Is It Time to Start Looking for a New Coach?

Discussion in 'Golden State Warriors' started by jason bourne, Dec 12, 2010.

  1. Doctor Kajita

    Doctor Kajita Active Member

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    Yeah, but Bell hasn't gotten as much PT as Vlad. You'd think that Vlad could contribute in some fashion with all the PT he's been given (and sometimes he has), but it's 90% bad...Vlad.
     
  2. AlleyOop

    AlleyOop JBB JustBBall Member

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    At least there's 10% good. Bell's new nickname is Charlie "what the hell?" Bell. The only shots he's taken this year have been airball threes. How his this guy in the league? And how did people convince me that he would be a solid defender and back-up PG? Dude is putting shame back in the game. I'd pull 40+ year old Mookie Blaylock off the golf course right now over Charlie Bell.
     
  3. jason bourne

    jason bourne JBB JustBBall Member

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    What holes are you talking about besides Monta?

    Here's the thing, and you can disagree, but this team is still a run and gun team and transition team. Our offense doesn't do as well when they have to slow it down in the name of defense. In other words, we get the defensive rebound first and start the offense from that point. Second, we have the guards and a forward play the passing lanes at all times and play a pressing type defense. Monta Ellis is a premier guard in this type of game, so I'm not willing to give him up. I'm willing to give up the perimeter in the name of blocking out and getting the defensive board if they miss. If a team can force us to change our game on the glass, then we'll be forced to defend the perimeter. At this point, I rather see Smart focus on getting the offense back and getting a chance to win games. If he can't do that, then he should be on the way out.

    The other thing is the Warriors will have an easy schedule after the holidays. We're not that far out of the eight seed and need to make a run during this time. The tough thing is it's hard to gauge how good the current team is as constructed. We need to get Curry and Lee healthy again. Monta will have to improve his 'D' if the other team is getting the boards and getting more shots. No question Monta gives up too many points. I rather have someone like Gerald Wallace for these times. He can plug the holes on defense on the perimeter as well as clean glass and start the break. I'm willing to deal AB and someone else besides our big 3 in order to get Wallace.
     
  4. Run BJM

    Run BJM Heavy lies the crown. Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Agree that this team is still very much a fast break team. It will take a while to break it down and re-build it into a half court squad. Seems like Lacob's vision is a Celtics type of team that is big, tough, rebounds well, defends, etc. Hes never included Beans in any discussion about the future and right now the center spot is probably our biggest issue IMO. Since Lee and Curry are locked in as core players we really need guys around them who can defend. They're both awful and don't appear to be getting much better any time soon although they're both also intelligent and IMO quite capable of playing a good team-defense scheme. Since Lou has come back it seems like at times our defense has been at its best of the entire season when Lou and Gadzuric are on the floor together. Lou's rotations on defense have really impressed me and his man defense is solid even though hes somewhat undersized. He understands the concept of doing your work early as well- something Biedrins has yet to get a grasp on (see: Milicic, Darko 12/14/10). Gadz is a big oaf but he takes up space and plays with a bit of physicality.

    I'm dying to get a big, defensive minded C in here to anchor the defense. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to get a Gerald Wallace, Andre Iguodala, or any other big, athletic perimeter defender. But to me the number one need is a big space eater who a) doesn't get pushed around on defense, b) clogs the paint thus keeping would-be penetrators out, c) has a little bit of shotblocking presence. Doesn't need to be Ronny Turiaf leading the league in blocks per 48 mins but a guy who can make guys think twice about coming in the paint by virtue of not only raw shotblocking ability but also good size. Don't need a 10 rpg guy, don't need a 14+ ppg guy. Anything like that is gravy. Andris is just playing very poorly right now. Outside of rebounding hes not doing anything to help the team. Hes playing soft, unaggressive, poor offense, poor defense, no shotblocking presence, fouls way too much on stupid plays.

    I think if we continue to have a horrid record into February Lacob tries to dump Andris for cap space. Doubt Monta yields a good quality C and like I've said a million times there are some solid options in FA this offseason. With Lee, Lou, Ekpe, Gadz, BW, Vlad we can get by the last couple months of the season since we'll be tanking anyway.

    BTW Beans is out today and I hope Ekpe gets a lot of minutes. Really want to see what we have with him and let him get some burn. Would be awesome if he turns out like a Taj Gibson and we know we have a great reserve PF/C to bolster the bench for the foreseeable future.

    Since I'm somewhat talking about it already, what do you guys think of signing Yao? Dude's career is in limbo and hes an FA this offseason. I believe hes a UFA in fact. Would you sign him to a 3 year deal risking that he rarely plays and even if he does remain healthy you restrict him to 15-20 mpg in the regular season? Wonder if 5 mil/year over 3 years gets it done and leaves us a decent chunk of change to sign another C or a swingman.
     
