Injury Excuse Propaganda

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Neil O. Shyster, Dec 29, 2019.

  1. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Well-Known Member

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    Dame vs Steph is an interesting comp. I think Dame is a better all around player then Steph, however when it comes to shooting I have never seen anyone better then a couple of the years Steph had, he was incredible. He’s consistently shot a much higher percentage from 3 then Dame has too. I think Dames better at attacking, and has never had anyone close to Klay’s level to play with.
     
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  2. bobf

    bobf Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, even if you argue Dame is as good as Steph still Dame + CJ is not Steph + Klay and is much more unbalanced - worse defense, more take turns ISO, less synergy.
     
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  3. bobf

    bobf Well-Known Member

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    Thanks!
     
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  4. bobf

    bobf Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I could have put that. To be fair I don't think CJ is as bad as his BPM says. His RPM is +3.23 but that's not at all trustworthy for just 2/3 a season. I'd say he's somewhere in between. If you look at CJ's history of advanced stats, he's somewhat above average and no where near worth his contract. I do think he's a better player in the playoffs when scoring get's tougher. His lowish efficiency shots become better shots in the playoffs.
     
  5. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Well-Known Member

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    I've always seen Dame as a mix of Westbrooks athleticism but not to that level and Stephs shooting but not to his level. Which turns out is a really, really good player who maybe isn't as "elite" as those guys in one phase of the game but over all might be better than both. The thing is CJ is not even relatively close to Klay in my mind, they have much different games but Klay is an elite spot up shooter, has the size to guard 1-3 and guards at a good level. I don't think he's a star without the "system" around him and the role he gets but of "3&D" types I think he's one of the best ever. He's actually kind of the opposite of CJ in terms of styles. -This isn't meant as a dig at CJ though I know it'll get taken that way.
     
  6. bobf

    bobf Well-Known Member

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    I think Dame is not quite at Steph's level but at the same time he's been chasing him starting a few years behind and he's been gaining ground. Klay in that system sometimes looks like a role player (a very good one) but I've also seen games when KD and/or Steph were out he really can step it up and be the man.

    Klay is the kind of player, the better your team gets, the more value he brings. On any team I'd rather have Klay over CJ of course, but the better my team is the more I want Klay over CJ. On a crap team that can't score, CJ will get you a half-ways decent shot. But on a good team, CJ's shots are inefficient, and outside of scoring what does CJ bring? Don't get me wrong, I like CJ and am not a "trade CJ" guy (it depends on who you could get!). He is what he is. Above average.
     
  7. Propagandist

    Propagandist Well-Known Member

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    Dame is way better this season though...
     
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  8. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Well-Known Member

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    Well Stephs been great at cheerleading! :)
     
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  9. bobf

    bobf Well-Known Member

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    I don't know why we let Skal go. In my mind we had a great core building:
    Nurk, Hassan -- TOTALLY set at center (too set).
    Zach, Skal -- SET at PF
    Trent, Ariza
    Dame CJ

    That's one elite player, 2 very good players, and 4 above average players. 48 minutes of 2+ respectable to great interior defenders. We just needed a couple more decent players.
     
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  10. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Well-Known Member

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    I think if CJ was given the reigns of a team he’d look much better. I honestly believe the team has coached him into dribble, dribble ... still dribbling, shoot. It is probably what he’s best at but weve seen him when Dame is out play quite a bit differently. I think in the right situation he could maybe look like an allstar off in the east somewhere. I mostly agree Klays is basically just better and his strengths allow him to slot into a “role” better than CJ’s strengths.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020
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  11. blazerfan11

    blazerfan11 Well-Known Member

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    Kla
    Klay also fits into a rotating defense scheme better than CJ.
     
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  12. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Well-Known Member

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    So do most NBA players. heh. :).
     
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  13. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    the whole Skal "issue" is a head-scratcher. I get the desire to save money. So it was a short-term move, trade away the injured player in favor of the healthy players; save money and put the 'healthiest' option on the floor for the rest of the season

    but this season is a lost cause, IMO. It's been bop-a-mole with injuries all year long and it looks like the only thing that will break that cycle is an off-season. An 8th seed and getting crushed in the playoffs is not the optimal result for the rest of the year.

    and then there's next season. Portland has 2 players over 6'8 on contract next season, and both of those are injured right now; and one of them is building a worrisome injury history. Skal is going to be RFA and will very likely not get more than 3M or so, if that. He would be a cheap backup big, and he's a decent rebounder carrying good efficiency. He's also rather versatile because of his mobility. To me the only reason not to hold on to him is that he is headed for chronic knee problems because of his meniscus injury
     
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  14. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, this is part of the reason why I'm so bothered by the Skal trade. They said they weren't going to do anything this season that made them worse long term. Isn't that exactly what trading Skal did though? Whether Skal ever becomes a decent rotation player or not, he still at least had the potential to do so. Guys like Hezonja and Swanigan will not. I get that Skal isn't healthy right now but trading him and not signing a healthy body in his place doesn't change the amount of healthy players. I would've understood if it got us out of the tax, but it didn't.
     
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  15. Blazers Roy

    Blazers Roy Well-Known Member

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    With our fucked up gameplan even Steph and Klay would lose.

    Watch Warriors games. The key for their success is goons taking rebounds and getting defenders out of the way for Steph and Klay. That's why they are "open" so many times.
     
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  16. SIeepwalker

    SIeepwalker The lone sane poster

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    Great, now I'm mad Neil paid Atlanta to take Skal again
     
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  17. bobf

    bobf Well-Known Member

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    Here's the same analysis applied to next year. For young players I used their latest BPM. For seasoned players I used a weighted average of their last three years.

    Probably hopefully this is a conservative estimate of our players:
    - Nurk's last season BPM was +5.1 whereas I used +3.4 weighted average.
    - Hassan's current BPM is +3.1 but I used +2.0 weighted average.
    - Ariza is currently +1.8 but I used +0.3 weighted average.
    - Zach should be underrated at average.
    - Trent, Little, Ant should all be improving.
    On the down side it's pie in the sky to expect our top 9 players to play all 19,680 minutes like I did. In 2018-2019 our top 9 players played only 16,600 minutes.
    A lot depends on Ant, Little and the "bunch of guys" who fill out the bottom of the roster. If we still had Skal this would look a lot better.

    Blazers Projected 2020-2021.PNG
     
  18. kjironman1

    kjironman1 Well-Known Member

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    Boy this post is aging well don't ya think?
     

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