insider Warrior draft pick

That's why I think sometimes Taft could be misunderstood. He doesn't really get the ball, but at the same time he doesn't really assert himself by calling for it.

 

When I saw Taft,he got the ball,but just passed it back out. It looks to me like he lacks a variety of moves and relies on getting matched against a small guy. Potential? I never saw the advanced skills or the desire to give me much sense he's more than a backup. Defense? Shooting? Boards? Creativity? Don't be too surprised if he lasts to mid/late rd 1 and some team,even then wonders in a few years why they wasted the pick. I think he will eventually get his head togather,be a decent backup,but no "Force in the Paint" like some imagine. Frye has potential,in that he has shown he has some good skills AND he works on improving his game. "Potential" is often draft-talk for ain't done nothin' but MIGHT get inspired someday. Too desperate,let the Clippers play that game.

 

I don't think Taft will be as bad as former clippers #1 overall, Michael "Kandiman" Olowakandi or worse than Chris Wilcox, but he'll be one of these guys that is very inconsistent, like Kwame Brown, only softer, bigger hands.

 

Diogu,like Bogut or Sean May was a much different player in this season from a year earlier. in his case, he dropped a bit of weight,added shooters touch with some range. Anyone who pays the dues,works,learns,can continue to add to the toolbox. Height does not put a hard limit on a guy's ultimate abilities. Barkley is the classic case,before him,Elgin Baylor. Now we have Amare,Ben Wallace,Shawn Marion-all play much "bigger" than their true size.
Frye is interesting as he is 6-11,is a guy with pretty good game now and the work ethic to keep improving. Frye's game is smooth,flowing,more like Karrem was,Diogu is a tiger,relentless,tough,high energy,like a 6-8 Amare. Diogu is a guy who right away can add a lot,and could emrge as a star. Frye can also play now,though perhaps with less impact,but he could evolve into a center,maybe a real good one. Frye,if seen as a C,has far more developed skills than anyone but Bogut in this draft. If he builds up physically,while refining the skills he has,there is good potential. If he does not add bulk,power,he still can be a quality power f. Both guys at least can be seen in detail,as college stars,so those of us who caught a few of their games can compare to other college talent,past and present. Euros and HS guys are only able to be compared to their peers-which are,talent wise,less consistant. We may be able to rank a guy as the second best HS F,or international F,but how does that relate to the better college F's? That is the trick.

 

Amare Stoudamire and Shawn Marion happen to be just freaks because they amazingly athletic and strong. Ben Wallace isn't that bad himself in the athletic department, but he is mostly known for his strength.

Diogu I think is supposed to be as strong as Zach Randolph which is pretty good, but he's almost supposed to be a little more athletic than him (Randolph kind of seems like a sloth but he's pretty strong and coordinated). It's all in the footwork anyway and throwing his wide body to create separation. If Diogu's footwork is as good as they say he should go a bit higher, given the fact that most big men don't really use their footwork since they have either relied on their athleticism, are not very strong or they are too stiff and uncoordinated to do it.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting REREM:</div><div class="quote_post">Diogu,like Bogut or Sean May was a much different player in this season from a year earlier. in his case, he dropped a bit of weight,added shooters touch with some range. Anyone who pays the dues,works,learns,can continue to add to the toolbox. Height does not put a hard limit on a guy's ultimate abilities. Barkley is the classic case,before him,Elgin Baylor. Now we have Amare,Ben Wallace,Shawn Marion-all play much "bigger" than their true size.
Frye is interesting as he is 6-11,is a guy with pretty good game now and the work ethic to keep improving. Frye's game is smooth,flowing,more like Karrem was,Diogu is a tiger,relentless,tough,high energy,like a 6-8 Amare. Diogu is a guy who right away can add a lot,and could emrge as a star. Frye can also play now,though perhaps with less impact,but he could evolve into a center,maybe a real good one. Frye,if seen as a C,has far more developed skills than anyone but Bogut in this draft. If he builds up physically,while refining the skills he has,there is good potential. If he does not add bulk,power,he still can be a quality power f. Both guys at least can be seen in detail,as college stars,so those of us who caught a few of their games can compare to other college talent,past and present. Euros and HS guys are only able to be compared to their peers-which are,talent wise,less consistant. We may be able to rank a guy as the second best HS F,or international F,but how does that relate to the better college F's? That is the trick.</div>

If we are going to talk about undersized PFs I would rather take Wayne Simien...