  5. CohanHater

    CohanHater JBB JustBBall Member

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    The holes I'm referring to are the fact that there's nobody on the team that can get to the line, there's nobody on the team that can really take anyone on the post, even if they get to the line, there's nobody that can shoot free throws, there's no real strength at the guard position, the front line isn't really made to play defense, should I keep going? There's no offense coming off the bench, there's no real defense coming off the bench. Even if you call it a transition running team, with the off-season moves, it's not even as good as it was doing that. I do think that many of the pieces, if put into a role other than the one they're in right now, would make for a nice piece. IMO, your core right now are Curry and Lee. D Wright is a nice piece as well. Not sure what Udoh can do, and I like Amundson in his current role.

    I think you need to find a 2 or a 3 that can defend and slash (get to the line). And an athletic 3 that's a bit bigger than defend in the post (because Lee can't) and that can play in the post. A 5 that can run the floor and play the pick-roll and defend the hoop. D.Wright is a nice 6th man, Amundson is a good hustle guy, then you need to fill in the backup 1 with a guy that is a facilitator and defender and a backup 2 that's strengths are the weaknesses of the 2 you bring in.

    My point was that this is not a playoff team. Not even close. I don't care what system you are running. The one thing this team has, however, is trading pieces. Whether it's young talent, trade exceptions, or expiring contracts. So, like I've said so many times before, my expectations are about developing the youth and staying healthy this year. I think the team should be able to bring in different looks in off the bench. But that's the type of basketball that I think wins.

    Obviously, there are a million ways to construct a team, and chemistry matters as well. But this team is so unbalanced that if I look at it in any other way than a transition to a much different end-state, then the frustration will set in. So I have hope that they will completely re-shape this team.
     
  6. AlleyOop

    AlleyOop JBB JustBBall Member

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    It was announced today that Yao is out for the year with a stress fracture in his ankle. I wouldn't be surprised if he soon announces his retirement. I"m pretty sure he was considering retirement with the foot fractures/problems, and now the ankle... perhaps from a geometry/physics standpoint, his skeleton is just not designed to be lumbering up and down the court all day. That's a lot of torque to be putting on those small feet/ankle bones...

    I don't know if he'll ever play again, but if he does... there's no way I could take a chance on him, even at $5 mils per... that's $5 mils you could give to a guy that at least you KNOW he'll have a decent chance of being healthy.

    The thing with this team is that, if they're going to continue to try to play up-tempo, there aren't a ton of centers that would fit their style. I always liked Tyson Chandler... People said he was a bust, but even in year two he averaged 9pts / 7reb / 53%FG in 24 minutes, playing 75 games. From there, he had a few ups and downs, but don't forget in New Orleans he had a year where he averaged 12 and 12. THen he had a few injury problems. But a tall guy like that, kinda like Beans, except with some toughness... I like that. He's having a very nice year for Dallas right now.

    BTW, you mention Darko... damn but didn't he look impressive. Only 25 minutes a game, and he's averaging 10pts, 6reb, 2 assists, and is 2nd in the league in blocks! at 2.6bpg.

    What Centers could we bring in that will really be an upgrade over Beans... Who is a realistic possibility of getting?

    I really liked JaVale McGee in summer league,. But now it's too late. Looks like he's blowing up in Washington. He's getting 12ppg, 8rpg, and 5th in blocks at 2.3bpg. Dude seems like he can dunk from half court.

    Roy Hibbert is tearing it up in Indy, but he's probably off limits... 14ppg/8rpg/2bpg

    Could we somehow pry Emeka Okeafor away from NO? He's making $11.4 mils. But 9.5ppg/9.2rpg/1.8bpg on 55%FG... Similar $$ to Beans, similar numbers, but he plays defense...

    I wonder if GS could sneak DeAndre Jordan away from the Clips... nothing too exciting right now at 6ppg/6rpg/1.3 bpg, but 66%FG, and he's young and big and athletic, and the clips have Kaman, and also just seem confused in general...

    Could we make a blockbuster and lure away a guy like Marc Gasol? The Griz have a sub .500 record, and Gasol seems to have regressed a bit statistically. His numbers are down a bit... down 3ppg, down 2rpg, at 11.5ppg, 7.4rpg, 1.4bpg... Man wouldn't that be fun to have Lee/Gasol in the paint together...

    GS has some nice trade pieces... Biedrins is still thought of as a value in the league... but he has to pick his game up a bit to get back to where he was... we all know how he has made 0% improvement on stupid fouls and defense. We all know how he used to be one of the best shot blockers in the league, now he's one of the weaker shot blockers... his FTs are atrocious... but he's still got upside...
     
  7. Run BJM

    Run BJM Heavy lies the crown. Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Yeah I posed the question based on Yao's injury status. He could be available this offseason if we make an aggressive bid. Depending on how the market plays out and what team doctors think I'd take that risk.

    I'd love to get Gasol or Chandler but I think both of their respective clubs pay to keep them. A guy I'm extremely interested in is Kendrick Perkins. Hes a UFA this offseason I believe, coming off an injury and I don't know Boston's cap situation but I would imagine they're well over the lux tax. Keep in mind that Lacob came from Boston and seems to want to re-create our team to play a Boston style of play. Wouldn't be surprised if he makes a play for Perk. Hes one of the best defensive C in the league, Dwight is the only guy who immediately comes to mind who can compare.

