<div class="quote_poster">Quoting THE DREAM:</div><div class="quote_post">Question is did you watch the finals....dude hardly ever took it to the bucket, and he shot a bad percentage from the field and a horrible percentage from the 3 point line, any 7 footer who doesn't take it to the paint and cracks under pressure on the biggest stage = soft in my books....and yes he lost Nash and a over the hill Finely, but he had Terry, Howard, Stackhouse, etc. also around him.....and imo they played well enough for them to win this series, but Dirk didn't play like he needed to, plain and simple Yes "if"...."if" Dirk would've played like a superstar Dallas might have won....but that didn't happen....this is reality we're talking about....not if.</div> I just don't think you can call a player soft and not a franchise player for a series in which he still avg 23 ppg and 11 rpg. Yes, he wasn't as good as he normally is, because of great D by Haslem and Posey. Give him a break, everyone has a bad series. It's obvious that he didn't have a great series and was disappointing, but to tear down his entire season accomplishments for basically 4 games is just ridiculous. You say any 7 footer that doesn't take it into the paint, how many 7 footers can drive to the paint? Don't most of them just camp out there and have to rely on someone else to give them the ball in the paint? I mean Dirk normally hits those jumpers, he definetely shoulda taken it to the hole. btw about a previous post, NO WAY IN HELL does anyone pick Yao over Dirk to build their team around. You can argue about Tmac/Dirk, but not Yao over Dirk.
to be honest I thought the Mavs were kind of fortunate to get past S.A., I mean they DID win, so I have to give them credit, but Manu made a stupid foul on Dirk which sent that game into O.T.....with that being said I think Dirk needs to develop some kind of post up game, because there's no way a 6'7 guy should be able to contain him like Tmac, Posey, and Haslem have. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You can argue about Tmac/Dirk, but not Yao over Dirk.</div> Dirk had a really good team around him and I think he fits good in the scheme of things, but a 7 ft guy who doesn't have a post up game isn't someone who'd I'd build my franchise around....big men are hard to come by in the league today....anyways this isn't about Yao vs. Dirk, this is about Dirk being soft on several occassions throughout his career. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">how many 7 footers can drive to the paint? </div> to be honest he doesn't have blazing quickness, so I think his "driving" to the paint is a little overrated....he's a jump shooting big man for the most part, and when it's falling it's good, when it's not........well you saw what happened.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">He didn't get shut down ... 23 points a game with 53% scoring efficiency isn't that bad. Much better, in fact, than what Duncan did the year before in the Finals when he won Finals MVP (21 ppg with 47% scoring efficiency). </div> Shooting 39% from the field and 25% from 3-point isn't going to cut it. That's pretty mediocre.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">with that being said I think Dirk needs to develop some kind of post up game, because there's no way a 6'7 guy should be able to contain him like Tmac, Posey, and Haslem have.</div>just to point something out. None of those guys are 6"7". Haslem and Posey are around 6"9" an TMac is 6"10" (which i guess makes him even more amazing, but that's another thread..) One.
T mac = 6'8.....he has long arms....Posey isn't 6'9, he's about 6'7 or 6'8.........and you're right about Haslem.........either way a 7 FT, can't let that happen
I think it had more to do with Dirk not playing well and not driving to the basket enough (whether it was nerves or something else) than Haslem or Posey shutting him down. He had Bowen on him in the Spurs series and he still shot 53%.
I agree Posey and Haslem played good D on him, but come on....he's supposed to be one of the top 5 players in the leauge....do you think Wade, Bron, Kobe, Duncan, Tmac, AI, Nash, Amare, etc. let some role players basically make them a second fiddle player???
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Eclipse:</div><div class="quote_post">Shooting 39% from the field and 25% from 3-point isn't going to cut it. That's pretty mediocre.</div> You're ignoring the fact got to the free throw line a ton, and he shot 89% there. As I said before, overall scoring efficiency (while down for him) was at about the league average. I'm not saying Dirk didn't have a poor series by his standards. He did, obviously. But even when he's not playing well, he's still one of the best players in the league. You can't say that about too many players.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting THE DREAM:</div><div class="quote_post">Yes "if"...."if" Dirk would've played like a superstar Dallas might have won....but that didn't happen....this is reality we're talking about....not if.</div> I'm just saying if Dirk played exactly the same way that he played. and There were 3 really close games won by Miami (1 pt loss, 2 pt loss and a 3 pt loss). If Dallas had won two of those three, which was very possible. I think the criticism would be on Shaq, and praise would be on Dirk. For the exactly same performances.