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Warriorfansnc93:</div><div class="quote_post">If we are going to talk about undersized PFs I would rather take Wayne Simien...</div>
At #9?????

 

My undersized PF rankings! Requirements: must be 6'8 or lower without shoes and have good post moves to go on this ride.

1. Ike Diogu, 6'7", 245
   Why is he the best undersized PF? Because if you don't have size, you need skill and heart. Diogu has the best skills out of the group, with all the fundamentals, including the post game and facing the basket and defense (he does need to work on passing though). Further, he's one of the hardest workers, leaving it all on the floor. He could probably use a bit more muscle, but he's pretty strong as it is. He's been working out with coaches to improve his agility. In my opinion, the best defender of the bunch.
2. Sean May, 6'8", 260
   May is another strong forward who dominated in the NCAA championship game. The problem is that as the team's C, he hasn't shown me enough to prove he has the versatility to move to PF. He's obviously got strength, but not much in terms of athleticism. His offensive game is limited to the post only. Also a little weaker on defense, and his lack of quickness will prove hurtful. Consistent improvement in most areas of his game is promising.
3. Wayne Simien, 6'8, 255
   Simien, much like May, has an outstanding post-up game and great strength. He's also one up on May with his shooting range and midrange game. Pretty good defensively in the post, and definitely a great rebounder, but lack of agility and speed is problematic as with May, hurting his ability to provide help defense.
4. Hakim Warrick, 6'8", 210
   The lightweight of the group, probably making the move to SF since he's got the athleticism and speed to do so. But ranking him as a PF, he's obviously in need of weight and size to bang, and his midrange game is weak even for a PF. On the other hand, he's got an excellent post-up game and his defense is outstanding.
5. Linus Kleiza, 6'8", 235
   Excellent offensively either from inside or outside, but poor defensively. Not for lack of effort, though, as this guy chases for loose balls and rebounds like his life depended on it. He's not extremely strong nor extremely quick, although he is smart which helps a lot to compensate. He's the type to be a fan favorite if he got a spot on any roster.
6. Ryan Gomes, 6'7", 240
   Excellent in the post and working hard on his range to prove to scouts that he can make the jump to the SF spot. Handles the ball pretty well as he worked on it the past two years extensively. Questionable defensively as a SF, though, but adequate when defending the post.
7. Jason Maxiell, 6'7", 250
   Superior defensive presence, strong and tough, good shotblocker. Limited offensively, but he's got adequate post moves at least. Obviously, needs a lot of work, and already being a senior, you have to wonder about his potential.
8. Lawrence Roberts, 6'9", 240
   Good post up game, some face-up game, average defensively. Not much improvement over his college career, although a lot of consistency, and lacking the physical tools of successful, slightly undersized NBA PFs (wingspan, atheticism, strength, skills).
9. Taylor Coppenrath, 6'9", 250
   Skilled offensive player from the post and midrange, good rebounder and smart kid, but questionable strength and athleticism for the NBA.
10. Pops Mensa Bonsu, 6'9", 240
    Raw, athletic, fast. Huge leaping ability. Needs to build strength and learn fundamentals to be good defensively, although he's already a good shotblocker and knows how to get to the rim.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">At #9?????</div>

I like Simien. He reminds me of Kmart when he was at Cinci...