    Oden is in the same boat as Yao. Free agent with major injury issues. I'd take a big risk on him as well.
     
  8. CohanHater

    CohanHater JBB JustBBall Member

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    Perkins is an interesting option. Hadn't really thought of him. I wonder if he's going to follow in Ben Wallace's footsteps once he leaves Boston. Everyvody else does so many things well there, that he looks better just because of that. I'd be willing to give it a shot though.
     
  9. i hate the warriors

    i hate the warriors Slingboxing from LONDON

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    Oden and Yao are pretty delicate now...can you imagine what it'd be like once Abdenour got his hands on them? lol. I mean, yeah, their upside is ridiculous, but worst case scenario?? I don't even want to think about it. I like the sounds of Gasol and Chandler, even Perkins. But personally, unless we could get away with giving Oden or Yao peanuts, I wouldn't take the risk on either of those two. I'd much rather get some durable pieces that can hopefully produce for years to come.
     
  10. Run BJM

    Run BJM Heavy lies the crown. Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Like I said before, don't think Mavs or Grizz let Chandler or Gasol go. Boston probably won't let Perkins go if he'll come back at a reasonable price. Just saying with Lacob's Boston connection, perceived lack of confidence in Beans, and Perkins potentially acquireability (yes, I think I just made that word up) I wouldn't be surprised if Lacob goes after Perk hard. But if all those options dry up then is it worth the risk for us to give 15 mil over 3 years to Yao? Or 21 mil over 3 years to Oden? There's a HUGE payoff if they start playing well.

    Przybilla is also a FA and I like him a lot. Nene is another guy who's a FA but I don't really see Denver dumping him even despite the rebuilding. Hes a good piece and has a future. I think they'll pay to keep him.
     
  11. i hate the warriors

    i hate the warriors Slingboxing from LONDON

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    See, when I read that, I think 5 or 7 mil a year for potentially nothing, no way!! but then i think about radmonovic and gadzuric, and i realize that what we have right now isn't a whole lot different. And I'd sure trade either of those two for Oden or Yao if the numbers were the same. I dunno. Idealistically, you'd expect to get a quality player for 7 a year, but you never know....

    But to answer your question, is it worth the risk?? I truly don't know...I guess it would depend on what our alternatives are.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2010
  12. philsmith75

    philsmith75 JBB JustBBall Member

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    Undoubtedly yes.

    Warriors need someone who can get the players to buy into the system and play hard, on both ends of the court.

    Two examples.

    Watch the Spurs, Duncan is no longer a dominant player. Yet even when they run out George Hill, Curly Neal, Matt Bonner and Tiago Splitter, they get Bonner a wide open shot or Splitter a good shot at the rim. Now same guys on defense, those guys pack the middle and force low percentage perimeter shots. How? Good coaching.

    Watch the Jazz. While I love Deron Williams, he's not the reason why. The Jazz on offense get good shots, even with Boozer and Okur out/gone. They made Wesley Matthews look like the $50M man.
     
  13. philsmith75

    philsmith75 JBB JustBBall Member

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    Here's coaching philosophy I'd like to see soon:

    "....[the Orlando] players are willing to buy into Van Gundy’s system. That means you work hard, you stay in front of your man, you don’t gamble for steals, you don’t foul and you do your part in securing defensive rebounds."

    That's the exact opposite of what I see from the Warriors right now. They don't play hard, they don't stay in front, they gamble for steals, they foul and they do not remain committed to defensive rebounding.
     
  14. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    I think it's definitely time to start looking for a new center and shooting guard. We got David Lee and Curry who are good enough IMO. We need somebody like Ellis at shooting guard, but bigger, and has ability to defend and do other things, but finding them athletic is hard... so I'd rather get a Joe Johnson or Brandon Roy type. Our two guard doesn't have to be incredibly quick, but deceptively quick, and not physically weak like the early twenties Dunleavy. I'm really hoping we can maybe steal a dude like Evan Turner or James Harden for a pick. Get them while their value is low and watch them start to do really well when they get the ball in their hands.

    We also need a better center than Biedrins. He is foul prone Tyson Chandler part II and I don't like Tyson Chandler's game. I'm really hoping for a Bogut, Lopez, or Kaman. We're talking a complete center. Basically another taller David Lee that can score with either hand, take some elbow wing jumpers and do other things like pass and play post D. Being a shotblocker isn't as important as changing the shot. Dude can have zero shotblocks as long as he holds his opponents to low fg %.
     
  15. Clif10

    Clif10 Member

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    Larry Brown anyone? Guess he's getting the boot from the Bobcats.
     
  16. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    How many years does he have in him though? I guess we could do the 'hubie brown' thing.
     
  17. Doctor Kajita

    Doctor Kajita Active Member

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    Nooooooo. Our struggling offense would become the equivalent of a 3rd world country starving for clean water.
     

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