He really didn't look like one of the best players in the league in this series...he looked like a guy who couldn't hit from the field and shot a good pct. from the FT line. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm just saying if Dirk played exactly the same way that he played. and There were 3 really close games won by Miami (1 pt loss, 2 pt loss and a 3 pt loss). If Dallas had won two of those three, which was very possible. I think the criticism would be on Shaq, and praise would be on Dirk. For the exactly same performances. </div> But you WON'T win in this league when your best player, plays above average basketball....and no, if Dallas would've won this series with Dirk playing the way he did (which isn't going to happen) then J. Terry should've got the MVP.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">T mac = 6'8.</div> is he?? ...just wanted to point that out.
well Posey and Haslem who are both around 6'8 and 6'9 and who are role players still shouldn't be able to do what they did to Dirk....he's still a soft boy...lol
It's unfair to label Dirk soft or not franchise worthy because he didn't have phenomenal games in the finals. I don't understand how you could not think he's clutch, he's hit several clutch shots in the finals, unfortunately they were overshadowed by Wade and by the fact that the Heat came out on top. Did the Heat's physical pplay affect his game? Yes. Can he get more aggressive? Yes. Is he soft? No. I think it's really easy for us to criticize and place the blame on him, when the truth is, the Heat did a good job defending him, yet he still put up very respectable #s.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting THE DREAM:</div><div class="quote_post">well Posey and Haslem who are both around 6'8 and 6'9 and who are role players still shouldn't be able to do what they did to Dirk....he's still a soft boy...lol</div> And role players win championships... they were very physical and affected Dirk's play and did a good job overall, but Dirk still put up very good numbers. I understand if you think he has room for improvement and he's not THE franchise player, but I don't understand how you can call him soft and think so little of him.
Dirk made Memphis, SA, and Phoenix all look stupid. Clutch play after clutch play, a 50 POINT GAME. Come on. Maybe instead of a soft player who isnt clutch, we should call him a poorly conditioned player who got tired 4 rounds into the playoffs. The difference between him and AI, Bron, Duncan, Amare, Kobe, TMac, Yao, etc. are that they didnt get their teams to the biggest stage to even have a chance to look good or bad. The Mavs were supposed to be a little better than average this year and he literally carried them on his back all season. Dirk played against great defenders in Battier, Bowen, and Marion and made them all look horrible. People seem to forget all that.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting slpnsld23:</div><div class="quote_post">I think Dirk is soft too. You see him whine and give his little temper tantrums all through the playoffs. He never comes through when the Mavs need him either.</div> wtf?? i don't think i've ever seen Dirk whine that is news to me. In the Dallas Miami series, I would put just about every player on the Heat team as a bigger whine than Dirk. I think a lot of people don't understand that Dirk learned this game in Europe as more of a team game, not a one-on-one game. He has it ingrained in him that if he is doubled TO PASS. Kobe and some other players see being doubled as an opportunity to show people how dominant they are individually. DIrk sees being doubled as "there's somebody open, no point in me taking a low percentage shot". If he goes to the basket three times, gets blocked or sent to the floor, no foul called, you can't blame him for then going to the fadeaway J, he knows he can hit those shots. that's not being soft, that's playing whatever way you think you're going to be most effective. I think he plays with his head a bit too much, but he's not soft at all.
Also, those "Temper tantrums" might not be a bad thing. At least he cares whether or not his team wins. Most NBA stars would just shrug it off; early vacation. Being soft and whining have nothing to do with one another.
When most people describe Dirk's offense they say that he's "too quick for the slower/bigger defenders, and too strong for the quicker/smaller defenders." I think the Finals showed that this is wrong. Specifically, Dirk hasn't developed enough of a post game to take advantage of quicker/smaller defenders. Udonis Haslem/James Posey were able to beat him to the spot on defense, so he was basically forced to post up. What I usually saw was Dirk try and back them down, give up before he got good position, and either force up a bad shot or pass out. Against the Spurs he was able to beat the opponent off the dribble for most of the game. The Suns bigs were fast, but much too undersized to get in the stop him. Defenders like Posey/Haslem though, who possess a great combination of strength and speed, exposed his inability to post up to create oppurtunities for himself.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And role players win championships... they were very physical and affected Dirk's play and did a good job overall, but Dirk still put up very good numbers. I understand if you think he has room for improvement and he's not THE franchise player, but I don't understand how you can call him soft and think so little of him.</div> I wouldn't call his numbers "very good"....when you only score 2 points (from foul shots) in the 4th quarter of an elimination game in the NBA Finals, you are a soft boy.