 

Zhone has it about right-though you should have said 6-9. May dropped quite a bit of weight to get where he is. I see him playing at closer to 250,and being more toned as well as quicker. Diogu played a bit lighter than a year ago and it let him show some SF mobility and he improved his range. I'd be a little higher on Simien if it weren't for a history of injuries,but if that's behind him he will be a real quality pro. I've seen Maxiel listed as 250,but I suspect 240 is more likely,like K-Mart,has a quick leap,major wingspan and is most impressive on D,rebounding. His shooting range is limited,but he plays tall. Warrick will wind up a SF,while no perimeter threat,he is a great slash and drive scorer,can use quickness to get a midrange J off. Gomes and Roberts are going to be round 2 bargains because both score and rebound consistantly.
In the middle of round 2 some team will be pondering an import who scored 7 pt a game vs questionable competition-and they will look at Coppenrath's numbers and decide not to worry about how he scored 24 a game....

I cruised a number of mock drafts and its kind of peculiar what a wide range there is. Some guys have moved 10 spots,though they haven't played in several weeks,One will have a guy roun 1,while another has him a late #2 Hoopshype does have the stats on the Euros listed as round 1. Pretty amazing how a guy with "Great Shooting Touch" can't get over 5ppg. Looking at Petro's numbers,relative to,say,Luke Schenser,who at best is a late rd 2,leaves me baffled. He needs 2 or 3 years to get to where Olowokandi was in college. Hope the Knicks take him.

 

The times I saw Diogu play I was quite surprised at his D, he blocks shots and plays solid overall D with quick hands. I then heard the ASU coaches had asked him to be kind of conservative on D,not risk getting in foul trouble because without his offense and rebounding,they had no chance. Kind of like running a Nascar race with the handbrake on...yet he still was among the best defensive F's I saw. Check out how many free throws he shot this season...mindblowing.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Warriorfansnc93:</div><div class="quote_post">I like Simien. He reminds me of Kmart when he was at Cinci...</div>
He kind of reminds me of Marcus Fizer. His stock has probably fallen due to his shoulder injuries. Plus harder to figure out what the 6'8 power forward translates to in the NBA these days.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting REREM:</div><div class="quote_post">The times I saw Diogu play I was quite surprised at his D, he blocks shots and plays solid overall D with quick hands. I then heard the ASU coaches had asked him to be kind of conservative on D,not risk getting in foul trouble because without his offense and rebounding,they had no chance. Kind of like running a Nascar race with the handbrake on...yet he still was among the best defensive F's I saw. Check out how many free throws he shot this season...mindblowing.</div>
How tall is this guy really 6'7 or 6'8? I'm afraid this guy will be like Malik Rose rather than a defensive version of Zach Randolph. It's all about the matchups once he makes the jump to the pros.

Also I do like Zhone's list of power forwards. Very informative.

I'm not really sold on Warrick as a PF or a SF, though but I'm sure he can come in handy as one of these guys you can't keep off the glass while the real power forward steps out to shoot perimeter shots.

 

Warrick would fit on a team that lacked a really good low post presence, for example, the Pistons. Ben Wallace is crazy in the paint but you can't dump it into him, you have to hope he grabs the offensive board, and Rasheed likes to hand around the perimeter. So, sometimes they invert the offense and let Tayshaun Prince go inside and he's been their post presence. Granted, he's 6'10", but he's really skinny and he guards the other team's guards occassionally. Warrick can be that kind of guy, I think...except without Prince's outside game. But he can work on it, just like Prince worked on his inside game; Prince was only really a midrange shooter when he came out, I didn't even foresee the NBA 3 point range that he'd develop. Of course, it's a risk to say that a guy will develop those things.

 

