Is Collins demoted?

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Reep, Feb 8, 2019.

  1. BonesJones

    BonesJones YouTube - TrueBlazerFan

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    I think it's just a young player having shaky confidence, not like Meyers.
     
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  2. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    Curious why Jamal Murray is on that list, ha ha. As you already brought up I wonder how Zach would do starting and having plays run for him without the pressure of having to help his team win games like John Collins and Lauri Markkanen have?
     
  3. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Well-Known Member

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    That list is very random lol. As in it was just names that came to my head. I'm not sure what Murray had to do with it either heh.
    I feel like the pro's for Zach is that being like the 8th option most of the looks he gets are pretty clean, so he should be fairly efficient. He obviously doesn't get the benefits of being a higher priority though. I think the most intriguing part of his game (at least on offense) is his post moves, he seems to have really good footwork down there, wonder how he would do if he had more chances down there.
     
  4. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    The pressure part is a huge factor though. John Collins knows he can shoot 20 times in a game and he won't get pulled if he has a cold shooting night. His shots are just shots though, they don't really have any meaning. Zach is playing on a team that is in the upper half of the tough west. Every shot he takes has more importance to the outcome of a game. If he misses a couple shots in a row he might not even get back in the game again, especially with 11 players currently deserving minutes. A bad mistake could be the difference between home court advantage and barely making the playoffs. That's gotta be so much tougher on a young player.
     
  5. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Well-Known Member

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    I would like to say I don't watch nearly enough Atlanta games to know what kind of shot selection JCollins has. :) I honestly don't know if he's thinking about that stuff while playing or not. If so at least part of that is on the coach, can't have your players terrified they might make a mistake...
     
  6. James lamphear

    James lamphear Well-Known Member

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    The rebounding will get better when he gets stronger. Right now he just need stay aggressive in the minutes he gets. I like what seen against Utah very aggressive and got cheated on a block against there center that aggressive in needs to bring every game.
     
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  7. oldmangrouch

    oldmangrouch persona non grata

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    As a subjective observer, it looks to me like he goes through spells where he is out-of-sync and frustrated.
     
  8. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Rip Some Lips

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    TBF...To be fair Collins was not even a starter in college and certainly not as a Rookie or year two player. His minutes indicate as such.
    Some of your better defending centers took a few years to develop i.e. Gasol, D Jordan, Noah, Ibaka just a few. It took those guys a few years to really start to put their mark on the game.
    If you watch Z's instinks as a player you can tell he will eventually put it all together and Dames comments about his game is an indicator there is more to Z to come.
     
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  9. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Well-Known Member

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    I hope so, have you ever heard Dame say bad things about one of his teammates? Not saying Dame is wrong but it would be extremely out of character for Dame to say much differently about one of his teammates.
    I think Ibaka is a pretty good comp, I kind of think that is about where I'd put Zach's ceiling at. Good starting PF/C but not really a star.
     
  10. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Rip Some Lips

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    Your right Dame doesnt say bad things about his tmates, but Ive never heard him say that a player could defensive player of the year. I think Dame bench marks all players as to how they stack up in the league.
     
  11. borim69

    borim69 Active Member

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    I think a lot of it has to do with the development. Instead of concentrating on what he does well to get him out on the floor they are trying to concentrate on what he needs a lot of practice on. As was mentioned before he had 1 year in college riding the pine then came out in the playoffs and showed what he could really do. The fact that we know he can come out and get 6 blocks in a game is reason enough for me to give him at least 2 more years.
     
  12. James lamphear

    James lamphear Well-Known Member

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    Last night he good stat line in 18 minutes 7 points 3-3fg 1-2 ft 9 rebs 1assist 2steals 2blocks 2 turnovers 5PF. So besides the fouls and 4 of them doing what he supposed doing protecting rim.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
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  13. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    the problem with that is Maxi Kleber and Dwight Powell are not physical players at all. They are just tall & mobile like Collins. If Deandre Jordan had still been there, Meyers would have played most of the minutes at C that Collins got because Collins still gets overwhelmed and uprooted by physical players

    in other words, Collins is still a situational bench player, not an every-situation bench player. He's still deep into the project phase, which doesn't help a win-now team much. Now, as he matures you would expect him to develop better core strength, which in turn should help him avoid constant foul trouble. But right now, he's just not that good on either end of the floor. Beating on a dead horse, the flaws Collins had were masked much better when he was welded to Ed Davis. He's more exposed this season

    and the other issue is that with Aminu-Harkless-Layman-Hood, the competition for forward minutes is intense enough to knock Collins out of consistent minutes. The only relief valve could be Hood playing some SG
     
  14. Schilly

    Schilly Well-Known Member

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    Remember when players came into the league at 22 and you still gave the 2-3 years to acclimate amdbthen another 2-3 to enter their prime?

    Remember Layman in his 2nd season compared to this season?
     
  15. James lamphear

    James lamphear Well-Known Member

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    Nurk would been on Jordan due to Jordan would have started so Collins would have played against the same players. Collins get in foul trouble due are guards don't play a lick of defense and he cover up for them same as Nurk lately. Yes he has to get stronger and everyone knows that and it will come. But don't take anything away from the kid in 15 minutes he had a decent game. Plus if Stotts allow to hedge some off screens instead waiting under the basket for player coming at them probably would prevent a lot of fouling.
     
  16. Jon

    Jon mr. 300

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    IMO, Collins needs an Ed Davis type player next to him to be successful. look at last year, dude became a beast. now they pair him with meyers and he is regressing. fouling all the time cause he is the only one to have to defend the rim, cause meyers cant.
     
  17. twobullz

    twobullz Active Member

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    What is your excuse for the last couple games when Zach has not done much. He has not been playing with Meyers and is still making all the dumb fouls. Also dude needs to learn to finish. Last couple games he has had easy layin's at the hoop and has blown them.
     
  18. Reep

    Reep Well-Known Member

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    He had a decent game, but is still getting rebounds ripped away from him by guards. He will be solid. My fear is that the team may expect too much from him at this time, with his limited strength and it may hurt him psychologically down the road. Almost wonder if it would be better to slow him down a bit.

    At this point it doesn't really matter as it will be whoever helps the playoff push the most. I guess if all things were equal, might be better to let Collins sit v. others that are more physically mature at this point--if all else was equal.
     
  19. James lamphear

    James lamphear Well-Known Member

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    Last game he was 3-3 fg and he need finish stronger at the rim. He had 9 boards last night and 3 of was offense rebs. Yea had 5 fouls and our Nurk foul out for covering for other players lack of defense. I thought last night Zach had decent stat line. I think we expect to much from him but you need realize that this offense is for guards and not bigs. The Nurk get some points off pick rolls but also he get a lot points off offense rebounds.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  20. James lamphear

    James lamphear Well-Known Member

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    Yea need stronger but needs strengthen his hands too. But you got your choice between Zach or Meyers. Yes Meyers can shoot the 3 ball better and he is stronger but he is stiff as hell defense that why he has trouble there. Even with Zach foul problems I still like Zach over Meyers just because he still defends better.
     

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