st round pick is stupid unless he signs an extension first. If we're trading CJ I want it to set-up our future not destroy it. I want to get picks and/or younger players.

You keep acting like you know me or what I am thinking, you obviously don't. There is no right answers here as every single one of our plans likely leads to NO title. It is the way the NBA works. I just hate when people think that after 3 seasons a team is 100% stuck and can't make a single small move to get better or make a really smart draft pick that turns into a star. Olshey did draft DeAndre Jordan in the 2nd round and has a pretty good history of drafting so I am willing to see what he does this summer. I have said over and over again that if they just re-sign their free agents and their draft pick isn't helpful then I am completely on board with cleaning house. I just feel like this summer is going to be different. Olshey and Stotts for the first time are on the hot seat instead of getting extensions like in the past. Olshey knows he has to make the team better and he needs to.

 

I absolutely never said that any of those guys were available or that a trade made sense, or that it was viable, or would happen. Just listed guys that I thought were "realistic" in the sense that the Blazers could swing CJ for them (it may have taken more or the other team may have needed to add something, I don't know).

I'm in no way trying to act like I know you, but in order to have a conversation even online requires that I at least try to understand what your saying. Which in turns means that I will have to do some reading between the lines, don't you have to do the same when read a post? How do you interpret what other people are saying especially in text form. Seems like I'm going to have to at least try to understand your perspective in order to actually hold a conversation, sure I could be wrong, but that's how communication works. When you read my posts, you're going to have to try to understand what I am saying or you're going to do a bad job of addressing my posts.

When I say "your mantra seems to be", that means as I read your posts in this thread that's what I've taken from it, sure it could be wrong, but that in no way means I'm trying to act like I know you. Means I'm reading your posts and interpreting what I think you're trying to say, it's literally what we all do all the time.

I mentioned the Oden thing just because lottery picks you never know what you're going to get, I realize that Olshey had nothing to do with it.
Most superstars in the NBA came from the lottery even Dame was the 6th pick (a lottery pick), sure there are hits and misses every year at the top and guys who slip who shouldn't have.

Outside of the day or two after the NOLA series, I haven't ever called for Dame to be traded, which I've admitted was stupid, I don't know why you keep bringing it up like I am saying they should trade him for a random chance at the lottery when I clearly let that go a long time ago.
I have mainly called for NO, because I just don't think he's a good GM overall. He's has been ok at the Draft though, so there's that.

I think the dip in offense is just how little easy baskets they got, I keep hearing people say that Dame and CJ looked gassed in the post-season, maybe that's because they spent all year going one on one needing 5-6+ dribbles to get a shot. The "flow" in the flow offense this year was broken, that's why they were last in assists. They weren't terrible on offense, because CJ and Dame are so good on that end of the floor their gonna get some points, but at least to my eye their offense was tough to watch this year, even when they scored.

 

The main thrust of his response had to do with Gronk accusing him of being somehow involved with the Blazers. I think Gronk suspected him of working for the Blaers

It's like I have a twin only my twin knows a lot more than me.

 

The funny thing is I actually agree to an extent with a lot of what hoops says (at least I think do, if I write out what I think he's saying he may just tell me I'm wrong and that I'm acting like I know him...), but whatever.
He is right in saying there may be no "right" answer that leads to a Championship. The road to a championship a lot of the time is luck, you drafted the one guy who happened to be good, or health, or you're team got hot at the right time (this doesn't happen in basketball that often).
Morey and Olshey have both made good and bad moves as GM.

Honestly in a lot of ways, this thread seems to just be running in circles and not really going anywhere a few of us want NO gone now, a few of us are willing to give him more time, it doesn't seem like any one is walking off of their line, so I guess that's that. Ultimately NO has the job until PA says otherwise, so I guess all we can do as Blazer fans is hope that PA / NO / Stotts and the players can all figure it out.

 

Now you are just contradicting yourself. You aren't saying those guys were available or that a trade made sense but then say they were "realistic" in deals involving CJ? This is why I appear so strongly against what you are saying. It doesn't make sense and is unfair to any GM of any team. Basically I see that stance as this player who I want traded because I don't think is good enough should bring back something really good in return.