I saw a game where Warrick got 30+,many on those drives like Pietrus got late season. Warrick spots opportunities,can jump,can adjust in midair. Diogu lead the Ncaa in FT's made,Warrick lead in Ft attempts,but didn't match Ike's 80%. Getting to the line a lot is good.
West Virginia 6-11 C Kevin Pittsnogle declared-a surprise. If he stays in he is a decent overall player and a first rate shooter who is far more NBA ready than any of the tall-teen imports-including Vasquez who is not a teen anymore. With him,and Dwayne Jones declared-if they stay in-there are a couple of 6-11 guys who seem to be getting way underated so far,though the NBA may like them more than any mock draft sites,or at least those that don't watch guys play. Jones and Pittsnogle have shown more desire and skill than Taft,rate just a bit under Frye. That's my view.
Again,Diogu has a lot of Malik Rose's better qualities,but Malik played at Drexel,not in the Pac 10,Malik was not one of the Ncaa's top scorers,didn't set a pac 10 record for FTs made. Malik was a rebound machine in college,at least 3 years of well over 10per game and guys who board well in college - board well in the pros. Reggie Evans or former Warrior Larry Smith are good examples, in college they were great rebounders,were not rd 1,because teams were so sure some 6-10 guy who averaged 6 boards in college would rebound more. Compare career rebounds for Shawn Bradley and Charles Barkley-Barkley is 12" shorter.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">He kind of reminds me of Marcus Fizer. His stock has probably fallen due to his shoulder injuries. Plus harder to figure out what the 6'8 power forward translates to in the NBA these days.</div>
If a guy can have enough 20 rebound games,hes big enough. If he never has a 10 rebound game,he's too small. Generally getting boards is a major part of the PF job,and Simien has shown plenty. He also can score, his past injury will get considered,but he had a good enough year,it won't be a big issue. If it was a question of who I consider the 10 best prospects, Simien would be on that list and several guys said to be top ten,usually (mocks,rumors etc) would not.Simien is totally a power F. Frye or Williams might play a couple of frontcourt slots ,May likely could play some C,as could Sheldon Williams were he in the draft. I tend to like multi-role guys,even if some call 'em tweeners. Most players on the W's played 2 roles-positions,with Dunleavy plaing anywhere but C. It lets you create matchups.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting REREM:</div><div class="quote_post">If a guy can have enough 20 rebound games,hes big enough. If he never has a 10 rebound game,he's too small. Generally getting boards is a major part of the PF job,and Simien has shown plenty. He also can score, his past injury will get considered,but he had a good enough year,it won't be a big issue. If it was a question of who I consider the 10 best prospects, Simien would be on that list and several guys said to be top ten,usually (mocks,rumors etc) would not.Simien is totally a power F. Frye or Williams might play a couple of frontcourt slots ,May likely could play some C,as could Sheldon Williams were he in the draft. I tend to like multi-role guys,even if some call 'em tweeners. Most players on the W's played 2 roles-positions,with Dunleavy plaing anywhere but C. It lets you create matchups.</div>
Yeah but multi role players could be like Dunleavy in that they are jack of all trades, master of none. Donyell Marshall played two positions, small forward or power forward, same with Antwan Jamison. The problem with these "mismatches" is they create a mismatch for themself on defense if they aren't quick enough or aggressive enough. I'd rather have a player that plays one position and is the mismatch to begin with being both strong, big, and fast. It's sort of like how the way Baron Davis and Jason Richardson are. A good blend of physical skills to go with their bball skills. A guy like Pietrus and Zarko are relatively quick and tall for their positions. Pietrus is a true 6'6, I believe, can around a lot of players in a blink of an eye and Zarko is so coordinated, quick he can step around power forwards or small forwards and shut shoot right over people.

The fear I have is that a guy like Diogu suffer all the same problems that Dunleavy had suffered from. Not being fast enough for small forward and not being physical, strong enough for power forward. Dun is a guy that can create his own shot, but what use is it if he is unable to pound his way inside or squeeze between the tight spaces the defense allows? Unless Diogu is a straight up power forward and same with these other 6'8 guys with a leading edge over their competition in strength + athleticism + skill, I don't really see them as being effective starters. For any lottery pick you'd hope they'd be a future starter and not a role player.

 

Udonis Haslem is an effective starter-and he doesn't have Diogu's skills. The whole point with Diogu is that he has quickness and power,skills and size. In real life he can eat up some of those "high upside" marshmellows,who may be an inch or two taller but never play BIG. Diogu has the tools to matchup well with most forwards in the NBA. Ike probably would find Duncan or KG difficult-but we won't be finding anyone able to shut down an MVP-and we don't have anyone who plays defensive F better than Diogu now