I would love for us to all understand each other and have respectful discussions. You kept responding to me calling out Gronk Brady and his constant bitching without adding anything to the discussion. Then he makes up stuff about me because he obviously can't defend his stance in a civil manner. You at least try to explain and defend yourself, which I respect. However you keep interjecting into posts concerning myself and Gronk Brady instead of the ones between you and I.

As for Dame you had a whole paragraph about how we won't win a championship with him and how he isn't good enough in the playoffs. I don't get why you would want to keep him when several of your posts are "I like Dame BUT!" Why not just blow it up if that's how you feel?

The offense didn't get easy baskets the year before either. Do you realize they averaged 0.9 assists fewer this year than the year before? That is not some sort of HUGE dip in passing. I do want to ask you though, why do you keep mentioning coach related deficiencies but then say the problem is the GM? Shouldn't Stotts get the blame for the lack of passing, the lack of fast break points and easy baskets, the iso-offense, and the fact the stars were gassed?

 

Here is the bottom line for me: I believe that teams should stick to a plan and that the GM involved should be allowed to keep his job as long as he doesn't make franchise killing mistakes. Guys like Morey, Buford/Pop, and Ainge are successful because they know one wrong move isn't going to cost them their job. They can take risks that often times leads to failure because all it takes is for one of those risks to pay off and they are set. Someone like Bob Meyers in GS basically just took over and continued the path that they already started. Those guys can also be patient and wait for the right moves instead of making rash judgements based on one playoff series (which is exactly Olshey's point but it's tough to defend the way he comes across or says it). Those guys were allowed to see their plans through. The Rockets a couple of years ago with Harden barely made the playoffs as the 8th seed and lost to the Warriors. If they would have fired Morey then they wouldn't likely have a shot at a title like they did now. No one thought Houston was going to be a legit contender after that season. Harden completely quit in his final playoff game last year.

You know how many teams would kill to have made the playoffs the last 5 years? That doesn't excuse their performance or mean I don't want a title because I guarantee I care just as much about it as anyone else in the entire world including the players and management. It's pretty much at an unhealthy level the amount it effects me, ha ha. There is no miracle formula short of getting LeBron on your team and even that isn't going to be a sure thing as he ages. Like Olshey has said time and time again this roster is not a final product. No roster is. Every year there needs to be improvement at all levels. Coaching needs to improve. Players need internal development. Pieces have to be moved for better fitting pieces. The big wild card is the draft. You have to keep adding young talent regardless of draft position and not sacrifice future picks unless it is for someone who could possibly take you over the top. I believe that trading your best players is often just a lateral move. The real title contenders find ways to add a player without giving up their stars. The example I keep going back to is the Spurs because they got Kawhi and added him to an aging roster and it opened up a closed championship window for 6 more years. Yes they had Duncan but he was just shell of his prime by that point. Small market teams like the Blazers need to find their Kawhi or Butler.

Going back to the critical mistakes thing because I know that is going to be brought up, I don't believe Olshey has made a critical one yet. Of course the signings of Turner and Leonard were bad but in the grand scheme of things they aren't really that big of a deal. It's not like they are preventing some big move we could've made if they weren't on the team. The team has plenty of flexibility this summer if they choose to use it and Allen is willing to pay the tax. Again, if the free agents are kept this summer and the draft pick turns out to be of no help with no other moves then I will then say that their needs to be someone new in charge of this thing. I want to give Olshey this summer to see what he can do.

 

I agree with all that ... except the Bob Myers part. He took them to another level. The GM before that was Larry Riley. Never heard of him? Right.

 

I didn't mean that Riley did a good job. What I meant was that when Myers took over he didn't really go crazy in a different direction. He did trade Ellis but that's easier to do when you have Klay Thompson.

 

The bottom line for me is that somebody needs to be held accountable when you have a failure of epic proportions like getting swept by the Pelicans and going down 15+ points in 3 of 4 games... It’s not about a panic move at all for me... what I see is that someone didn’t do their job and it’s unacceptable to fans that no one pays for it... whether it’s Neil or Terry getting fired or trading Dame or CJ... it’s unacceptable that excuses are being made and everything is expected to be forgotten and Neil, Terry, Dame and CJ get off scott free... something needs to change.